9 ways cruising will be different when it starts up again

[chipmaster]

https://thepointsguy.com/guide/cruising-changes-caused-by-coronavirus/

 

No more self serve buffets ( yeah, never liked them ),  restrictions on who can travel (good keep to the health and low risk ) , health screening ( yup only health people ), wash scrub wash all the time ( good, to lax before ), much cheaper ( yeah right, prices must go up to support near bankrupt companies ), less crowded ( all right and have to be more expensive ), fewer ships ( you bet! ),shorter sailings ( can imagine you ain't docking here in my country with thousands of carriers ),  relaxed cancellations ( more credit, LOL )

 

Edited April 21, 2020 by chipmaster

[lenquixote66]

46 minutes ago, chipmaster said:

https://thepointsguy.com/guide/cruising-changes-caused-by-coronavirus/

 

No more self serve buffets ( yeah, never liked them ),  restrictions on who can travel (good keep to the health and low risk ) , health screening ( yup only health people ), wash scrub wash all the time ( good, to lax before ), much cheaper ( yeah right, prices must go up to support near bankrupt companies ), less crowded ( all right and have to be more expensive ), fewer ships ( you bet! ),shorter sailings ( can imagine you ain't docking here in my country with thousands of carriers ),  relaxed cancellations ( more credit, LOL )

 

While there may be a definitive reason to not allow old people on cruises I can see many age discrimination suits.

Elimnating the buffet is a wonderful idea .

[chipmaster]

14 minutes ago, lenquixote66 said:

While there may be a definitive reason to not allow old people on cruises I can see many age discrimination suits.

Elimnating the buffet is a wonderful idea .

 

I don't think "age" as a singular criteria is fair or wise.  There is some personal choice in this, but the companies that provide service like cruising or flying or other that may be stuck when a customer get's ill or dies will likely have more exhaustive clauses about care/evacuation and require hefty insurance premiums for those customers.

 

I think it very reasonable in the day and age where good health is an asset and advancing age a liability that a health score is accessed with various required insurance premiums on it ( just like life, auto, health insurance ).   Those that are of poor health and or advanced age should be able to participate but need to pay a premium for it.

 

 

[lenquixote66]

2 minutes ago, chipmaster said:

 

I don't think "age" as a singular criteria is fair or wise.  There is some personal choice in this, but the companies that provide service like cruising or flying or other that may be stuck when a customer get's ill or dies will likely have more exhaustive clauses about care/evacuation and require hefty insurance premiums for those customers.

 

I think it very reasonable in the day and age where good health is an asset and advancing age a liability that a health score is accessed with various required insurance premiums on it ( just like life, auto, health insurance ).   Those that are of poor health and or advanced age should be able to participate but need to pay a premium for it.

 

 

Do you believe that people in their 70’s or older should pay a higher rate for everything where they would be in contact with other people ? I definitely do not.

[chipmaster]

6 minutes ago, lenquixote66 said:

Do you believe that people in their 70’s or older should pay a higher rate for everything where they would be in contact with other people ? I definitely do not.

 

For food, housing, and health care absolutely not. 

 

But if they want to fly to say China or take a cruise where their likely hood to become gravely ill or die and need resources at far higher burden to society, yes they need to pay for that enhanced leisure experience.   Why should I who work hard to be both fit and health subsidize others?   I don't mind paying a tax, even a higher tax that some socialist societies require for the common good like healthcare, childcare etc. but leisure nope that is a luxury and I ain't subsidizing that!! 

[LDVinNC]

Chipmaster, do you not realize that an accident or sudden illness can happen to ANYONE?

[Laurab23]

Older cruises pay more for travel insurance because of their age.

 

Laura

[lynncarol]

I have to take issue with Chipmaster's comments about age.  My husband and I are both in our midseventies, still very active (hiking an hour each day over hilly terrain) and on no medications.  Are you saying that we are more likely to present a health risk than an overweight, diabetic,  inactive 40 year old who is a heavy drinker?  Your argument that age alone should determine the cost of cruising is absurd.  

[chipmaster]

1 hour ago, LDVinNC said:

Chipmaster, do you not realize that an accident or sudden illness can happen to ANYONE?

 

Yup ***** does indeed happen that is random, but the risk profile as well as the cost profile when normalized over a large enough demographics is what insurance is based on.   A younger more healthy person is much more lower risk than an older unhealthy person. 

 

Young are very high accident risk for say automobile but likely low risk for death by common flu or COVID19.   

 

Thus the cost for insurance and risk/cost should be priced into the insurance to cover that.  There is no reason I should pay that tax for an old possibly unhealthy / obese / smoking alcoholic for example. 

[chipmaster]

17 minutes ago, lynncarol said:

I have to take issue with Chipmaster's comments about age.  My husband and I are both in our midseventies, still very active (hiking an hour each day over hilly terrain) and on no medications.  Are you saying that we are more likely to present a health risk than an overweight, diabetic,  inactive 40 year old who is a heavy drinker?  Your argument that age alone should determine the cost of cruising is absurd.  

 

They should and can create a health score, and I agree I've seen many a 70 even 80 year old that would be lower risk than some 20's somebody.  I travel a lot, and the people I see flying sometimes young, can't even fit in a economy seat, they are indeed higher risk ( especially when I see what they choose to snack on, LOL ) than you and your husband and should pay for that!

 

I am NOT saying I am age discriminating, the numbers/data and statistics drive what should set the cost.    No different then if you were flying and saw a very healthy 80 year old pilot in the seat, regardless of their health / fitness you think they are as capable and have the strength and required reflects ?  Some things simply decline with age, but I am working really hard to cheat father time, let's see how many years/decades I can cheat him, LOL

Edited April 21, 2020 by chipmaster

[Charles4515]

While there may be a definitive reason to not allow old people on cruises I can see many age discrimination suits.
Elimnating the buffet is a wonderful idea .

Anyone can file a suit but they can discriminate by age. There are currently adult only cruises. Many cruise lines have a minimum age of 21. Infants must be 6 months.


Sent from my iPhone using Forums

[CruisingAlong4Now]

"They should and can create a health score, and I agree I've seen many a 70 even 80 year old that would be lower risk than some 20's somebody. "

 

Yes, this criteria was used in Europe to ensure that the sick and disabled people did not become a drain on the state's resources, which could then be used for the healthy fit people.

[babs135]

As senior citizens we already pay a premium on our travel insurance.  When all this has passed are we still to be denied a holiday unless our doctor says we can go?  Are we going to only be allowed to travel close to home, eg the Med.  Will we be denied longhaul flights to the States or further?  And who will have the ultimate decision as to whether we can travel - the doctor or the cruiseline?

There is almost certainly going to be global recession following on after the virus so who are the people who will be able to afford to cruise?  Those who have FCCs and the senior citizens whose pensions have been safeguarded throughout the pandemic are probably the only ones in the short term.  The industry needs to think very carefully how to handle its older passengers.

[cruisemom42]

15 hours ago, lynncarol said:

My husband and I are both in our midseventies, still very active (hiking an hour each day over hilly terrain) and on no medications.  Are you saying that we are more likely to present a health risk than an overweight, diabetic,  inactive 40 year old who is a heavy drinker?  

 

Yes -- as it relates to COVID-19. 

 

Have you not seen the mortality graphs -- people over 70 are roughly twice as likely to die, having become infected, than the next lowest age group, and many times more likely than lower age groups. And if you are over 70 and have associated conditions, the risk is even greater. Also, when this population contracts the virus, they are much more likely to need intensive medical support, such as ventilators.

 

You have to understand that this is a reaction to COVID-19, not to general conditions. Cruise ships cannot handle ICU cases and would quickly become overwhelmed.

 

Think of it this way:  Cruise ships restrict women in their last trimester from cruising because if their child was born prematurely, there are not facilities on board to care for it. Is it discriminatory?  Yes, in the strictest sense of the word -- clearly not EVERY pregnant woman in her last weeks is an equal risk. But is it legal?  Yes, because there is a grave enough risk to the life of the child to make it compelling.

 

It is exactly the same with over 70 cruisers and COVID-19.

 

From a recent CDC report on COVID-19 infections on cruise ships:

 

Passengers on certain cruise ship voyages might be aged ≥65 years, which places them at greater risk for severe consequences of SARS-CoV-2 infection.

 

And also, talking about Diamond Princess in particular:

 

As of March 13, among 428 U.S. passengers and crew, 107 (25.0%) had positive test results for COVID-19; 11 U.S. passengers remain hospitalized in Japan (median age = 75 years), including seven in serious condition (median age = 76 years).

Edited April 22, 2020 by cruisemom42

[chengkp75]

While a lot of what is stated in the article is common sense, and natural for an industry re-starting operations, it is not like these will be long term, or permanent conditions.  Also, I'm not sure that the restrictions on who can cruise will remain in the long term.  While a ship has a duty to maintain a "standard of care" for a passenger, the courts have long ruled that unlike for crew, the ship owner is "not an insurer of the passenger's safety", and therefore the passenger accepts some responsibility if the risks are known.  If there is a form to acknowledge about health risks when booking, and one to sign when checking in, I think for the most part that covers the cruise lines, and that would be the way they go, unless a government agency like the CDC comes up with a reason that people with certain conditions should never cruise, and I don't see that happening either.

[CruisingAlong4Now]

CDC Guidelines (as of 6/24/2019), still relevant if followed.

 

ADVICE FOR CLINICIANS GIVING PRETRAVEL CRUISE CONSULTATIONS

Risk Assessment and Risk Communication

• Discuss itinerary, including season, duration of travel, and activities at port stops.
• Review the traveler’s medical and immunization history, allergies, and special health needs.
• Discuss relevant travel-specific health hazards and risk reduction.
• Provide the traveler with documentation of his or her medical history, immunizations, and medications.

Immunization and Risk Management

• Provide immunizations that are routinely recommended (age-specific), required (yellow fever), and recommended based on risk.
• Discuss food and water precautions and insect-bite prevention.
• Older travelers, especially those with a history of heart disease, should carry a baseline electrocardiogram to facilitate onboard or overseas medical care.

Medications Based on Risk and Need

• Consider malaria chemoprophylaxis if itinerary includes port stops in malaria-endemic areas.
• Consider motion sickness medications for self-treatment (see Motion Sickness in this chapter).

PRECAUTIONS FOR CRUISE SHIP TRAVELERS

Pretravel

• Evaluate the type and length of the planned cruise in the context of personal health requirements.
• Consult medical and dental providers before cruise travel.
• Notify cruise line of special needs (such as wheelchair access, dialysis, oxygen tank).
• Consider additional insurance for overseas health care and medical evacuation.
• Carry prescription medications in original containers, with a copy of the prescription and accompanying physician’s letter.
• Bring EPA-registered insect repellent and sunscreen, and consider treating clothes and gear with permethrin.
• Defer travel while acutely ill.
• Consult wwwnc.cdc.gov/travel/notices for travel health notices.
• Check www.cdc.gov/nceh/vsp/surv/gilist.htm for gastrointestinal outbreaks.

During Travel

• Wash hands frequently with soap and water. If soap and water are not available, use an alcohol-based sanitizer that contains ≥60% alcohol.
• Follow safe food and water precautions when eating off the ship at ports of call.
• Use measures to prevent insect bites during port visits, especially in malaria- or dengue-endemic areas or areas where outbreaks of vectorborne diseases, such as chikungunya and Zika, are occurring.
• Use sun protection.
• Maintain good fluid intake, and avoid excessive alcohol consumption.
• Avoid contact with ill people.
• If sexually active, practice safe sex.
• Report illness to ship’s medical center and follow medical recommendations.

[clo]

6 hours ago, babs135 said:

And who will have the ultimate decision as to whether we can travel - the doctor or the cruiseline?

I'd say neither but rather individual countries. And definitely NOT cruiselines. They have a solid reason to allow people ON.

[navybankerteacher]

3 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Yes -- as it relates to COVID-19. 

 

Have you not seen the mortality graphs -- people over 70 are roughly twice as likely to die, having become infected, than the next lowest age group, and many times more likely than lower age groups. And if you are over 70 and have associated conditions, the risk is even greater. Also, when this population contracts the virus, they are much more likely to need intensive medical support, such as ventilators.

 

You have to understand that this is a reaction to COVID-19, not to general conditions. Cruise ships cannot handle ICU cases and would quickly become overwhelmed.

 

Think of it this way:  Cruise ships restrict women in their last trimester from cruising because if their child was born prematurely, there are not facilities on board to care for it. Is it discriminatory?  Yes, in the strictest sense of the word -- clearly not EVERY pregnant woman in her last weeks is an equal risk. But is it legal?  Yes, because there is a grave enough risk to the life of the child to make it compelling.

 

It is exactly the same with over 70 cruisers and COVID-19.

 

From a recent CDC report on COVID-19 infections on cruise ships:

 

Passengers on certain cruise ship voyages might be aged ≥65 years, which places them at greater risk for severe consequences of SARS-CoV-2 infection.

 

And also, talking about Diamond Princess in particular:

 

As of March 13, among 428 U.S. passengers and crew, 107 (25.0%) had positive test results for COVID-19; 11 U.S. passengers remain hospitalized in Japan (median age = 75 years), including seven in serious condition (median age = 76 years).

The problem is that being selective based upon risk factors may apply in more areas than just age:  in Britain it has been widely reported that the “BAME” group (Black Asian Minority Ethnic) is at significantly higher risk of COVID 19 complications.  Consider the implications of applying discriminatory pricing in that context.

[cruisemom42]

1 hour ago, navybankerteacher said:

The problem is that being selective based upon risk factors may apply in more areas than just age:  in Britain it has been widely reported that the “BAME” group (Black Asian Minority Ethnic) is at significantly higher risk of COVID 19 complications.  Consider the implications of applying discriminatory pricing in that context.

 

But if you tease out various confounders (such as access to care, lack of ability to isolate due to jobs that require on-work present [more common in lower income groups], lack of understanding of mandates/warning) is there still a disparity?  I think that still is not clear.

 

[navybankerteacher]

8 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

But if you tease out various confounders (such as access to care, lack of ability to isolate due to jobs that require on-work present [more common in lower income groups], lack of understanding of mandates/warning) is there still a disparity?  I think that still is not clear.

 

The confounders you cite may very well apply in the US - but certainly a lot less in the UK, given their NHS - as well as some preliminary studies.

[jocap]

On 4/21/2020 at 9:59 PM, Charles4515 said:

 

Anyone can file a suit but they can discriminate by age. There are currently adult only cruises. Many cruise lines have a minimum age of 21. Infants must be 6 months.


Sent from my iPhone using Forums

 

And Saga cruises accept no-one under 50 years old.

[lenquixote66]

On 4/21/2020 at 1:35 PM, chipmaster said:

https://thepointsguy.com/guide/cruising-changes-caused-by-coronavirus/

 

No more self serve buffets ( yeah, never liked them ),  restrictions on who can travel (good keep to the health and low risk ) , health screening ( yup only health people ), wash scrub wash all the time ( good, to lax before ), much cheaper ( yeah right, prices must go up to support near bankrupt companies ), less crowded ( all right and have to be more expensive ), fewer ships ( you bet! ),shorter sailings ( can imagine you ain't docking here in my country with thousands of carriers ),  relaxed cancellations ( more credit, LOL )

 

Something that nobody has posted,I believe. What to do about urinals .You cannot stand 6 feet away from somebody.You cannot set a limit on who can enter.

[mom says]

29 minutes ago, lenquixote66 said:

Something that nobody has posted,I believe. What to do about urinals .You cannot stand 6 feet away from somebody.You cannot set a limit on who can enter.

If you're that worried, use a stall.

[lenquixote66]

Just now, mom says said:

If you're that worried, use a stall.

I cannot use a stall. However,I am not talking about myself but rather for everyone needing a bathroom. I have not used a public bathroom in quite some time.

[davekathy]

On 4/21/2020 at 11:35 AM, chipmaster said:

https://thepointsguy.com/guide/cruising-changes-caused-by-coronavirus/

 

No more self serve buffets ( yeah, never liked them ),  restrictions on who can travel (good keep to the health and low risk ) , health screening ( yup only health people ), wash scrub wash all the time ( good, to lax before ), much cheaper ( yeah right, prices must go up to support near bankrupt companies ), less crowded ( all right and have to be more expensive ), fewer ships ( you bet! ),shorter sailings ( can imagine you ain't docking here in my country with thousands of carriers ),  relaxed cancellations ( more credit, LOL )

 

Dream on.