NSW Police has ordered Pacific Explorer to leave Sydney!!

[Pushka]

2 minutes ago, Aus Traveller said:

In the article I read, they mentioned Naval personnel going by helicopter to the ships to check out the crew. Maybe that indicates ships at sea.

Yes, the PM did just say "at sea" 

[The_Big_M]

11 minutes ago, Chiliburn said:

So if it was in the international maritime court ,they wouldn’t care about the crews welfare?

 

There is no "international maritime court".

 

And any dispute about NSW Police handling in an Australian port would be a domestic matter, hence Australian courts. 

 

If you go beyond that, that's into human rights, the UN and international tribunals but unlikely to even look at smaller issues like this, even if it fell under their jurisdiction (but it would have to be significantly worse than just refused continued access in a port).

[megsie]

The  NSW Police Commissioner is  the State Emergency Operations Controller as appointed by the NSW Government recently.

Also posted an article I read earlier today but as I can see on tv atm an unfolding story with police attending Ruby Princess.

 

Edited April 2, 2020 by megsie

[MMDown Under]

The problem is there are 9,000 crew on these ships.  If these people all get ill, Australia's medical would crash.  Australia is already doing modelling of best practice to handle Australians in our existing medical system, if the ***** hits the fan, with too many ill people.  That is why the Government is combining Private and Public Hospitals and staffing, to best manage handling the situation of high volume, trying not to be overwhelmed.  When Intensive Care gets overwhelmed, people die!

I don't like the cruise industry shifting their responsibility of looking after their own staff on to our State and Federal Governments.  Have they offered to pay?  Australia is already taking off ill crew to care for them.  Do they want to stay so long Australia has to change its focus from looking after Australians to looking after foreign ships crew - that is not fair to Australians.  Australians are already paying a high price with the majority of people tested positive being from cruise ships (and people from overseas, inc returning Aussies).  Australia did close its borders to shipping for a period which seems to have been ignored.

Edited April 2, 2020 by MMDown Under

[Blackduck59]

21 minutes ago, The_Big_M said:

 

And any dispute about NSW Police handling in an Australian port would be a domestic matter, hence Australian courts. 

 

 This is what I was talking about, unless the commissioner is enforcing a court order he is out of bounds. Making a blanket declaration without knowledge or support of Crown Counsel is a Bad idea. Or is NSW under a state of marshall law where the courts are suspended?

That being said Pushka is under the impression that the RAN is now involved.

[Docker123]

and ... Carnival is incorporated in Panama.

 

 

[VK3DQ]

13 minutes ago, MMDown Under said:

The problem is there are 9,000 crew on these ships.  If these people all get ill, Australia's medical would crash.  Australia is already doing modelling of best practice to handle Australians in our existing medical system, if the ***** hits the fan, with too many ill people.  That is why the Government is combining Private and Public Hospitals and staffing, to best manage handling the situation of high volume, trying not to be overwhelmed.  When Intensive Care gets overwhelmed, people die!

I don't like the cruise industry shifting their responsibility of looking after their own staff on to our State and Federal Governments.  Have they offered to pay?  Australia is already taking off ill crew to care for them.  Do they want to stay so long Australia has to change its focus from looking after Australians to looking after foreign ships crew - that is not fair to Australians.  Australians are already paying a high price with the majority of people tested positive being from cruise ships (and people from overseas, inc returning Aussies).  

 

The issues of FOC and Multinational crews is going to close down cruising in Australia for the foreseeable future, ,,, I dont see an answer , Australia is not going to allow :"Foreign" ships to operate in its waters

 

 

Regards

John

[MMDown Under]

1 minute ago, VK3DQ said:

 

The issues of FOC and Multinational crews is going to close down cruising in Australia for the foreseeable future, ,,, I dont see an answer , Australia is not going to allow :"Foreign" ships to operate in its waters

 

Maybe small local cruise ships will flourish whilst Australians choose to mix and match more expensive cruising less often with land travel on our door step.  We are really blessed with travel opportunities, via airlines (which are not long haul either)- SE Asia, PNG, South Pacific Islands, Outback Australia, driving around the block, etc. 

 

 

Regards

John

 

[Blackduck59]

2 minutes ago, VK3DQ said:

 

The issues of FOC and Multinational crews is going to close down cruising in Australia for the foreseeable future, ,,, I don't see an answer , Australia is not going to allow :"Foreign" ships to operate in its waters

Regards

John

 

This I do not see, Container ships, tankers and ore carriers all have foreign crews. There is no way that they will ditch a multi-million dollar enterprise because of foreign crew members. There are thousands of Australian jobs at stake. Just like Vancouver Canada, Seattle Washington and the fair weather ports in Florida who are happy to take the money but close the door when there is an issue. Australia and all the other countries who find value in the Cruise industry as part of their economy; will open for business as soon as possible.

[Pushka]

8 minutes ago, Blackduck59 said:

 

This I do not see, Container ships, tankers and ore carriers all have foreign crews. There is no way that they will ditch a multi-million dollar enterprise because of foreign crew members. There are thousands of Australian jobs at stake. Just like Vancouver Canada, Seattle Washington and the fair weather ports in Florida who are happy to take the money but close the door when there is an issue. Australia and all the other countries who find value in the Cruise industry as part of their economy; will open for business as soon as possible.

The difference being that these ships are bringing much needed goods into Australia and out again. Medical supplies, tools, equipment, foods etc. Cruises bring in local money but not to the extent our export market does. That is our entire economy. You don't have to do a cruise to enjoy Australia and land based tourism will be the go to for a while. The main people making money from cruises in Australia is most certainly not Australia but the cruiseline companies and that profit doesn't stay here. 
 

Australia can well afford to go very slow on cruises for a while and not suffer. 

Edited April 2, 2020 by Pushka

[megsie]

Maybe the demand for cruising  will not be there for a long time. The industry will need to rebuild the confidence of the people. 

And maybe the spokesman for P&O would be better to continue negotiations rather than posting on YouTube. RC have not reacted that way.

 I would have a guess that the locals would not be happy with a semipermanent cruise ship in their suburb as they have raised complaints in the past.

Edited April 2, 2020 by megsie

[Chiliburn]

1 hour ago, The_Big_M said:

 

There is no "international maritime court".

 

And any dispute about NSW Police handling in an Australian port would be a domestic matter, hence Australian courts. 

 

If you go beyond that, that's into human rights, the UN and international tribunals but unlikely to even look at smaller issues like this, even if it fell under their jurisdiction (but it would have to be significantly worse than just refused continued access in a port).

Well I sure the cruise lines have better legal advisors than you.

 

 I should listen to my own advice and ignore you.

[MMDown Under]

3 minutes ago, Chiliburn said:

Well I sure the cruise lines have better legal advisors than you.

 

 I should listen to my own advice and ignore you.

The voice of the people will determine the viability of the cruise industry in Australia, not legal advisors.  

People, like me, are scared about when this virus is going to finish, and when they are going to develop a vaccine.  When, at this stage, is an unknown.  The latest restriction was 90 days!!, when I volunteered to self quarantine, it was a fortnight!!  Now I knew a fortnight wasn't going to happened, but I never dreamt, in my wildest dreams, 90 days.  Like many people on this thread I want to cruise again, but I'm hoping for 2021!

[Chiliburn]

1 minute ago, MMDown Under said:

The voice of the people will determine the viability of the cruise industry in Australia, not legal advisors.  

People, like me, are scared about when this virus is going to finish, and when they are going to develop a vaccine.  When, at this stage, is an unknown.  The latest restriction was 90 days!!, when I volunteered to self quarantine, it was a fortnight!!  Now I knew a fortnight wasn't going to happened, but I never dreamt, in my wildest dreams, 90 days.  Like many people on this thread I want to cruise again, but I'm hoping for 2021!

I agree,I want a cruise again.

And we should stick by the lovely crew on these ships.

They do a fabulous job usually with a smile and we are just going #hit on them.

 

 I think in hindsight the police minister will be a unpopular man

 

[woodscruise]

One thing to remember the travel industry is in trouble at the moment, and if the NSW/Australian governments come down heavy on the cruise sector, they could easy say good bye to the Australia / New Zealand area, as we are a long way from the rest of the world. If something like this happens again, and they don't have to come down here, they could easy relocate there assets to other areas quickly rather than the 14-20 days to relocate to other areas.

Also don't forget the economical benefits that they bring to the economy.

 

 

[Aus Traveller]

15 minutes ago, MMDown Under said:

The voice of the people will determine the viability of the cruise industry in Australia, not legal advisors.  

People, like me, are scared about when this virus is going to finish, and when they are going to develop a vaccine.  When, at this stage, is an unknown.  The latest restriction was 90 days!!, when I volunteered to self quarantine, it was a fortnight!!  Now I knew a fortnight wasn't going to happened, but I never dreamt, in my wildest dreams, 90 days.  Like many people on this thread I want to cruise again, but I'm hoping for 2021!

Our daughter told me on 13th March that she and her family were going to self-isolate, mainly because of her husband's vulnerability to any virus. I asked her how long she was thinking of. She didn't know. I asked, weeks, months?? Didn't know. I suggested that if she was going to self-isolate she had to be thinking of three months and possibly six.

 

Yes, I was thinking of six months and I still feel that that will be the likely duration (if we are lucky). I still believe I am an optimist. 😁

[Aus Traveller]

12 minutes ago, Chiliburn said:

I agree,I want a cruise again.

And we should stick by the lovely crew on these ships.

They do a fabulous job usually with a smile and we are just going #hit on them.

 

 I think in hindsight the police minister will be a unpopular man

I definitely want to cruise again, and again and again. I will be ready to go when cruising starts up and it is safe to do so.

 

I suspect the Police Commissioner doesn't care about his popularity or lack of it.

[lyndarra]

12 minutes ago, Chiliburn said:

I agree,I want a cruise again.

And we should stick by the lovely crew on these ships.

They do a fabulous job usually with a smile and we are just going #hit on them.

 

 

 

A good point raised there. The crew have looked after many of us in the past. Is it not our turn to look after them? I'm sure there would be future benefits for Australians cruisers in the future if we did.

[Pushka]

4 minutes ago, lyndarra said:

A good point raised there. The crew have looked after many of us in the past. Is it not our turn to look after them? I'm sure there would be future benefits for Australians cruisers in the future if we did.

In getting the crew checked for health, treating those medically who need it, then repatriating them home and the ships returned to NH base then how is this not taking care of them as opposed to them just sitting aimlessly at sea wondering who might get sick? 

[lyndarra]

1 minute ago, Pushka said:

In getting the crew checked for health, treating those medically who need it, then repatriating them home and the ships returned to NH base then how is this not taking care of them as opposed to them just sitting aimlessly at sea wondering who might get sick? 

WT? That is exactly what was implied in my  post. Where did I say, or even infer, they should be "sitting aimlessly at sea"?

[mr walker]

12 minutes ago, Aus Traveller said:

I suspect the Police Commissioner doesn't care about his popularity or lack of it.

 

I'm sure he is not in it for the likes. Interestingly I suspect that his popularity would have risen with this directive. Many in the community are not cruise fanatics like many of us, and view cruiseships as an enemy at this time.

[Pushka]

4 minutes ago, lyndarra said:

WT? That is exactly what was implied in my  post. Where did I say, or even infer, they should be "sitting aimlessly at sea"?

It is where they are now. At anchor. No plan. How is that looking after them? 

Edited April 2, 2020 by Pushka

[Chiliburn]

2 minutes ago, Pushka said:

It is where they are now. At anchor. No plan. How is that looking after them? 

I think in a evolving situation they would like to stay near good health care.

 If the ships were to leave for a long journey,in a week or two .infections could arise.

 

We aren’t talking about boat people or illegal fishing boats.These are multinational companies with good advice.

[Chiliburn]

10 minutes ago, mr walker said:

 

I'm sure he is not in it for the likes. Interestingly I suspect that his popularity would have risen with this directive. Many in the community are not cruise fanatics like many of us, and view cruiseships as an enemy at this time.

He would be just doing what he is told mr Walker.

He will be pensioned off and problems solved.

[Blackduck59]

Getting the Crews properly checked is a great first step. These people need some assistance at this time. Meanwhile I doubt there is No Plan. I'm guessing they are laying off to bide some time. The ship will require crew as long as they are at anchor, burning fuel etc. Some of these ships are probably going to be homeported in Australia when cruising restarts. If the crew is healthy then all is well they can go about sanitizing everything, painting all those ugly rust stains, refinishing that teak railing etc. etc. etc. Can't just send everyone home, besides your airports are closed as are those in their home country. And wherever the ship is flagged (If that is where you are suggesting they go) is nowhere near the homes of the crew. I'm thinking most of them are closer to home right there at anchor outside the port of Sydney.