Now for something completely different

[ilikeanswers]

13 minutes ago, OzKiwiJJ said:

Thank you. It's turned out to be a lot more fun than I expected it to be, plus it gives us all some virtual travel.

 

And also learn about new places. My go to list is growing🤗

[ilikeanswers]

49 minutes ago, Blackduck59 said:

By the way does anyone in Australia think your Parliamentary Democracy resembles the United States system of Government?

Don't want to get into "politics" just curious.

 

It probably resembles more UK than USA. We also have a number of smaller parties and independents whereas America from what I understand seems to be only really to two parties 🤔

[OzKiwiJJ]

The NZ election results should start coming in soon. Polling closes at 7pm their time but counting started on the 2 million advance votes at 9am. Coverage of the results starts after the polls close.

[Blackduck59]

Oops Starboard 20 as I change course before I run us aground on the poorly charted shoal known as politics. (Although it will be interesting what the results in New Zealand bring in regard to cruising)

 

[MMDown Under]

1 hour ago, Blackduck59 said:

 

By the way does anyone in Australia think your Parliamentary Democracy resembles the United States system of Government?

Don't want to get into "politics" just curious.

No Australia follows the UK Westminster System.  In Queensland, we only have a House of Representatives with no Senate.  Federally there is a House of Reps and a Senate.  

US Electoral College Voting is unique.

NZ has Mixed Member Proportional (MMP), for a fairer representative system, with each voter getting two votes.  You might like to google it, as it is unique.  The current PM didn't get the most votes, but was able to form Government with two minor parties.  NZ is having elections today. 

Edited October 17, 2020 by MMDown Under

[Blackduck59]

3 minutes ago, MMDown Under said:

No Australia follows the UK Westminster System.  In Queensland, we only have a House of Representatives with no Senate.  Federally there is a House of Reps and a Senate.  

US Electoral College Voting is unique.

NZ has Mixed Member Proportional (MMP), for a fairer representative system, with each voter getting two votes.  You might like to google it, as it is unique.  The current PM didn't get the most votes, but was able to form Government with two minor parties.  NZ is having elections today. 

 

I think that it's about the same in Oz and Canada. No "Provincial" Senate but a federal one (appointed waste of money)

There have been a couple of tries to get proportional representation, two referendums have failed.

 

[Docker123]

25 minutes ago, Blackduck59 said:

 

I think that it's about the same in Oz and Canada. No "Provincial" Senate but a federal one (appointed waste of money)

There have been a couple of tries to get proportional representation, two referendums have failed.

 

Australian states have a “lower” house, Legislative Assembly. Some also have an elected “upper” house, Legislative Council.

 

Lower house has single member electorates. Upper house has multi member electorates.

 

Tasmania has a proportional representation system, even in lower house.

 

[possum52]

2 minutes ago, Docker123 said:

Australian states have a “lower” house, Legislative Assembly. Some also have an elected “upper” house, Legislative Council.

 

Lower house has single member electorates. Upper house has multi member electorates.

 

Tasmania has a proportional representation system, even in lower house.

 

I actually think Australia is overgoverned - Federal, State and Territory governments - most with two houses and then local government. 

 

Leigh

[Blackduck59]

The reason I asked for input from my helpful friends down under is because there was some talk by one poster on another thread about how the Australian System of Government is based on the US...I said not so much and they pushed back so I reiterated my point and pointed out we should agree to disagree. 

 

Leigh if you want a ridiculous situation, the Greater Victoria (BC) area has 13 separate municipalities, 6 police departments and 14 fire departments

[possum52]

54 minutes ago, Blackduck59 said:

The reason I asked for input from my helpful friends down under is because there was some talk by one poster on another thread about how the Australian System of Government is based on the US...I said not so much and they pushed back so I reiterated my point and pointed out we should agree to disagree. 

 

Leigh if you want a ridiculous situation, the Greater Victoria (BC) area has 13 separate municipalities, 6 police departments and 14 fire departments

The only similarity is they have two houses of federal government and each has a house called the Senate. As others have said our government is based on Westminster as it appears the Canadian government is as well. The Greater Melbourne area has 31 local government areas (LGAs) or municipilties for a population of just under 5 million. Victoria only has one police force and two fire services. It is much the same in all the states and territories. The Australian Federal Police also look after the ACT (Canberra).

 

Leigh

[Docker123]

My US experience resembles Lyle’s description.

 

I went to the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign. About 200km south of Chicago.

 

there was Champaign City police, Urbana City Police, Champaign County sheriff, Illinois State Police.  Oh, and the University had its own police force. Similar duplication of fire departments.

 

Another notable aspect was Local school districts which were often county based.

 

Edited October 17, 2020 by Docker123

[Blackduck59]

8 hours ago, possum52 said:

The only similarity is they have two houses of federal government and each has a house called the Senate. As others have said our government is based on Westminster as it appears the Canadian government is as well. The Greater Melbourne area has 31 local government areas (LGAs) or municipilties for a population of just under 5 million. Victoria only has one police force and two fire services. It is much the same in all the states and territories. The Australian Federal Police also look after the ACT (Canberra).

 

Leigh

 

Thanks Leigh, I might mention that those 13 municipalities have a population of about 370,000 total. One of the police forces is RCMP which is our Federal police force and does local policing for 5 of the municipalities and the military police have jurisdiction on military installations including 4 different married quarters. Just curious do these 31 LGAs all have their own Mayor and city council? because ours do.

[MMDown Under]

6 hours ago, Docker123 said:

 

I went to the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign. About 200km south of Chicago.

there was Champaign City police, Urbana City Police, Champaign County sheriff, Illinois State Police.  Oh, and the University had its own police force. Similar duplication of fire departments.

Another notable aspect was Local school districts which were often county based.

My daughter went to the University of Illinois at Urbana Champaign.  She  was most impressed with the sporting facilities.  We enjoyed a visit later.  What a beautiful campus. 

[lyndarra]

12 hours ago, Docker123 said:

Australian states have a “lower” house, Legislative Assembly. Some also have an elected “upper” house, Legislative Council.

 

Lower house has single member electorates. Upper house has multi member electorates.

 

Tasmania has a proportional representation system, even in lower house.

 

IIRC Queensland does not have an upper house. Not sure about the rest.

[By The Bay]

2 hours ago, Blackduck59 said:

 Just curious do these 31 LGAs all have their own Mayor and city council? because ours do.

Yes, they do have their own Mayor and council.

Edited October 17, 2020 by By The Bay

[Docker123]

3 hours ago, MMDown Under said:

My daughter went to the University of Illinois at Urbana Champaign.  She  was most impressed with the sporting facilities.  We enjoyed a visit later.  What a beautiful campus. 

When was she there?
 

i went 83 to beginning of 89. Did my masters and PhD. 

 

A beautiful place, great facilities, outstanding faculty.

 

[MMDown Under]

21 minutes ago, Docker123 said:

When was she there?

i went 83 to beginning of 89. Did my masters and PhD. 

A beautiful place, great facilities, outstanding faculty.

 

What a wonderful experience to be able to do your Masters and PhD there.  She went there on a six month uni exchange in 1994, as part of her degree.  She would have loved to have studied further there.  She is currently doing a Masters with University of Melbourne on line instead of enjoying the Melbourne Uni campus experience (due to covid).  

[MMDown Under]

12 hours ago, possum52 said:

The only similarity is they have two houses of federal government and each has a house called the Senate. As others have said our government is based on Westminster as it appears the Canadian government is as well. The Greater Melbourne area has 31 local government areas (LGAs) or municipilties for a population of just under 5 million. Victoria only has one police force and two fire services. It is much the same in all the states and territories. The Australian Federal Police also look after the ACT (Canberra).

 

Leigh

The City of Brisbane was formed in 1925 from the amalgamation of two cities, 6 towns and 12 shires.  It used to be one of the largest cities in area in the world.  Some former Town and Shire Halls were made into libraries.  

[MMDown Under]

15 hours ago, OzKiwiJJ said:

The NZ election results should start coming in soon. Polling closes at 7pm their time but counting started on the 2 million advance votes at 9am. Coverage of the results starts after the polls close.

Watched the combined coverage of ACT election and NZ election.  I did a little happy dance for Jacinda.  I thought it was ironic that she left the Mormon church because they didn't include homosexuals, whilst ACT has a long serving Chief Minister, who is homosexual, with a husband.  

[possum52]

4 hours ago, Blackduck59 said:

 

Thanks Leigh, I might mention that those 13 municipalities have a population of about 370,000 total. One of the police forces is RCMP which is our Federal police force and does local policing for 5 of the municipalities and the military police have jurisdiction on military installations including 4 different married quarters. Just curious do these 31 LGAs all have their own Mayor and city council? because ours do.

Yes Lyle, as By the Bay said, each LGA has a mayor and councillors or if a shire instead of a city of which there are four on the rural outskirts, will have a shire president and councillors. For our LGA the mayor is paid up to around $100,000 and the councillors up to around $31,000 for expences. 

 

Of course the military police will have their own duties similar to what you described. 

 

Do Canadians feel they overgoverned and that police and fire services could be combined like here?

 

Leigh

[Blackduck59]

To answer your question Leigh, I think for the most part we do pretty well with "Government". I do think the Local (Municipal) situation is quite costly with so many little (Key word little) fiefdoms seem silly.

[OzKiwiJJ]

Unfortunately in Sydney, at least, the state government overrules the local councils on some issues, particularly property development. Our local council has been forced to accept the redevelopment of areas within the municipality, with thousands of apartments replacing a few hundred houses, and with very little infrastructure to support the higher population. Consequently roads are choked, public transport is inadequate, and schools aren't coping. Plus we've had to live with constant construction noise across the small valley we live in for at least ten years as those apartment blocks get built one after the other.

Edited October 17, 2020 by OzKiwiJJ

[Blackduck59]

Don't get me started on building Julie. Our City (1 of the 13) has become notorious for issuing development permits and just today we get a knock on our door by some guy, it seems that in order to build as big of a house as possible with a secondary suite the property next door was excavating on the property line and found our water line is over the property line by about 20 cm now they want to dig back into our driveway to move the water line so they can build this new house less than 2 meters from the property line. When we built our house about 16 years ago there were about 10 houses in a 200 meter radius of us now there is about 80 and another 50 or more on the way. We are being pushed off our place, my family has been on this land since 1963. I think we will be gone from here before 2023.

[possum52]

4 minutes ago, OzKiwiJJ said:

Unfortunately in Sydney, at least the state government overrules the local councils on some issues, particularly property development. Our local council has been forced to accept the redevelopment of areas within the municipality, with thousands of apartments replacing a few hundred houses, and with very little infrastructure to support the higher population. Consequently roads are choked, public transport is inadequate, and schools aren't coping. Plus we've had to live with constant construction noise across the small valley we live in for at least ten years as those apartment blocks get built one after the other.

I think the same probably happens in all large cities Julie. it certainly does here in Melbourne. Our postcode is just two suburbs with the bay on the western side, a river on the northern side. The suburb closest to the beach where we live was originally a holiday spot with old cottages and large blocks. Many of the blocks have been subdivided with units and townhouses and not enough parking. The other suburb was developed from the late 1970s and has a marina and lakes. Apartment blocks are popping up and it is planned the local pub will have apartment blocks all around it much to the disgust of locals. The developers have tried to reduce the amount of parking spots it is to provide but the local community have fought it and won at this stage. All this high rise development (up to 10 stories is planned for one appartment block) puts so much pressure on the area's infrastructure. The roads are packed and cars are parked in streets which were not designed for this. It is difficult for emergency service vehicles to even get to some incidents.

 

Leigh

[OzKiwiJJ]

Leigh, the problem we have is not with the local council, who are one of the best in Sydney. It's the state government which is over-riding council decisions so their developer mates can do what they like, where they like, without any regard for our local environment. Plus the state government controls the public transport and isn't increasing bus services or routes to cope with the new developments. 

 

Ah well, at least the local council managed to keep the developers out of our new parking/supermarket/park and restaurant development which is fantastic. They turned a horrible street level parking lot into a beautiful new hub for our village.