Appalling behavior by Oceania management

[Kiko1]

On 4/3/2020 at 12:29 PM, Fam_Cruise said:

No.  What intelligent people should do is read the Travelers Assurance Program and realize that they can cancel up until 48 hours prior to departure and get a FCC, so they can wait to see if the cruise is cancelled and when it is request a refund.  That is what I am doing for our mid-May cruise.  I anticipate Oceania will cancel the remaining May cruises, which includes our cruise, at the end of April at which time I will cancel and request a refund.  If they don't cancel, then once we're at 3 or 4 days before the cruise's departure date we'll cancel for the FCC.  This way you (and I) can still heed the advice of federal authorities and also protect our financial interests.

 

But, yes I do agree with you that Oceania is shady in trying to keep people's money and that they are not being more transparent in this regard. This issue and the above strategy have been discussed in passing in a few threads over that past few weeks.  Bottom line is Oceania made an offer back in March, which you accepted and now you want a do over but unfortunately it doesn't work that way.  Accept it and move on to more pleasant things, or continue your frustration which in all likelihood is being exacerbated by current isolation and associated anxiety surrounding the whole Coronavirus uncertainty.     

In my case, Oceania announced the 48 hour cancellation policy, but requested that we don’t wait until 48 hours before our TransAtlantic Cruise to cancel for a 100% FCC. I did that, then 2 days later Oceania cancelled the cruise and offered 100% refunds or 125% FCC. But they wouldn’t do anything for me even though I was helping them out.  So I’ll use my FCC then never cruise with Oceania again. They don’t realize we have choices. 

[basor]

22 minutes ago, Kiko1 said:

In my case, Oceania announced the 48 hour cancellation policy, but requested that we don’t wait until 48 hours before our TransAtlantic Cruise to cancel for a 100% FCC. I did that, then 2 days later Oceania cancelled the cruise and offered 100% refunds or 125% FCC. But they wouldn’t do anything for me even though I was helping them out.  So I’ll use my FCC then never cruise with Oceania again. They don’t realize we have choices. 

When were you supposed to cruise - within 48 hours?  

[clo]

23 minutes ago, Kiko1 said:

So I’ll use my FCC then never cruise with Oceania again. They don’t realize we have choices. 

I think that's a perfect response. Good for you.

[Paulchili]

57 minutes ago, Kiko1 said:

but requested that we don’t wait until 48 hours before our TransAtlantic Cruise to cancel for a 100% FCC.

Was this a general request or specifically to you? How was it worded?

How long before the cruise did Oceania Actually cancel it?

I do feel your pain as I have a similar experience with another cruise line.

[Kiko1]

14 hours ago, basor said:

When were you supposed to cruise - within 48 hours?  

I was supposed to cruise March 31st, and I took the FCC offer for 100% FCC.  Here is an email I sent to Oceania, and they responded, but not addressing my concerns, just restating policy I already knew.  Shady in my opinion.

 

Hello,

I realize these are difficult and fast changing times with the Coronavirus, but as a loyal Oceania customer, I feel the obligation to state that your recent announcements are very unfair.

 

Here is the one week sequence of events for my TransAtlantic cruise on the Riviera, originally set for Miami to Rome.

 

3/6/2020: Oceania email:

    *  Eliminating Italy ports, 

    *  If choose to sail, get a 25% FCC, if cancel get 100% FCC,

    *  Announced Travelers Assurance Program permitting cancellation 48 hrs prior to departure,

    *  "Kindly asked" us to notify our TA by 3/21 if we were cancelling.

 

3/10/2020:  

    *  I responded to Oceania's "kindly asked" request and cancelled for the 100% FCC, rather than waiting to cancel 48 hrs prior to departure.

 

3/13/2020:  Oceania email:

    *  Cancelled the cruise, offering those that didn't cancel during that week per Oceania's 'kindly request", a 125% FCC or a 100% refund.

 

My TA has addressed this with three different Oceania employees who said Oceania will not consider those that cancelled during that week.  Yet, if you follow the thread for this cruise on CruiseCritic, you will see that at least two others that cancelled during that week (Mar 6 to Mar 13) were able to get the 100% refund that others in the same situation cannot get.  It appears Oceania is playing favorites, and your customers will consider this when booking in the future.

 

I would suggest that Oceania rethink their decisions on this.  It affects not only those on this particular cruise but those who follow CruiseCritic.  

[Jeffrey Lebowski]

Here's a twist related to this topic.  Six family members and myself were scheduled to sail on the Riviera starting March 11th. I am a physician. During the preceding week, I was following the Johns Hopkins COVID-19 outbreak map.  The Caribbean islands, including many of our scheduled ports of call, were starting to light up. Island news sites were also reporting positive tests and hospitalizations (in those countries that actually had testing capabilities; many of the scheduled ports did not have tests).

 

During the week prior to our scheduled departure, I emailed our Oceania TA several times for clarification about Oceania's plans to send out our cruise given the erupting pandemic. Finally on March 7th Oceania announced its FCC program, but we did not have the option to cancel for a refund. We elected to cancel for FCC for our safety and the safety of others.  It would have been a really bad idea to travel from Kirkland (yes, that Kirkland) on a transcontinental flight followed by an 11 day cruise.  On March 8th, both the CDC and the US State Department issued recommendations against cruise travel. 6 of the 7 in our party met the requirements to avoid such travel.

 

Riviera departed Miami on March 11th.  On March 13th, Oceania halted operations.  Those who had embarked on this cruise sat on the ship until it could dock in Miami on the 16th.

 

Those who chose to embark on this cruise were offered 100% cash refund or 125% FCC.  Those who were smart enough to avoid getting on this ship were offered only 100% FCC.

 

I am among those smart enough to not set foot on that ship given the circumstances.  In fact, the CDC recently announced that the Riviera carried COVID-19 test-positive individuals on the 2/26-3/11 cruise--which means that there was a very high likelihood that the SARS-CoV-2 virus was on the ship when it turned around a few hours later for our scheduled cruise.  Why should I (and the rest of my party) not be eligible for the cash refund?

 

 

[YoHoHo]

7 minutes ago, Jeffrey Lebowski said:

Here's a twist related to this topic. 

Not really a twist as this same issue has been reported here and on other cruise lines boards.

Unless I misunderstood. to summarize, you cancelled your booking before the cruise was cancelled

7 minutes ago, Jeffrey Lebowski said:

Those who chose to embark on this cruise were offered 100% cash refund or 125% FCC.  Those who were smart enough to avoid getting on this ship were offered only 100% FCC.

"Those who chose to embark on this cruise". Not necessarily so.

I'd say " also those who chose to wait to see if it would be cancelled before cancelling their booking"  based on their own analysis, advise posted here or given by many TAs. It is unfortunate your TA did not suggest that possibility to you. I have general emails from more than one agency that suggested this and advised before cancelling to call them to discuss. That idea might have been discussed on your Roll Call too. On my Roll Call there were a few who posted that they did intend on taking the cruise (assuming it was not canceled and things not worsened and no ports would take them) but others were waiting. Not rushing, though their was certainly anxiety about what would happened and when. That is understandable as this horrible situation was and is constantly evolving - everyone was making best guesses, including the cruise lines. And me. 

 

7 minutes ago, Jeffrey Lebowski said:

I am among those smart enough to not set foot on that ship given the circumstances. 

<snip>

Why should I (and the rest of my party) not be eligible for the cash refund?

 

 

I think others, not even physicians, were among those smart enough to not set foot on that ship given the circumstances. But others used travel smarts to wait and see if the cruise would be cancelled

 

"Why should I (and the rest of my party) not be eligible for the cash refund?"

 

Because you cancelled your booking under the offer at that time. Others accepted a refund later when the cruise was cancelled, some opted for the 125%. Some cruise lines up the ante later on and even offered a bigger incentive for a FCC so those who took the first offer are now asking why they did not get the later, bigger offer.

 

This is not unique to O. Sorry you are now unhappy with your choice. I hope that by the time you set foot on board using that FCC you can still enjoy the cruise - if not that would even make this worse for you.

 

Oh, I see this is your first post though you joined in January. Welcome to CC. I don't know if you know about Roll Calls but might have read good advice from others on your sailing. I suggest you check it out when you use that FCC and book your cruise. I sincerely hope you do manage to put this behind you and enjoy your cruise when it comes around.

[Paulchili]

2 hours ago, Jeffrey Lebowski said:

Those who chose to embark on this cruise were offered 100% cash refund or 125% FCC.  Those who were smart enough to avoid getting on this ship were offered only 100% FCC.

I feel your pain as I had stated earlier somewhere on these boards that I am in the same situation on a different cruise line.

Unfortunately, you and I, have to accept the conditions that were in place when we chose to cancel - it is as simple as that, no matter how unfortunate it is for both of us.

[LHT28]

3 hours ago, Jeffrey Lebowski said:

I am among those smart enough to not set foot on that ship given the circumstances.  In fact, the CDC recently announced that the Riviera carried COVID-19 test-positive individuals on the 2/26-3/11 cruise--which means that there was a very high likelihood that the SARS-CoV-2 virus was on the ship when it turned around a few hours later for our scheduled cruise.  Why should I (and the rest of my party) not be eligible for the cash refund?

 

 

Seriously ??

 

[StanandJim]

17 hours ago, LHT28 said:

Seriously ??

 

likely to be a one post wonder, Lynne

[CintiPam]

On 4/8/2020 at 7:00 PM, Jeffrey Lebowski said:

I am among those smart enough to not set foot on that ship given the circumstances.  In fact, the CDC recently announced that the Riviera carried COVID-19 test-positive individuals on the 2/26-3/11 cruise--which means that there was a very high likelihood that the SARS-CoV-2 virus was on the ship when it turned around a few hours later for our scheduled cruise.  Why should I (and the rest of my party) not be eligible for the cash refund?

 

 

Correction: Individual, NOT individuals.  And he was helicoptered off the ship to a hospital in Puerto Rico two full days before we disembarked in Miami on March 11.

This 87-year-old ex-Marine with emphysema, just one among a total of five pre-existing medical conditions, recovered and flew home to San Diego one week later.

[CaptainR]

On 4/8/2020 at 6:00 PM, Jeffrey Lebowski said:

Riviera departed Miami on March 11th.  On March 13th, Oceania halted operations.  Those who had embarked on this cruise sat on the ship until it could dock in Miami on the 16th.

 

Those who chose to embark on this cruise were offered 100% cash refund or 125% FCC.  Those who were smart enough to avoid getting on this ship were offered only 100% FCC.

 

I am among those smart enough to not set foot on that ship given the circumstances.  

Here’s hoping that you did not separate your shoulder by patting yourself on the back for being so smart.

I embarked on the March 11 sailing so guessing you would consider me “not-so-smart.” By boarding on March 11 we experienced was a very nice “free” 5 day cruise to no-where on a ship that was less than half full (no waiting at the bars that is for sure or hunting down a deck chair), great weather, really nice fellow cruisers, and a ship that was the cleanest I have ever experienced.  The cruise staff took many extra cautions such as paper menus (single use), doors to public bathroom were secured open all the time (did make it interesting looking for the paper sign that designated whether it was a female or male bathroom), and food handling was done with many extra precautions. While the staff faced many unknowns they continued to perform their jobs with great cheer.

As we had booked airfare using Oceania they rebooked our flights for a Monday departure from Miami so no having to mess with that detail.  Additionally, all passengers where provided free transfers to the airports so if you had purchased transfers they refunded your money. I did really feel bad for those passengers from Europe who did experience difficulties in arranging new flights back home.

One small correction to your posting in that we were given the option of 100% refund or 150% FCC and not the 125% that has been posted.  The future cruise desk was crowded with many passengers taking advantage of the 150% FCC to book a new cruise.  We certainly were part of that crowd.

As always looking forward to our next cruise.

May your next cruise be  blessed with calm seas, great weather and of course virus free.

CaptainR

[Pies4u]

Still waiting for a response! Got through yesterday & was told test the guy I need to speak to "wasn't in but he'd ring me tomorrow". Guess what? Nothing.

 

Really disappointed with Oceania tbh, this is becoming farcical.  At the moment I'm looking at losing out on over £5k on a so called 100% refund.  I know it is a difficult set of circumstances but the lack of clarity, failure to adhere to assurances and inadequate customer service that I have experienced is making me doubt that I would want to book a future cruise with Oceania at all.

[WFHFLOYD]

Dr Lebowski, presumably part of your smart calculation was a decision to value your expected health risk higher than your expected financial return.  That seems laudable.   So why would you now value the wallet over the wellness?  Is your health only worth more if a refund would be worth more in $$ than a FCC?  Seems ridiculous to me...  You should be glad you are well, and spend some planning time following the future cruises to the same, or perhaps a new destination with the group.  You might be pleasantly surprised that a 100% FCC might indeed buy more on the next round of voyages, in a stepped up effort to lure us all back.   If you're on the front lines of this mess at work now, thanks to you big time.  If you are a retired doc, then stay inside and be well.  Incidentally, I don't think the # of posts has anything to do with anything here.  There is no prize for talking and posting louder and longer than others.  Maybe you just wanted to test the message board waters before you jumped in....  Don't get HTN over this...    

[ano]

On 4/7/2020 at 7:07 PM, clo said:

I think that's a perfect response. Good for you.

I think how cruise lines behave during times like these says a lot about them.  While some people are stuck with a FCC for one more cruise, I do not have any cruises scheduled, and after reading this, will never go on another Oceania cruise again.  Oceania is owned by Norweigian, which also has questionable tactics.  (These are easy to find on the net.). 

 

I don't think I'll ever forget when CEO Frank Del Rio said at the last shareholders meeting in late February of this year "I will tell you that we’re not going to allow what we believe is a temporary situation to derail us from our long-term proven go-to-market strategy of focusing on value to consumers over using low price as a lever to stimulate demand”

 

Hmmm, I wonder if Mr. Del Rio feels the same today?  

[Pies4u]

Oceania have now confirmed that they will refund "all monies paid". I am now  waiting to find how and when this happen.

 

At least, after some prompting, probing & delay, it restores some faith in their service. Just a matter of establishing the process and concluding arrangements.

 

Hopefully, the cruise industry will survive this crisis & we can all consider resuming our travels - eventually.

 

Take care, stay safe.

 

 

[njhorseman]

7 hours ago, ano said:

I think how cruise lines behave during times like these says a lot about them.  While some people are stuck with a FCC for one more cruise, I do not have any cruises scheduled, and after reading this, will never go on another Oceania cruise again.  Oceania is owned by Norweigian, which also has questionable tactics.  (These are easy to find on the net.). 

 

I don't think I'll ever forget when CEO Frank Del Rio said at the last shareholders meeting in late February of this year "I will tell you that we’re not going to allow what we believe is a temporary situation to derail us from our long-term proven go-to-market strategy of focusing on value to consumers over using low price as a lever to stimulate demand”

 

Hmmm, I wonder if Mr. Del Rio feels the same today?  

Oceania is not owned by Norwegian Cruise Lines, it's owned by NCLH, the holding company that owns Norwegian Cruise Lines. Frank Del Rio is CEO of  holding company NCLH, which would make him also responsible for what you call Norwegian's questionable tactics every bit as much as he is for Oceania's, if you believe the blame lies with him...which I assume you do since you quoted a statement he made as evidence of his approach to running the business.

Edited April 17, 2020 by njhorseman

[LHT28]

7 hours ago, ano said:

I think how cruise lines behave during times like these says a lot about them.  While some people are stuck with a FCC for one more cruise, I do not have any cruises scheduled, and after reading this, will never go on another Oceania cruise again. 

So  you are never going to cruise  again ?

Or just with Oceania ?

 

Have you read the other  forums   where people are not getting refunds just FCC's if they are lucky

 

[Redtravel]

42 minutes ago, njhorseman said:

Oceania is not owned by Norwegian Cruise Lines, it's owned by NCLH, the holding company that owns Norwegian Cruise Lines. Frank Del Rio is CEO of  holding company NCLH, which would make him also responsible for what you call Norwegian's questionable tactics every bit as much as he is for Oceania's, if you believe the blame lies with him...which I assume you do since you quoted a statement he made as evidence of his approach to running the business.

Regardless if NCL owns, holds, or whatever, the recent responses from a Oceania are not very  good.  Reading these threads gives the message that a Oceania may be doing anything it can to hold out paying out money for any reason. Holding money that should be refunded outright and issuing future cruise credits could be Oceania just trying to stay afloat. No pun intended. Recently, had a discussion about whether or not it was secure to book a future cruise. Would any money be refunded if the cruise could not sail?  Some said that there was no way Oceania could go out of business. After all, look at the beautiful expensive ships that they own.  Just as a reply, it was pointed out that the R ships were once owned by Renaissance cruises that went out of business. We don’t want cruise lines to go out of business. However, in the current market, it could happen. The corona virus has and will continue to dictate what we can do. With the increasing number of cases and deaths and the resurgence in Wuhan, China, cruising may change.  Refunds are preferred until we have a more positive future. Fcc are a gamble.

[njhorseman]

7 minutes ago, Redtravel said:

Regardless if NCL owns, holds, or whatever, the recent responses from a Oceania are not very  good.  Reading these threads gives the message that a Oceania may be doing anything it can to hold out paying out money for any reason. Holding money that should be refunded outright and issuing future cruise credits could be Oceania just trying to stay afloat. No pun intended. Recently, had a discussion about whether or not it was secure to book a future cruise. Would any money be refunded if the cruise could not sail?  Some said that there was no way Oceania could go out of business. After all, look at the beautiful expensive ships that they own.  Just as a reply, it was pointed out that the R ships were once owned by Renaissance cruises that went out of business. We don’t want cruise lines to go out of business. However, in the current market, it could happen. The corona virus has and will continue to dictate what we can do. With the increasing number of cases and deaths and the resurgence in Wuhan, China, cruising may change.  Refunds are preferred until we have a more positive future. Fcc are a gamble.

I don't disagree with what you're saying, but the purpose of my post was to debunk the mistaken idea that some on this board still seem to hold that whatever Oceania's woes or shortcomings are can be blamed on NCL. Given that the CEO of the holding company that owns both, as well as Regent Seven Seas, is the same person who was the co-founder and CEO of Oceania, and that Oceania's current CEO, Bob Binder is another of the line's co-founders, the reality is that Oceania is still under the management control of the same senior executives it always was. 

 

As someone who cruises on both NCL and Oceania I can tell you that many who cruise on NCL, myself included, believe that NCL has also been negatively affected by FDR's policies, probably even more so than Oceania has.

 

In addition, all the major cruise lines have taken the same overall approach to refunds during the pandemic crisis. They are all offering FCCs and hoping you'll accept that in lieu of a refund. Very simply they're struggling to stay in  business and that's why  they've done it.

[PaulMCO]

During the shareholder meeting FDR stated that no passengers on any ship contracted COVID-19.   I guess he lied ...

Considering the lawsuits on corporate misrepresentation, this could be added to the case,

[LHT28]

2 minutes ago, PaulMCO said:

During the shareholder meeting FDR stated that no passengers on any ship contracted COVID-19.   I guess he lied ...

Considering the lawsuits on corporate misrepresentation, this could be added to the case,

 Oh  dear  when did someone contract the virus  & what ship are we talking about?

The only one I saw was the Riviera early March  was there more?

[DeanoNorthPerth]

3 hours ago, Pies4u said:

Oceania have now confirmed that they will refund "all monies paid". 

 

 

Was this in a personal communication to you or was it a general announcement? I haven’t seen anything here in Australia.

[PaulMCO]

8 minutes ago, LHT28 said:

 Oh  dear  when did someone contract the virus  & what ship are we talking about?

The only one I saw was the Riviera early March  was there more?

Riviera -- which he has denied having such.

[njhorseman]

13 minutes ago, PaulMCO said:

Riviera -- which he has denied having such.

A couple of NCL ships also had a small number of positives.