Is JUNE 2020 too soon?

[skridge]

11 hours ago, Elaine5715 said:

I would eat at the buffet.  I expect people who are sick to be responsible.  I am not opting out of life because something might happen.  

The expectation of people to be responsible seems to be a tiny bit short sighted.

[skridge]

42 minutes ago, ChinaShrek said:

 

Yes, my thinking is quite simple. I am not convinced and I have not seem any evidence that sitting on a plane will lead to the same rate of infections (for those people sitting on the plane) as traveling on a cruise ship. How many people actually got Covid while sitting in an airplane seat? How many people got Covid while being a cruise ship? My point is cruising is inherently more dangerous than flying and should treated as such.

I think there is a lot of evidence that many people contracted the virus while on a cruise ship.  If you do a little bit of research on it you will probably come to this conclusion unless this is some sort of tin foil hat theory that the the media is making this up for some sort of political agenda.

 

[ChinaShrek]

1 minute ago, jimbo5544 said:

And here is one proving my point, while not the bastion of truth USA Today, this only is a US rep and Senator.

 

https://www.dailywire.com/news/tom-cotton-dan-crenshaw-make-bold-new-accusations-against-china?al_applink_data={"target_url"%3A"http%3A\%2F\%2Fdlvr.it\%2FRVF1CX"%2C"extras"%3A[]%2C"referer_app_link"%3A{"url"%3A"fb%3A\%2F\%2F\%2F"%2C"app_name"%3A"Facebook"}}

 

I think your agenda is out in the open now. This is a right-wing publication that has constantly banished China. I am tired of the anti-China sentiment. They have done a better job controlling the virus than the United States and yet get criticized. Attack China all you want. it will not get you on a cruise ship.

[jimbo5544]

1 minute ago, skridge said:

I think there is a lot of evidence that many people contracted the virus while on a cruise ship.  If you do a little bit of research on it you will probably come to this conclusion unless this is some sort of tin foil hat theory that the the media is making this up for some sort of political agenda.

 

How many is a lot of people

[sanger727]

16 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

So what is your answer?

 

 

What we are doing right now. Social distancing. Treating everyone like they are potentially carriers. Not just saying "the sick should stay home" and going about your life as normal.

Edited April 22, 2020 by sanger727

[Fredric22]

 

1 minute ago, sanger727 said:

 

What we are doing right now. Social distancing. Treating everyone like they are potentially carriers. Not just saying "the sick should stay home" and going about your life as normal.

All high-risk individuals should probably stay home until there are some good treatments available.  

[jimbo5544]

7 minutes ago, ChinaShrek said:

 

I think your agenda is out in the open now. This is a right-wing publication that has constantly banished China. I am tired of the anti-China sentiment. They have done a better job controlling the virus than the United States and yet get criticized. Attack China all you want. it will not get you on a cruise ship.

I attack no one, the fact you think so is meaningful tho.  My “agenda” is cruising and America, what’s yours?

[skridge]

6 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

How many is a lot of people

Among 3,711 Diamond Princess passengers and crew, 712 (19.2%) had positive test results for SARS-CoV-2 (Figure 1). Of these, 331 (46.5%) were asymptomatic at the time of testing. Among 381 symptomatic patients, 37 (9.7%) required intensive care, and nine (1.3%) died (8). Infections also occurred among three Japanese responders, including one nurse, one quarantine officer, and one administrative officer (9). As of March 13, among 428 U.S. passengers and crew, 107 (25.0%) had positive test results for COVID-19; 11 U.S. passengers remain hospitalized in Japan (median age = 75 years), including seven in serious condition (median age = 76 years).

 

I call that a lot.  Copied from CDC website.  You are welcome to have your own opinion.  This is mine.

 

[jimbo5544]

10 minutes ago, sanger727 said:

 

What we are doing right now. Social distancing. Treating everyone like they are potentially carriers. Not just saying "the sick should stay home" and going about your life as normal.

At some point we need to return to normalcy, it is not a black or white switch for everywhere tho, some will be different in terms of timing and approach.  The point is that we all need to determine the inning for and how we (collectively and separately) decide to do that.  One person’s way of waiting till they see zero cases and want to only cruise they feel 100% safe is certainly different than expel who are wiling to take a more dynamic and fluid approach and will not let this alter their lives forever.  Makes neither right or wrong.  

[jimbo5544]

4 minutes ago, skridge said:

Among 3,711 Diamond Princess passengers and crew, 712 (19.2%) had positive test results for SARS-CoV-2 (Figure 1). Of these, 331 (46.5%) were asymptomatic at the time of testing. Among 381 symptomatic patients, 37 (9.7%) required intensive care, and nine (1.3%) died (8). Infections also occurred among three Japanese responders, including one nurse, one quarantine officer, and one administrative officer (9). As of March 13, among 428 U.S. passengers and crew, 107 (25.0%) had positive test results for COVID-19; 11 U.S. passengers remain hospitalized in Japan (median age = 75 years), including seven in serious condition (median age = 76 years).

 

I call that a lot.  Copied from CDC website.  You are welcome to have your own opinion.  This is mine.

 

I made my case and were the VAST majority come from.  New York, New Jersey, Mass, 100’s of thousands in nursings homes and thousands dying,  southeast Florida, New Orleans, that is what I call a lot.  NONE of these came from a cruise ship.  The ones you mention, the vast majority got it because the world was slow to react and that them as humans, keeping them prisoner on a ship that was sick.

[Fredric22]

2 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

At some point we need to return to normalcy, it is not a black or white switch for everywhere tho, some will be different in terms of timing and approach.  The point is that we all need to determine the inning for and how we (collectively and separately) decide to do that.  One person’s way of waiting till they see zero cases and want to only cruise they feel 100% safe is certainly different than expel who are wiling to take a more dynamic and fluid approach and will not let this alter their lives forever.  Makes neither right or wrong.  

Very well said.  There is not a 1 size fits all approach.  People need to assess their own risk and act appropriately.  

[jimbo5544]

3 minutes ago, Fredric22 said:

Very well said.  There is not a 1 size fits all approach.  People need to assess their own risk and act appropriately.  

Some need to psh that envelope, whether it be cruising, opening up our country, or even going to get groceries.  It has to be that way, our country is based on that.  While we may not agree with those who push the envelope, it makes us all better for doing so.

[ninjacat123]

15 hours ago, ninjacat123 said:

I was wondering how the travel industry operated when SARS and MERS were more of a threat. That could be an indicator of how protocols will be developed with COVID-19. 

I wasn't cruising during the SARS epidemic and am curious what the protocol was for cruising at that time. I don't remember what was protocol for MERS but would be interested to learn what that protocol was as well.  TIA!

[the_thunderbird]

56 minutes ago, ninjacat123 said:

I wasn't cruising during the SARS epidemic and am curious what the protocol was for cruising at that time. I don't remember what was protocol for MERS but would be interested to learn what that protocol was as well.  TIA!

 

Not much if anything on the North America side, I do recall a few ship redeployments and itinerary changes. 

 

SARS was pretty inefficient at moving through people compared to Covid-19. Consequently containment was quite successful, relatively speaking, quickly. The industry was able to keep moving normally everywhere except Asia... Even then I don't recall a full shut down?

[Elaine5715]

2 hours ago, ninjacat123 said:

I wasn't cruising during the SARS epidemic and am curious what the protocol was for cruising at that time. I don't remember what was protocol for MERS but would be interested to learn what that protocol was as well.  TIA!

The protocol  was you completed your health form.  Done.  Same under zika

[Elaine5715]

3 hours ago, skridge said:

The expectation of people to be responsible seems to be a tiny bit short sighted.

I am only responsible for me.  I can't stop people from driving drunk and yet, I still drive.  I can't /won't be responsible for the behavior of those who lie, and evade health questionnaires.   

[Fredric22]

56 minutes ago, skridge said:

If you aren't going to admit that being on a cruise ship is not just a floating petri dish for this virus then I have nothing else to say.  I love and miss cruising, but I am a realist and I will not be back on a ship in the near future.  Look at it as a positive.  Brings demand down along with the price.

Please don't take this the wrong way... but if you think a cruise ship is a "floating petri dish" and you won't be on a ship in the near future, what is the point of reading and contributing to a forum like this about cruising?  

 

For all of those who think a cruise ship is a "petri dish", you really need to educate yourselves about all of the places in the world that are FAR more dirty, including some places even in your own home.  If you think a cruise ship is bad, I would recommend you never visit some of the kitchens of your local, neighborhood restaurants. 

Edited April 22, 2020 by Fredric22

[ray98]

29 minutes ago, Fredric22 said:

 

For all of those who think a cruise ship is a "petri dish", you really need to educate yourselves about all of the places in the world that are FAR more dirty, including some places even in your own home. 

 

That part baffles me.  A cruise ship is no dirtier than the airport, grocery store or your local restaurant.  However, it is a unique environment since it has a captive audience which allows you to see the results.  Those same people infected with something at the airport or grocery story go their separate ways and never see the big picture.

[Fredric22]

4 minutes ago, ray98 said:

 

That part baffles me.  A cruise ship is no dirtier than the airport, grocery store or your local restaurant.  However, it is a unique environment since it has a captive audience which allows you to see the results.  Those same people infected with something at the airport or grocery story go their separate ways and never see the big picture.

You can say it 1000 times and people still will never get it...  There really are few differences between a cruise ship and an all-inclusive resort but you hardly ever hear about these things happening at resorts because there is no tracking going on and people are coming and going every day. 

[Lesnpaula]

2 hours ago, Fredric22 said:

Please don't take this the wrong way... but if you think a cruise ship is a "floating petri dish" and you won't be on a ship in the near future, what is the point of reading and contributing to a forum like this about cruising?  

 

For all of those who think a cruise ship is a "petri dish", you really need to educate yourselves about all of the places in the world that are FAR more dirty, including some places even in your own home.  If you think a cruise ship is bad, I would recommend you never visit some of the kitchens of your local, neighborhood restaurants. 

Confined space with thousands of the same people mingling together for up to a week. Kind of the same general concept as the USS Theodore Roosevelt, where there's nearly 700 confirmed cases from less than 5,000 service members. 

I don't think folks are trying to be overly negative toward Carnival or the cruise industry by calling it a petri dish, it's just the general condition of what we do on there collectively. It's probably a fair analogy. 

[jimbo5544]

2 minutes ago, Lesnpaula said:

Confined space with thousands of the same people mingling together for up to a week. Kind of the same general concept as the USS Theodore Roosevelt, where there's nearly 700 confirmed cases from less than 5,000 service members. 

I don't think folks are trying to be overly negative toward Carnival or the cruise industry by calling it a petri dish, it's just the general condition of what we do on there collectively. It's probably a fair analogy. 

I see no analogy between a cruise ship and the aircraft carrier other than they are both ships, totally different environments, have you ever been on an aircraft carrier?

[outdoors27]

2 hours ago, Fredric22 said:

Please don't take this the wrong way... but if you think a cruise ship is a "floating petri dish" and you won't be on a ship in the near future, what is the point of reading and contributing to a forum like this about cruising?  

 

For all of those who think a cruise ship is a "petri dish", you really need to educate yourselves about all of the places in the world that are FAR more dirty, including some places even in your own home.  If you think a cruise ship is bad, I would recommend you never visit some of the kitchens of your local, neighborhood restaurants. 

Excellent points and so true. It's refreshing to see a few positive posts.  Although I'm sure the negative ones will continue. Thank you

[Lesnpaula]

7 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

I see no analogy between a cruise ship and the aircraft carrier other than they are both ships, totally different environments, have you ever been on an aircraft carrier?

USS USS Theodore Roosevelt
Length: Overall: 1,092 feet

 

Carnival Dream 1,004ft

 

Large ships with a massive amount of people conifned. That's the similarity. 

[jimbo5544]

25 minutes ago, Lesnpaula said:

USS USS Theodore Roosevelt
Length: Overall: 1,092 feet

 

Carnival Dream 1,004ft

 

Large ships with a massive amount of people conifned. That's the similarity. 

I got the original analogy just fine, I will give a check mark on the length being close.  I do not want to go down a rabbit hole on this, but, have you seen the way the crew sleeps on a carrier?  I have, many people in close proximity, where do they go to spend time up on deck to relax?  Answer no where.  Cabins vs large rooms, many restaurants vs open dining, free to roam for day vs doing a job with many others close by, sitting by the pool vs working with many others in closed in space.  I can go on.  Cruise ships are not petri dishes...period.  It is so network news to suggest so.

[Lesnpaula]

5 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

Cruise ships are not petri dishes...period.  It is so network news to suggest so.

The vast amount of documented infections in the last couple months would argue otherwise. 

 

It's all good, however. I'm confident that science and ingenuity will win the day, just not certain when that particular day will be. 

 

Be safe!