Should Cruise Lines be Offering Deposits back "Without Strings Attached/Coronavirus

[Trevor33]

It is a given that the current Worldwide Coronavirus Pandemic is tragic resulting in over a million having contracted the virus and already many thousands of deaths -All our hearts go out to those affected and their loved ones. Cruise lines like any business are there to make money and all understand this. People are naturally extremely worried that when this has subsided  the thought of going on a cruise will for some be a definite no. Some will delay cruising to another year and some will take up the deals that will no doubt be available and return and cruise straight away. But what about those that have booked and are not now wanting to cruise "Full Stop" in light of recent unexpected events? Should Cruise companies be offering those already booked the option of an IMMEDIATE REFUND of deposit paid without conditions regardless of how far ahead their cruise may be? Several Surveys are showing that a reasonable percentage of previous cruisers will not now be contemplating a cruise regardless of any sweetner a cruise company pay offer - Rightly or wrongly we have all seen the affected cruise ships caught up in the Virus with the Coronavirus passing fast through the ships seemingly regardless of people being isolated in cabins. No one blames the cruise industry for Covid19 but should those that now fear cruising through NO FAULT of their own be given the option of their deposit back. This is an extremely contagious virus we all hope that we dont see the like of it again but it is suggested that it could spike again as a vaccine needs to be discovered and the World all needs to have been innoculated. Should the cruise companies be thinking about their business or the World we all now see ourselves in?

[Trevor33]

It is a given that the current Worldwide Coronavirus Pandemic is tragic resulting in over a million having contracted the virus and already many thousands of deaths -All our hearts go out to those affected and their loved ones. Cruise lines like any business are there to make money and all understand this. People are naturally extremely worried that when this has subsided  the thought of going on a cruise will for some be a definite no. Some will delay cruising to another year and some will take up the deals that will no doubt be available and return and cruise straight away. But what about those that have booked and are not now wanting to cruise "Full Stop" in light of recent unexpected events? Should Cruise companies be offering those already booked the option of an IMMEDIATE REFUND of deposit paid without conditions regardless of how far ahead their cruise may be? Several Surveys are showing that a reasonable percentage of previous cruisers will not now be contemplating a cruise regardless of any sweetner a cruise company pay offer - Rightly or wrongly we have all seen the affected cruise ships caught up in the Virus with the Coronavirus passing fast through the ships seemingly regardless of people being isolated in cabins. No one blames the cruise industry for Covid19 but should those that now fear cruising through NO FAULT of their own be given the option of their deposit back. This is an extremely contagious virus we all hope that we dont see the like of it again but it is suggested that it could spike again as a vaccine needs to be discovered and the World all needs to have been innoculated. Should the cruise companies be thinking about their business or the World we all now see ourselves in?

[Pyrate13]

If you are not beyond final payment date and didn't book with a non-refundable deposit then you can get your deposit back. If you are beyond final payment date then your cruise was likely cancelled and you can get a refund. If you booked non-refundable then that's the chance you chose to take and it's on you. I don't expect my non-refundable back unless they cancel my cruise, and I'm ok with that. I'm responsible for booking that way, not the cruise line. You wanted an opinion, that's mine.

[Essiesmom]

7 minutes ago, Pyrate13 said:

If you are not beyond final payment date and didn't book with a non-refundable deposit then you can get your deposit back. If you are beyond final payment date then your cruise was likely cancelled and you can get a refund. If you booked non-refundable then that's the chance you chose to take and it's on you. I don't expect my non-refundable back unless they cancel my cruise, and I'm ok with that. I'm responsible for booking that way, not the cruise line. You wanted an opinion, that's mine.

This does not apply to those in the UK.  All of their deposits are non-refundable.

But I think the cruise lines should return deposits or full fare on cruises when conditions have been imposed after booking/final payment that would preclude cruising for those guests.  In particular, the over 70 letter.  EM 

[Pyrate13]

If they turn you away for reasons like that then yes, they cancelled you and it's on them to give you your money back. But, if you choose to cancel, then you made the choice knowing your money was non-refundable and that's still on you.

[gerryuk]

52 minutes ago, Pyrate13 said:

If you are not beyond final payment date and didn't book with a non-refundable deposit then you can get your deposit back. If you are beyond final payment date then your cruise was likely cancelled and you can get a refund. If you booked non-refundable then that's the chance you chose to take and it's on you. I don't expect my non-refundable back unless they cancel my cruise, and I'm ok with that. I'm responsible for booking that way, not the cruise line. You wanted an opinion, that's mine.

 

26 minutes ago, Pyrate13 said:

If they turn you away for reasons like that then yes, they cancelled you and it's on them to give you your money back. But, if you choose to cancel, then you made the choice knowing your money was non-refundable and that's still on you.

In normal circumstances, no you should not get your money back. However these are not normal circumstances, and morally speaking the cruise lines should pay all deposits back to those who now, do not want to cruise. They should not expect anybody to go on a cruise in these troubling times, and the cruise lines should do the decent thing. If you pay a deposit today for a cruise in say, September and this virus is still rampent, then no you should not get your deposit back, you knew the risk. If you paid a deposit back in January for a September cruise then the cruise line should give you your deposit back, its just the decent thing to do. 

[Pyrate13]

We'll just have to agree to disagree. Obviously in the UK there is no choice so different scenario, but here in the US you can make a refundable deposit. Anything can happen at any time and if your deposit was non-refundable then that's the chance you took. Gambled and lost. Again, just my opinion. Everyone is welcome to their own.

[leaveitallbehind]

3 hours ago, Trevor33 said:

.....But what about those that have booked and are not now wanting to cruise "Full Stop" in light of recent unexpected events? Should Cruise companies be offering those already booked the option of an IMMEDIATE REFUND of deposit paid without conditions regardless of how far ahead their cruise may be? Several Surveys are showing that a reasonable percentage of previous cruisers will not now be contemplating a cruise regardless of any sweetner a cruise company pay offer  No one blames the cruise industry for Covid19 but should those that now fear cruising through NO FAULT of their own be given the option of their deposit back.....

 

Not sure I completely understand what you are saying.  As you are discussing deposits, Most cruise lines offer an option for a refundable as well as a non-refundable deposit (NRD) with their bookings already that are fully refundable up to final payment.  Those currently booked with a refundable deposit have no $ risk. Are you suggesting that they should waive the NRD policy for currently booked cruises with a NRD and make them all fully refundable?   

 

Most have already relaxed the penalty policy and are allowing the full NRD to be transferred to a new booking. True, that is not an immediate refund, but if you do that, with most lines you can then rebook the new fare as a refundable deposit thus providing the refund flexibility with the new booking.  You can then cancel if desired and receive a full refund.  Many are also extending the deposit period relative to final payment date to provide greater flexibility.

 

And with any new booking being considered, you would have the option to book the cruise with a refundable deposit this eliminating any risk of deposit loss, making your concerns moot.

 

What are the surveys you mention?  IMO as you indicate that it is with reference to future bookings - again, for which you can book with a refundable deposit with no deposit risk- not sure how that relates to current bookings deposits.

 

Not being critical - just confused.

Edited April 3, 2020 by leaveitallbehind

[leaveitallbehind]

Sorry for what in my previous post for the most part is a repetitive post to other's comments.  For some reason when I started my response 10 minutes ago the only post shown was the first one by the OP, to which I was responding.  By the time mine hit the thread all the others were there as well, including the OP's double post.

 

That being said I will qualify that my information was relative to US bookings only.  As to whether or not UK (or other) bookings with a standard NRD policy should be waived to allow for a full refund, as I understand it that is not up to the cruise lines as it is a Country based policy.  If so, the cruise lines hands would be tied, correct?

Edited April 3, 2020 by leaveitallbehind

[Trevor33]

32 minutes ago, leaveitallbehind said:

 

Not sure I completely understand what you are saying.  As you are discussing deposits, Most cruise lines offer an option for a refundable as well as a non-refundable deposit (NRD) with their bookings already that are fully refundable up to final payment.  Those currently booked with a refundable deposit have no $ risk. Are you suggesting that they should waive the NRD policy for currently booked cruises with a NRD and make them all fully refundable?   

 

Most have already relaxed the penalty policy and are allowing the full NRD to be transferred to a new booking. True, that is not an immediate refund, but if you do that, with most lines you can then rebook the new fare as a refundable deposit thus providing the refund flexibility with the new booking.  You can then cancel if desired and receive a full refund.  Many are also extending the deposit period relative to final payment date to provide greater flexibility.

 

And with any new booking being considered, you would have the option to book the cruise with a refundable deposit this eliminating any risk of deposit loss, making your concerns moot.

 

What are the surveys you mention?  IMO as you indicate that it is with reference to future bookings - again, for which you can book with a refundable deposit with no deposit risk- not sure how that relates to current bookings deposits.

 

Not being critical - just confused.

 

32 minutes ago, leaveitallbehind said:

 

Not sure I completely understand what you are saying.  As you are discussing deposits, Most cruise lines offer an option for a refundable as well as a non-refundable deposit (NRD) with their bookings already that are fully refundable up to final payment.  Those currently booked with a refundable deposit have no $ risk. Are you suggesting that they should waive the NRD policy for currently booked cruises with a NRD and make them all fully refundable?   

 

Most have already relaxed the penalty policy and are allowing the full NRD to be transferred to a new booking. True, that is not an immediate refund, but if you do that, with most lines you can then rebook the new fare as a refundable deposit thus providing the refund flexibility with the new booking.  You can then cancel if desired and receive a full refund.  Many are also extending the deposit period relative to final payment date to provide greater flexibility.

 

And with any new booking being considered, you would have the option to book the cruise with a refundable deposit this eliminating any risk of deposit loss, making your concerns moot.

 

What are the surveys you mention?  IMO as you indicate that it is with reference to future bookings - again, for which you can book with a refundable deposit with no deposit risk- not sure how that relates to current bookings deposits.

 

Not being critical - just confused.

 

[Trevor33]

Deposits paid to Cunard/Carnival Uk do not have the option of a refundable or non refundable choice when making a booking. Am I correct from what you say that if booking a Cunard Cruise from the United States that you have an option on booking as to whether your deposit is made to secure the booking on a fully refundable basis or non refundable deposit? It would basically mean that the Booking Conditions for the same Cruise Line are different in the USA to the UK? You update would be greatly appreciated

[leaveitallbehind]

10 minutes ago, Trevor33 said:

Deposits paid to Cunard/Carnival Uk do not have the option of a refundable or non refundable choice when making a booking. Am I correct from what you say that if booking a Cunard Cruise from the United States that you have an option on booking as to whether your deposit is made to secure the booking on a fully refundable basis or non refundable deposit? It would basically mean that the Booking Conditions for the same Cruise Line are different in the USA to the UK? You update would be greatly appreciated

That is exactly what I am suggesting.  They would be booked as NRD's. And it would apply to all cruise line bookings made in the UK.  But the NRD rules in the UK are not at the discretion of the cruise line, but are a result of UK policy as I understand it.  Perhaps one of our UK posters can confirm.

Edited April 3, 2020 by leaveitallbehind

[Trevor33]

Thank you for your reply. As you say you are able in the United states  to book the same Cunard cruise as we can in the uk but due to legislation you are able to book with a refundable deposit whereas we book on a non refundable basis. Ouch it must be time to apply for my Green Card ! 

[leaveitallbehind]

Yes.  While I cannot say for certain what the US refundable v NRD options are with Cunard specifically as I have never cruised with them, in general with most cruise lines in the US any booking made can be made with an option of either using a refundable or NRD deposit.  The fares will be different with the NRD option typically being lower, which is the reason some will opt for this.  But the option to choose which one prefers is there.  Not so in the UK with the same bookings.

Edited April 3, 2020 by leaveitallbehind

[zqvol]

The point that everyone misses or doesn't want to acknowledge is that all cruise lines are cash poor right now and they don't have enough cash to make immediate refunds. Demanding immediate refunds would force the lines to go bankrupt and then you would wait months if not years for a refund.

[CruisingAlong4Now]

17 minutes ago, Trevor33 said:

Thank you for your reply. As you say you are able in the United states  to book the same Cunard cruise as we can in the uk but due to legislation you are able to book with a refundable deposit whereas we book on a non refundable basis. Ouch it must be time to apply for my Green Card ! 

 

It's not legislation that allows refundable deposits, but rather the free market that imposes no requirement regarding refund-ability of deposits. In the US, companies may offer refundable or non-refundable deposits based on their own business models and market dynamics.

[leaveitallbehind]

16 minutes ago, zqvol said:

The point that everyone misses or doesn't want to acknowledge is that all cruise lines are cash poor right now and they don't have enough cash to make immediate refunds. Demanding immediate refunds would force the lines to go bankrupt and then you would wait months if not years for a refund.

 

As you are suggesting, refund policies are not immediate to begin with, typically taking several weeks or longer to process before the refund is actually transacted and would hit the credit card used with the deposit. And with some lines it is stated as longer.  Given the current situation I would expect all may be on the longer side of the policy.

 

However this is their SOP in place long before the current situation and is not new or driven by current cash flow concerns.

 

But you are correct that they are not likely to alter that standard policy to make refunds immediate given today's climate.  That certainly could have longer reaching negative consequences.

 

 

Edited April 3, 2020 by leaveitallbehind

[leaveitallbehind]

5 minutes ago, CruisingAlong4Now said:

 

It's not legislation that allows refundable deposits, but rather the free market that imposes no requirement regarding refund-ability of deposits. In the US, companies may offer refundable or non-refundable deposits based on their own business models and market dynamics.

 

I believe in the UK it is driven by legislation.  But I am hoping - as previously stated - that one of our UK posters will clarify or confirm.

Edited April 3, 2020 by leaveitallbehind

[gerryuk]

3 hours ago, zqvol said:

The point that everyone misses or doesn't want to acknowledge is that all cruise lines are cash poor right now and they don't have enough cash to make immediate refunds. Demanding immediate refunds would force the lines to go bankrupt and then you would wait months if not years for a refund.

I believe, this is is wrong. As I understand it (and I am happy to be corrected) when you pay a deposit to a cruise line, the cruise line has taken out insurance for all deposits paid. If you were to get your deposit back, for whatever reason, its the insurance company that pays, not the cruise line.

[John Bull]

20 hours ago, Trevor33 said:

Deposits paid to Cunard/Carnival Uk do not have the option of a refundable or non refundable choice when making a booking. Am I correct from what you say that if booking a Cunard Cruise from the United States that you have an option on booking as to whether your deposit is made to secure the booking on a fully refundable basis or non refundable deposit? It would basically mean that the Booking Conditions for the same Cruise Line are different in the USA to the UK? You update would be greatly appreciated

 

 

Yes Trevor, there are different booking terms between the UK  (and I think the rest of Europe & Australia) and North America. 

As far as I'm aware that applies to all cruise lines.  

 

In the UK, for as long as I can remember, deposits and any required interim payments are forfeit from the moment they're handed over.

In the US deposits have always been refundable if cancelled before final-payment day. It's only in recent years that I've heard of having the option to book cancellable or - for a discount - un-cancellable.

In recent years that option has been offered in the UK, Europe and Aus for a great many hotels, car rentals and other bookings, but I've not seen a cruise offered with a deposit-refundable option.

 

Check out cruise lines' terms & conditions on their UK websites, and - if your internet connection allows it - those terms & conditions on their US websites.

Some US terms are to the cruiser's advantage. For example refund of deposits. Ticket prices are also usually lower, sometimes by a significant amount.

Some US terms are to the cruiser's disadvantage. EG late in the day the cruise line can decide to cancel folks' bookings, with no recompense other than the cruise fare, in order to charter the entire ship to another party. Or, as American CC members have posted, the cruise line can choose to materially re-vamp the itinerary - including simply sailing around the bay for the duration - with no compensation. Both of those examples are contrary to law for bookings from the UK, and will result in big compensation (and penalties?)

The terms depend on where the cruiser books. Not the cruiser's nationality. And not (in theory at least - details if you ask) on the cruiser's country of residence.  

 

BTW, for those whose deposits are at stake it doesn't make sense to cancel until final-payment day, even if you have no intention of sailing.

No-one knows how long this current little inconvenience (British under-statement ) will last. So even for a cruise next year, it's very possible that the cruise line will cancel thus entitling you to a refund. It's also possible that government travel restrictions will prevent you from taking the cruise- this is probably covered by travel insurance that you took out before the grief, probably not covered by subsequent or currently-available policies as insurers re-vamp their exclusions. 

 

I'm only a barrack-room lawyer , so get other opinions on what I've posted.

And if you can't find the US terms, ask on here and hopefully one of our North American cousins will copy & paste.

 

Keep safe

 

JB 

Edited April 4, 2020 by John Bull