When cruising returns, how can the cabins be sanitized properly in such a short period of time?

[ontheweb]

13 hours ago, ontheweb said:

In the words of Ringo Starr, "It ain't easy".

Let me change that as I remembered the real line a few hours after posting that. "It don't come easy."

[Tapi]

I’m an essential worker who continues to travel during this pandemic. I’m spending a few nights a week at hotels. At several, they’ve issued letters stating the extra steps that they are taking to clean the rooms to give guests some peace of mind. But I don’t rely on that and I‘ve started carrying medical grade cleaning supplies with me and I wipe commonly used surfaces down (table tops, counter tops, remote, light switches, toilet handle, etc) as soon as I walk into the room. Long story short, even with the “deeper cleaning” that the hotels are supposedly performing, the wipes are usually black and grimy by the time I’m done cleaning, so I’m positive that the new steps that they have supposedly adopted are not really being enforced by the cleaning crew. And this experience has repeated itself no matter what hotel chain I stay at (most recently Hyatt Regency, Marriott, and Hilton).
 

Long story short, until this pandemic passes (and even going forward from this point), don’t rely on the cruise lines or hotels to clean your room to your standards. The practice of bringing your own wipes or disinfectant, which not too long ago was attributed to germaphobes only, should perhaps becomes a standard practice for all guests. Or maybe cruise lines should clean the rooms as they currently do, but then place in each room a small pack of wipes and sanitizer for guests to use during their stay.  If there’s one thing that I’ve learned during the last few weeks is how poorly cleaned rooms are and that I shouldn’t rely on anybody to keep me safe. 
 

I do feel a bit better on airplanes though because I have witnessed the fogging process and individual seat and tray cleaning process with Matrix 3 cleaner. If anything, it seems like airplanes haven’t been this clean since they came out of the factory. 😂

[happy cruzer]

Maybe there will be robots?

 

https://www.xenex.com/resources/blog/wuhan-coronavirus/

[Elaine5715]

If you live with other people and/or pets, your home will pose as much danger to you as a stateroom unless you are sanitizing your home every day.

I do wonder if this will be the end of those ducks?

As regards to requiring a vaccine,  not going to happen unless port countries require it and then they should require all available vaccines

[compman9]

Whatever spray / disinfectant is required - use it

 

If it drains colour from walls, can't work on wood carpets, curtains, whatever - change them to material that it does work with

 

Get rid of tongs in the windjammer immediately

 

Cruiselines can poke their stupid jingles about washing hands, and hand sanitiser outside the restaurants - CLEAN PROPERLY

[SRF]

Just to stir.....

 

Another option is, there are antibody tests.  These tell if you have been exposed and show an immune response to this virus.

 

So at some point, people can be tested, and can allow people who have had this, and recovered, and are now immune to cruise and travel.

 

I have seen various numbers about how many people may have had SARS-CoV-2, and had mild symptoms and are not reported.  Lowest was that about 80% of those who had it, were very mild and not reported.  Others estimate between 10x and 300x cases exist versus those reported.

 

Even at 10x, that means about 2.5 million people in the US could be cleared to cruise at this point.

[CruisingAlong4Now]

It's difficult to anticipate the future. We can speculate, but not adequately prepare because our crystal balls are still a little foggy from the hand sanitizer we are using.

 

Unless you are immuno-compromised, most people are able to process and protect against many viruses and bacteria. I too wipe the remotes and doorknobs with anti-bacterial wipes. I'm not trying to sanitize the cabin or hotel room, but just generally get it cleaner. I think the remote and the toilet lever are probably the two most disgusting things encountered when travelling.

 

Regarding a vaccine for the current pandemic, many adults don't get vaccines for diseases for which we already have vaccines. Flu, measles, diphtheria, tetanus, shingles, pertussis, pneumonia. And what about those parents who refuse to have their children vaccinated. Do you want your children playing with children who have not been vaccinated against measles? Cruiselines do not require any proof of vaccination against any diseases.  Measles had been eliminated from the US in 2000. However, in 2019 there were more than 1000 cases in the US, generally because the vaccination rates in some areas was below the herd immunity level needed. 

 

Maybe everyone should have a physical exam before cruising, just like summer camp.

[cruisemom42]

On 4/3/2020 at 2:38 AM, compman9 said:

Whatever spray / disinfectant is required - use it

 

If it drains colour from walls, can't work on wood carpets, curtains, whatever - change them to material that it does work with

 

Get rid of tongs in the windjammer immediately

 

Cruiselines can poke their stupid jingles about washing hands, and hand sanitiser outside the restaurants - CLEAN PROPERLY

 

Hotels, ships, planes, buses, etc. can clean things to an excruciating level but it only takes one cough or sneeze from an infected person, with or perhaps without symptoms, to spread the virus.

 

Perhaps people are focused a bit much on rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic. Transmission of COVID-19 is mainly person-to-person via aerosolized droplets containing the virus. While some studies have shown that the virus can survive for limited amounts of time on some surfaces, I don't believe there have been any proven cases of transmission of the virus in this way. Even if possible, it seems unlikely to be a major source of infection.

[SteelersNationVa]

If the cruise industry wants to dock in US ports they will need to change some policies. 
 

#1 hire extra people to sanitize the ship including all passenger rooms and crew areas between voyages. These would be locals who come on the ship

#2 the cruise ships will be required to abide by more US employment laws including OT, time off, and back ground checks

#3 all ships must be inspected by local health department prior to departure 

#4 in return the cruise lines will reserve government backed loans. 
 

without changes I and my family will never get on a ship. An industry relying on just old customers won’t survive. Look at MLB. 

[chengkp75]

28 minutes ago, SteelersNationVa said:

If the cruise industry wants to dock in US ports they will need to change some policies. 
 

#1 hire extra people to sanitize the ship including all passenger rooms and crew areas between voyages. These would be locals who come on the ship  Regardless of how many people you have come on a ship, there is a finite amount of time involved, so "sanitizing" to everyone's satisfaction may not be possible.  Further, the people who would be coming onboard for this work would need a TWIC, which involves cost and an FBI background check, so getting labor could be an issue.

#2 the cruise ships will be required to abide by more US employment laws including OT, time off, and back ground checks  You do realize that once you set foot on the ship, you are no longer in the US, so US law regarding the internal workings of a foreign flag ship are not within the US government's jurisdiction, as found by SCOTUS on many rulings.

#3 all ships must be inspected by local health department prior to departure  You do realize that once you step across the gangway onto a ship in the "navigable waters" of the US, that state or local law no longer applies, for the most part, and this becomes federal jurisdiction.  And, you do know that the federal agency assigned to inspect foreign flag ships, the USPH, has many inspectors who used to be state and local health inspectors, and who have stated that they would prefer to be on the worst cruise ship they've ever inspected over most of the land restaurants in the US? 

#4 in return the cruise lines will reserve government backed loans. 
 

without changes I and my family will never get on a ship. An industry relying on just old customers won’t survive. Look at MLB. 

I am not in favor of most "bail-outs" of any company, and for the most part not the cruise industry, and I feel that the businesses and people indirectly supported by the cruise lines in the US can and should be supported by the federal government, and this will suffice rather than loans to the cruise lines.

 

And, if you say that the cruise ships docking in the US need to follow US labor laws, etc, then they will sue in court that this is discriminatory to them vis a vis foreign flag cargo ships that dock in the US, and that bring in 90% of the consumer goods that the US uses, and they would win, which would preclude nearly every foreign flag cargo ship from entering US ports, and put an even more severe strain on the world economy, even after it starts up again.

Edited April 5, 2020 by chengkp75

[ontheweb]

10 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

I am not in favor of most "bail-outs" of any company, and for the most part not the cruise industry, and I feel that the businesses and people indirectly supported by the cruise lines in the US can and should be supported by the federal government, and this will suffice rather than loans to the cruise lines.

 

And, if you say that the cruise ships docking in the US need to follow US labor laws, etc, then they will sue in court that this is discriminatory to them vis a vis foreign flag cargo ships that dock in the US, and that bring in 90% of the consumer goods that the US uses, and they would win, which would preclude nearly every foreign flag cargo ship from entering US ports, and put an even more severe strain on the world economy, even after it starts up again.

And once again a dose of real world reality ends utopian ideas.

 

edit---I should have also quoted the rest of the post with your comments in red.

Edited April 5, 2020 by ontheweb

[SRF]

It seems some people will never cruise again.  So be it.  More room for the rest.

I am against bail outs in general.  I am not against loans made to assist companies through hard times.

[clo]

3 hours ago, SRF said:

I am not against loans made to assist companies through hard times.

I'm guessing there are and will be enough 'real' US companies that we can loan to.

[navybankerteacher]

24 minutes ago, clo said:

I'm guessing there are and will be enough 'real' US companies that we can loan to.

Don’t forget all the “real” US people who will be needing unemployment compensation, medical treatment, etc. —- in an environment where US tax revenues to provide such assistance will be severely reduced.

 

Yes, this is a cruise web site, but come on folks — there are some serious problems which will require serious expenditures to address before we worry about keeping foreign-owned recreational travel providers in the game.

 

If they go under, they go under.  The ships will still be there - and when/if demand for cruises returns either the current owners - or the new owners- of those ships will put them to use.

[clo]

2 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

Don’t forget all the “real” US people who will be needing unemployment compensation, medical treatment, etc. —- in an environment where US tax revenues to provide such assistance will be severely reduced.

 

Our local news show a line of a couple of hundred cars in line waiting for food from a local charity. We already make an automatic donation to our local food bank. I think we're going to increase it, hopefully temporarily.

[ontheweb]

11 hours ago, clo said:

Our local news show a line of a couple of hundred cars in line waiting for food from a local charity. We already make an automatic donation to our local food bank. I think we're going to increase it, hopefully temporarily.

I "donate" by volunteering at a local food pantry. I wish it was still open, but the Church it is in is basically shut down.

[navybankerteacher]

“Sanitizing” is a great word - suggesting complete cleaning - making a space pretty much free of dirt, germs, etc.   Cabins will be “cleaned” on turn-around days — accept that;  but the staff and time required to “sanitize” them between passengers are simply not available.  If you need them to be “sanitized”, you will need to do some follow-up work yourself.

[SteelersNationVa]

The cruise industry needs to change their mindset to survive. Without changes how they protect passengers & crew from viruses will determine if they are able to keep existing customers & attract new customers. Another outbreak and incompetent response will destroy the industry for decades. 
 

Novel approaches are REQUIRED. Saying that they do not have the staff is total BS.

 

The cruise industry needs new leadership. they need leaders who have experience successfully dealing with Global crises. None of us have the experience to deal with crises of this magnitude. 
 

the customers (especially new customers) have ZERO confidence. Companies can never survive with only existing customers. They die or change spending patterns. Relying on existing customers only is not a way to survive. To much capacity. Too much debt. 
 

So far I have heard nothing that addresses any real change. Can’t believe that no heads have rolled. Mind boggling. 

[chengkp75]

42 minutes ago, SteelersNationVa said:

Novel approaches are REQUIRED. Saying that they do not have the staff is total BS.

So, why don't you run a survey, once the lockdowns are lifted, among minimum wage earners in your area, to see who is willing to spend $125, and submit to an FBI background check, for another minimum wage job.

 

45 minutes ago, SteelersNationVa said:

the customers (especially new customers) have ZERO confidence.

You've done a survey on this?

 

45 minutes ago, SteelersNationVa said:

So far I have heard nothing that addresses any real change. Can’t believe that no heads have rolled. Mind boggling. 

And, how much change have you heard from theme parks and sports complexes?  Mind boggling.

[ColeThornton]

1 hour ago, SteelersNationVa said:

The cruise industry needs new leadership. they need leaders who have experience successfully dealing with Global crises. None of us have the experience to deal with crises of this magnitude. 

 

 

Where exactly do you find CEO's with cruise line experience combined with pandemic experience and what would they do to have a different end result from what they do right now?

 

Thanks.

[happy cruzer]

On 4/2/2020 at 1:40 PM, happy cruzer said:

Maybe there will be robots?

 

https://www.xenex.com/resources/blog/wuhan-coronavirus/

So is anyone else excited about this technology??

[chengkp75]

41 minutes ago, happy cruzer said:

So is anyone else excited about this technology??

Well, it says it needs at least 20 minutes to disinfect a hospital room, so add a bit for all the soft surfaces in a cruise ship cabin, and the motion sensor that shuts it off whenever anyone is nearby, and you've got a passenger cabin that needs to be closed off after cleaning for 30 minutes, times the number of cabins, or multiple rooms in suites.  I think this could be of use when passengers have been isolated in a cabin, but I don't foresee this as a general prophylaxis sanitizing every cabin every cruise.

[happy cruzer]

I thought it says 5 mins a room.  But anyhow, it may be a starting point.  Perhaps this types of "lights" could be installed in each cabin/room, hidden/disabled until turnaround day?

 

and your point of being specifically used in a cabin that had previously had quarantined passengers is excellent, had not thought of it for targeted use.

 

thanks for the response.

[chengkp75]

30 minutes ago, happy cruzer said:

I thought it says 5 mins a room.  But anyhow, it may be a starting point.  Perhaps this types of "lights" could be installed in each cabin/room, hidden/disabled until turnaround day?

 

and your point of being specifically used in a cabin that had previously had quarantined passengers is excellent, had not thought of it for targeted use.

 

thanks for the response.

It says it can kill viruses in 5 minutes, but that is obviously very close to the light source.  I went to the description page for the unit, and in the upper right it says it takes at least 20 minutes to disinfect an entire room.

 

So, you want to put thousands of these on each ship?  And, then, what about public spaces?  How far can each unit reach?  How large an area?  Just looked up the cost:  $100k per unit.  Gonna make cruising real pricey.

[happy cruzer]

You are quite right that the exact model is not designed for cruises.  I did notice that one hotel seems to be a customer.  The technology probably could be adapted to many uses and since it will take care of most viruses including those yet to arrive it looks very interesting.  Would even love to see a personal, portable device for individuals.  I am just an old retired designer :0 dreaming of possibilities.  You are in the real world, thanks for sharing.