NSW Police has ordered Pacific Explorer to leave Sydney!!

[icat2000]

4 hours ago, MMDown Under said:

I suspect most people are upset at the large number of people infected with the virus in Australia, from cruise ships.  The majority of people infected in Australia are because of cruise ships and people returning from overseas (including Aussies returning).  People are dying in Australia as a result of cruise ships.  These are the facts.  I don't think it is unreasonable that people were against crew disembarking. Aust is letting all ill crew infected with the virus to disembark for medical attention. 

 

Added that large numbers of Australians have lost their jobs due to COVID19 have had their lives put on hold with tight restrictions on what you can and cannot do at the moment. Added that people have died and/or serious ill. Its understandable why they are against letting people off the ship. 

 

Is Christmas Island not an option. Deal with it ship by ship starting with the Ruby Princess as that seems like the most serious one. They could fly medical equipment up? The ones who were not infected they could fly home from there??

Edited April 3, 2020 by icat2000

[mr walker]

29 minutes ago, The_Big_M said:

 

An interesting, though absurd assessment by you. Though perhaps understandable given where your posts have made clear of your political preferences, and the view some of those have of any criticism towards their party.

 

However, he is making decisions that substantially affect people's lives so I believe the comments were warranted, and he certainly should not be immune to criticism as you imply.

If you wish to criticize the laws & instructions/policies the police are enforcing, go your hardest. But you are criticizing personally the man sworn to enforce the laws for doing his job, insinuating for his own purposes. 

[Aus Traveller]

4 minutes ago, icat2000 said:

Added that large numbers of Australians have lost their jobs due to COVID19 have had their lives put on hold with tight restrictions on what you can and cannot do at the moment. Added that people have died and/or serious ill. Its understandable why they are against letting people off the ship. 

 

Is Christmas Island not an option. Deal with it ship by ship starting with the Ruby Princess as that seems like the most serious one. They could fly medical equipment up? The ones who were not infected they could fly home from there??

I don't Christmas Island would be viable for quarantine of a large group. Apparently the airstrip can take only medium size planes. When the people were quarantined there in February, they were flown to Learmonth, then on smaller planes to Christmas Is. However, the disused mining camp at Howard NT would be OK. The people who had been quarantined there have all left.

[icat2000]

I wonder if this Princess employee will regret this. Probably not the most helpful video to post when Princess is trying to negotiate getting crew off the ships. 

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8182487/Princess-Cruises-employee-films-coronavirus-parody-video-board.html

[rickays]

43 minutes ago, icat2000 said:

I wonder if this Princess employee will regret this. Probably not the most helpful video to post when Princess is trying to negotiate getting crew off the ships. 

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8182487/Princess-Cruises-employee-films-coronavirus-parody-video-board.html

 

For the people who may think this inappropriate at this time here is a quote from him after receiving a negative post:

 

Rhys William Clayton  I’m sorry that you feel this way. I have friends and family around the world all trapped in isolation also. This video was meant to make people laugh and out of the thousands of positive responses I’ve only had 3 negative. I am always checking on my loved ones around the world and just wanted to make people smile in this unusual, scary time. I apologise again for any offence caused.

[The_Big_M]

2 hours ago, mr walker said:

If you wish to criticize the laws & instructions/policies the police are enforcing, go your hardest. But you are criticizing personally the man sworn to enforce the laws for doing his job, insinuating for his own purposes. 

 

His job has never been to evict cruise ships from domestic ports. 

 

Nor am I insinuating his actions are for this own purposes. My point was that his action taken here - and further how he has presented them - was not in line with serving and for the good of people in general but appear to be driven to satisfy his political masters. And no, I do not agree it his job to deflect, nor show favour to, as he has been doing in this incident so far. 

[DiamondFour]

1 hour ago, The_Big_M said:

 

His job has never been to evict cruise ships from domestic ports. 

 

Nor am I insinuating his actions are for this own purposes. My point was that his action taken here - and further how he has presented them - was not in line with serving and for the good of people in general but appear to be driven to satisfy his political masters. And no, I do not agree it his job to deflect, nor show favour to, as he has been doing in this incident so far. 

It may well be out of his jurisdiction or level of authority to order a ship to leave our ports. His actions were disgraceful none the less and he has brought shame onto the entire police force. Western Australia appears to be leaving it to Border Force to deal with which is a different approach and a better way to handle it politically to hand it over to the Federal government to deal with. This dithering commissioner is nothing more than a political puppet out to exact revenge on the cruise industry and distract from the mess NSW Health made over their negligent decision to allow sick passengers into the population.

[ilikeanswers]

In times of epidemics you have to be utilitarian over empathetic. The fact is we have limited supplies and since the people on these ships are not Australian citizens or residents it means we can make them someone elses responsibility. It is harsh to tell them to leave but better than having to decide whether to pull out a ventilator from an 80yr old patient to give to someone younger because their odds of survival are higher.

[MMDown Under]

34 minutes ago, ilikeanswers said:

In times of epidemics you have to be utilitarian over empathetic. The fact is we have limited supplies and since the people on these ships are not Australian citizens or residents it means we can make them someone elses responsibility. It is harsh to tell them to leave but better than having to decide whether to pull out a ventilator from an 80yr old patient to give to someone younger because their odds of survival are higher.

Well said.  I'm less sympathetic to cruise lines which choose to sail under Flags of Convenience, yet, when in trouble, want to take advantage of countries which operate under the accepted rule of law.  

[DiamondFour]

8 hours ago, ilikeanswers said:

In times of epidemics you have to be utilitarian over empathetic. The fact is we have limited supplies and since the people on these ships are not Australian citizens or residents it means we can make them someone elses responsibility. It is harsh to tell them to leave but better than having to decide whether to pull out a ventilator from an 80yr old patient to give to someone younger because their odds of survival are higher.

Supplies were short in WWII yet the allied and enemy forces still took prisoners, fed them and looked after them.

 

You have to remember there are Australian citizens overseas as well. Some diplomatic, some scientific, some educational, some on oil rigs, the list goes on. The question to you is how would you like foreign governments to treat our citizens in a time of need when we are casting aside others.

 

The Pacific Explorer incident could have been better managed. They were not a burden to our country. If the government had given the ship a dock but no one step ashore order and directed all crew to occupy individual passenger cabins and isolate for over two weeks and keep disinfecting the ship you could have had a green zone where you were absolutely sure there were no viruses. Moving on the company had offered the ship to our government to use as a medical centre for non coronavirus treatment centres.

 

This is just poor handling, racist views and disgraceful actions by our government and leaders. They say "we are all in this together", the only way we are going to get though this is if we all pull together, treat everyone equally then we surely will see the light at the other side. Just remember once cleared the crew on that ship could have been a vital asset to helping us and helping our services once it was deemed they were 100% free of the virus.

[The_Big_M]

8 hours ago, ilikeanswers said:

In times of epidemics you have to be utilitarian over empathetic. The fact is we have limited supplies and since the people on these ships are not Australian citizens or residents it means we can make them someone elses responsibility. It is harsh to tell them to leave but better than having to decide whether to pull out a ventilator from an 80yr old patient to give to someone younger because their odds of survival are higher.

 

What supplies are at issue? We keep being told we have ample stocks of general supplies including food.

 

The only issue is hospital facilities, but with the lockdown in effect there is no prediction that limits will be exceeded, and the majority of crew are both healthy and not in a high risk situation needing hospitalisation, so it's really just general provisioning that's required. Thus, there is not expected to be any issue as things stand.

 

Edit: You also praise Germany for doing the same in another post: "Germany too has done a much better job than is given credit, they are even taking in patients from France and Italy. " so it is incongruous to suggest that as a defence when we are only talking about healthy people who can be quarantined, less likely to need medical support, and no issue with supplies generally.

Edited April 3, 2020 by The_Big_M

[The_Big_M]

23 hours ago, mr walker said:

 

It has been clear that in most of your 16,000+ posts that you are the wanabe campaign manager for the Labor party. I do not personally know Mr Fuller, but it is offensive for you to post your comments about him, and certainly says more about you then about him.

I suggest that the Federal & States & Territories governments of both political persuasions are facing many challenges & are working cooperatively together as has never been seen, at least in my lifetime. Mistakes are being made of course, but they are all doing their best in these unprecedented times. Give it a rest!

 

Stay safe all.

 

My assessment has now borne out as correct with confirmation that NSW Health were informed by the ship's doctor that there were 104 acute respiratory infections onboard the ship pre-arrival, some of which had also tested to confirm it was _not_ influenza. NSW Health were aware but in spite of that still gave clearance for all passengers to disembark without waiting for the results of coronavirus testing to come through.

 

How can you justify:

1) his lying to NSW citizens by omitting this, which is against his job to serve the people of NSW, and

2) his casting aspersions against the cruise doctor and captain, which is against his job to enforce the law impartially?

All in apparent aid to protect (and separately create empathy for) the government by deflecting blame on their behalf.

 

It's also sad that you have chosen to use this issue to create a personal attack against me. I guess it can be said - in your words - that says more about you than me.

[ilikeanswers]

1 hour ago, The_Big_M said:

 

What supplies are at issue? We keep being told we have ample stocks of general supplies including food.

 

The only issue is hospital facilities, but with the lockdown in effect there is no prediction that limits will be exceeded, and the majority of crew are both healthy and not in a high risk situation needing hospitalisation, so it's really just general provisioning that's required. Thus, there is not expected to be any issue as things stand.

 

Edit: You also praise Germany for doing the same in another post: "Germany too has done a much better job than is given credit, they are even taking in patients from France and Italy. " so it is incongruous to suggest that as a defence when we are only talking about healthy people who can be quarantined, less likely to need medical support, and no issue with supplies generally.

 

I praised Germany to point out that they have spare ICU beds compared to other European countries that do not have enough.Taking on patients from other countries was emphasising the point that they had the facilities not me saying how generous they are. I don't know the full medical capacity of Australia if the infection spikes, I can only assume that authorities do have some idea of Australia's capacity and therefore lessening potential burden could be a necessity. As long as they can be offloaded I understand why the government wants to do that. Around the world governments are trying to get rid of non citizens and non residents. It is a theme around the world Australia is not unique.

[The_Big_M]

Amongst the other announcements yesterday Scott Morrison described the outlook for medical facilities and coverage as encouraging saying "If we keep doing what we’re doing and we keep doing the work to upgrade our ICU capacity and secure the extra ventilators and all the things we are doing right now, then right now that trajectory is promising."

 

There has been nothing to say we don't have the facilities. Also as said, any extra demand in these cases should be negligible - actual medical cases are already being handled, so this is only about dealing with healthy people. Thus, medical supplies is not any significant issue.

[Aus Traveller]

9 hours ago, MMDown Under said:

Well said.  I'm less sympathetic to cruise lines which choose to sail under Flags of Convenience, yet, when in trouble, want to take advantage of countries which operate under the accepted rule of law.  

BTW P&O sails under the UK flag. Their ships are registered in London.

Edited April 4, 2020 by Aus Traveller

[Aus Traveller]

43 minutes ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

I praised Germany to point out that they have spare ICU beds compared to other European countries that do not have enough.Taking on patients from other countries was emphasising the point that they had the facilities not me saying how generous they are. I don't know the full medical capacity of Australia if the infection spikes, I can only assume that authorities do have some idea of Australia's capacity and therefore lessening potential burden could be a necessity. As long as they can be offloaded I understand why the government wants to do that. Around the world governments are trying to get rid of non citizens and non residents. It is a theme around the world Australia is not unique.

Before this COVID crisis, Australia had 2200 ICU beds, but the government has quickly doubled that capacity and is increasing it still further. Doctors and nurses who are not currently working in the medical system have been asked to return to work.

 

We haven't got to the point where USA has: dentists are being brought in, with the next stage, vets also. At first glance, this might sound surprising, but I am sure they will do a great job. They don't have to consult with patients to determine a diagnosis (probably one of the toughest jobs for a doctor) but they will be treating patients.

[Kiwi Kruzer]

Midday Sat 4 April

Heading to Gladstone

 

[NSWP]

I was staying out of this because in my previous life I met now Commissioner Fuller, albeit 20 yrs ago.  The man is no fool and part of the job description of a NSW Police Officer is 'to protect life and property.' At least he had/has the guts to speak his mind, unlike some of the other blithering idiots who have held the position in the past decades.  I will say no more other than that in my opinion it may be more prudent of the NSW Premier to appoint someone else other than Commissioner Fuller to investigate the whole Ruby Princess incident, i.e. some one suitably qualified to lead such an investigation from interstate or overseas, plenty of contenders.  This may serve to satisfy the stirrers out there in noddyland.

 

I am concerned at some of the aggressive, even nasty debate on here, it was never like this in my 14 yrs as a CC member, let us all take a chill pill.

 

I prefer not to comment further on this matter. Stay safe everyone, it is a jungle out there.

Edited April 4, 2020 by NSWP

[lyndarra]

Agree. We need to chill a little. I had a reminder a day or two ago when I got a CC Yellow Card.

[Blackduck59]

11 minutes ago, lyndarra said:

Agree. We need to chill a little. I had a reminder a day or two ago when I got a CC Yellow Card.

 

Me too, I wonder why some others haven't

[Kiwi Kruzer]

23 minutes ago, NSWP said:

I am concerned at some of the aggressive, even nasty debate on here, it was never like this in my 14 yrs as a CC member, let us all take a chill pill

 

I prefer not to comment further on this matter. Stay safe everyone, it is a jungle out there.

Right on Les 

Our civilisation is entering uncharted waters .

[Aus Traveller]

31 minutes ago, NSWP said:

I was staying out of this because in my previous life I met now Commissioner Fuller, albeit 20 yrs ago.  The man is no fool and part of the job description of a NSW Police Officer is 'to protect life and property.' At least he had/has the guts to speak his mind, unlike some of the other blithering idiots who have held the position in the past decades.  I will say no more other than that in my opinion it may be more prudent of the NSW Premier to appoint someone else other than Commissioner Fuller to investigate the whole Ruby Princess incident, i.e. some one suitably qualified to lead such an investigation from interstate or overseas, plenty of contenders.  This may serve to satisfy the stirrers out there in noddyland.

 

I am concerned at some of the aggressive, even nasty debate on here, it was never like this in my 14 yrs as a CC member, let us all take a chill pill.

 

I prefer not to comment further on this matter. Stay safe everyone, it is a jungle out there.

Les, I understand your point of view, having spent your working life in the Police Force. I agree with your comment that it would be prudent for the Premier to appoint someone other than the Police Commissioner to conduct an investigation, if in fact, there is one now that the email trail has been publicly released.

 

We are all (with the exception of Rod) passionate cruisers. Several of us felt that Commissioner Fuller was not justified in evicting the Pacific Explorer. He might be a good bloke, but I feel there were others ways this could have been handled. None of the P&O ships had cases of COVID. Maybe it is because all (or virtually all) of the passengers are Australians & NZ'ers (unlike the Princess ships) and the virus was not widespread in our community.

[NSWP]

7 minutes ago, Aus Traveller said:

Les, I understand your point of view, having spent your working life in the Police Force. I agree with your comment that it would be prudent for the Premier to appoint someone other than the Police Commissioner to conduct an investigation, if in fact, there is one now that the email trail has been publicly released.

 

We are all (with the exception of Rod) passionate cruisers. Several of us felt that Commissioner Fuller was not justified in evicting the Pacific Explorer. He might be a good bloke, but I feel there were others ways this could have been handled. None of the P&O ships had cases of COVID. Maybe it is because all (or virtually all) of the passengers are Australians & NZ'ers (unlike the Princess ships) and the virus was not widespread in our community.

Thanks for your comments, in hindsight perhaps it would have been more appropriate for the Premier or the Police Minister to utter such words - 'ordering Pacific Explorer away from NSW Coast. ' 

 

Injecting a bit of black humour into the subject...re evicting Pacific Explorer from NSW Coast..perhaps the Commish went on a P&O Straya cruise and he had an unpleasant experience, if so he should have gone on Princess and 'Come Back New.'😁  Have a good day.  

 

PS..I wonder what reception Pacific Explorer will get from the Qld Govt as she is headed for Gladstone. 

 

Edited April 4, 2020 by NSWP

[Aus Traveller]

5 minutes ago, NSWP said:

Thanks for your comments, injecting a bit of black humour into the subject...re evicting Pacific Explorer from NSW Coast..perhaps the Commish went on a P&O Straya cruise and he had an unpleasant experience, if so he should have gone on Princess and 'Come Back New.'😁  Have a good day.   PS Has Pacific Explorer headed up to Qld now? 

I think the Explorer is heading for the seas off Gladstone. I hope the Q'ld government doesn't get tough on the ships and try to get them to leave, but then it might be up to the National Cabinet.

 

Your comment about the Commish maybe going on a P&O cruise - A tour operator friend of ours went on a P&O cruise probably 12 or so years ago. He hated it and called it a "Concretor's Special". Maybe he was seated at a dining table with some tradesmen and wasn't happy. He actually flew home from Noumea, the first port. Whenever we talked about enjoying cruising, or what cruises we were going on next, he would shake his head. He couldn't see the attraction.

Edited April 4, 2020 by Aus Traveller

[NSWP]

5 minutes ago, Aus Traveller said:

I think the Explorer is heading for the seas off Gladstone. I hope the Q'ld government doesn't get tough on the ships and try to get them to leave, but then it might be up to the National Cabinet.

 

Your comment about the Commish maybe going on a P&O cruise - A tour operator friend of ours went on a P&O cruise probably 12 or so years ago. He hated it and called it a "Concretor's Special". Maybe he was seated at a dining table with some tradesmen and wasn't happy. He actually flew home from Noumea, the first port. Whenever we talked about enjoying cruising, or what cruises we were going on next, he would shake his head. He couldn't see the attraction.

Perhaps your friend became infected with 'Boganism' if there is such a disease.🤣  The tradies might have turned up in the MDR in their Stubby shorts, blue Chesty Bonds singlets, K Mart thongs and with their XXXX can in the prescribed Qld State of Origin stubby holder.😁

Edited April 4, 2020 by NSWP