More depressing news

[babs135]

We knew it was happening but it's still depressing to see it in black and white

 

 

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/coronavirus/all-big-uk-airlines-and-travel-firms-denying-refunds-which-finds/ar-BB131auQ?ocid=spartandhp

[nosapphire]

Given the number of cancelled bookings, just the administration must make it impossible to get refunds out within 14 days.

And I can't blame any company for asking that you rebook or take a credit note against a future booking.

But I would certainly not book again with any company that tried to bluff me into believing that I could only have a credit note or rebooking, that a refund was not possible.

Some companies seem to be coming out better than others, not in getting payments out faster, but in making it clear that a refund is an option.

 

[Aulanis]

Pretty much old news -  see here

 

[clarky213]

On 4/22/2020 at 11:33 AM, Aulanis said:

Pretty much old news -  see here

 

 

Yes, old news, but the Law hasn't changed.

[nosapphire]

The ABTA page shows it slightly differently. They seem to be saying that they are not trying to cancel refunds, but they are worried about travel/tour companies/agencies bankrupting themselves by trying to issue cash refunds within the time limit. The credit note they talk about is basically a form of IOU, underwritten by ABTA.

As quoted:

In the absence of this Government intervention, and to provide some order to a chaotic situation brought about by the current crisis, ABTA has developed guidance framework for its Members to ensure that if there is a delay in providing a refund, customers don’t lose their rights and protections, and that Members process refunds as soon as they are able to. This is based on a system of financially-protected Refund Credit Notes (RCNs) where the customer’s fundamental rights are preserved, as set out by law (the Package Travel Regulations). Notwithstanding the issuing of Refund Credit Notes, ABTA’s expectation is that Members should refund customers as soon as they are able to.

We have also prepared information for customers, which makes it clear what an RCN is and what information customers should look out for if a company offers you one.
END QUOTE:

The link to ABTA is

https://www.abta.com/news/coronavirus-outbreak

and in the questions and answers page it specifies that anyone accepting a credit note needs to make sure it is an ABTA approved RCN, not a voucher which does not have any refund promise.

 

[MicCanberra]

Interesting article.

[Aulanis]

On 4/23/2020 at 5:06 PM, nosapphire said:

they are worried about travel/tour companies/agencies bankrupting themselves by trying to issue cash refunds within the time limit.

 

Hmm  - or maybe they are worried that if there are a lot of failures they or Atol will 

have to make it good?

[Sancho_proudfoot]

So here's my take on the cancellation refund/ credit note stuff:

 

We have a 21 night cruise booked, departing Barcelona on 14 November. We have paid deposits ( of course) and a further sum to secure our flights both outbound to Spain and inbound from Dubai.

 

We haven't yet reached 'final balance due' date ( mid August). We have the full balance sitting in a savings account ( on which we now earn a paltry 0.01% pa interest).

 

If the due date comes and MSC haven't cancelled, we'll pay up. If having paid up, it is then cancelled, we'll take the credit certificate, and hopefully book the same cruise ( or a very similar one) for 2021.

 

If it's cancelled before final balance due then again we'll take the FCC to rebook for 2021.

 

If the cruise does go ahead, whooppeee. If it doesn't, we'll pick up a non- cruise holiday in the winter, somewhere hot and all-inclusive to tide us over until the 2021 cruise comes around.

 

I'm slightly concerned with folk who want the refund immediately, saying " we need the money now". If it's not being used to book a replacement cruise or holiday, but needed for day to day life, then maybe it was too expensive to begin with.

[FionaL91]

On 5/6/2020 at 1:18 PM, Sancho_proudfoot said:

So here's my take on the cancellation refund/ credit note stuff:

 

We have a 21 night cruise booked, departing Barcelona on 14 November. We have paid deposits ( of course) and a further sum to secure our flights both outbound to Spain and inbound from Dubai.

 

We haven't yet reached 'final balance due' date ( mid August). We have the full balance sitting in a savings account ( on which we now earn a paltry 0.01% pa interest).

 

If the due date comes and MSC haven't cancelled, we'll pay up. If having paid up, it is then cancelled, we'll take the credit certificate, and hopefully book the same cruise ( or a very similar one) for 2021.

 

If it's cancelled before final balance due then again we'll take the FCC to rebook for 2021.

 

If the cruise does go ahead, whooppeee. If it doesn't, we'll pick up a non- cruise holiday in the winter, somewhere hot and all-inclusive to tide us over until the 2021 cruise comes around.

 

I'm slightly concerned with folk who want the refund immediately, saying " we need the money now". If it's not being used to book a replacement cruise or holiday, but needed for day to day life, then maybe it was too expensive to begin with.

 

Or maybe people have lost their jobs / have severely restricted incomes after saving to go on a cruise and do need the money now. It's not for you to judge how people spend their money. If they can afford it it's not too expensive for them.

 

I wouldn't be leaving money with companies that will potentially go bankrupt for future credit when borders potentially won't open for a year. I know if I was in countries such as Australia and New Zealand I wouldn't allow a load of tourists from the UK or US until there is a vaccine. 

[Sancho_proudfoot]

On 5/8/2020 at 12:18 AM, FionaL91 said:

 

Or maybe people have lost their jobs / have severely restricted incomes after saving to go on a cruise and do need the money now. It's not for you to judge how people spend their money. If they can afford it it's not too expensive for them.

 

I wouldn't be leaving money with companies that will potentially go bankrupt for future credit when borders potentially won't open for a year. I know if I was in countries such as Australia and New Zealand I wouldn't allow a load of tourists from the UK or US until there is a vaccine. 

A) I wasn't judging, merely expressing my opinion. Disagree with my opinion by all means, but don't label my opinion with your views

B) as my original post says, we're booked with MSC. As discussed extensively elsewhere on CC , of all cruise lines MSC are probably the least likely to go bankrupt.

C) "potentially won't open (borders) for a year" - in your opinion. I disagree.

[Roger88]

These people are very rarely letting go of their money. Moreover, there are very few people who booking for this year right now. Those who have booked already are waiting for a refund. I doubt that the situation will change anyhow in the upcoming months. My best guess is 2021. I heard the demand is like super high

[babs135]

On 5/6/2020 at 1:18 PM, Sancho_proudfoot said:

So here's my take on the cancellation refund/ credit note stuff:

 

We have a 21 night cruise booked, departing Barcelona on 14 November. We have paid deposits ( of course) and a further sum to secure our flights both outbound to Spain and inbound from Dubai.

 

We haven't yet reached 'final balance due' date ( mid August). We have the full balance sitting in a savings account ( on which we now earn a paltry 0.01% pa interest).

 

If the due date comes and MSC haven't cancelled, we'll pay up. If having paid up, it is then cancelled, we'll take the credit certificate, and hopefully book the same cruise ( or a very similar one) for 2021.

 

If it's cancelled before final balance due then again we'll take the FCC to rebook for 2021.

 

If the cruise does go ahead, whooppeee. If it doesn't, we'll pick up a non- cruise holiday in the winter, somewhere hot and all-inclusive to tide us over until the 2021 cruise comes around.

 

I'm slightly concerned with folk who want the refund immediately, saying " we need the money now". If it's not being used to book a replacement cruise or holiday, but needed for day to day life, then maybe it was too expensive to begin with.

Your final paragraph is interesting.  The balance for our October cruise is due in mid-June and we are hoping to transfer the deposit to next year BEFORE we have to pay ££££ to Cunard.  If it can't be done then we will cancel and forfeit the deposit.  We are simply not prepared to give the cruise line any more money at this time.  We could afford to pay the amount but we are not a charity and feel that to give the company our money for a cruise 16 months away when the future is still so uncertain would be foolish on our part.  Neither do we want future credit.  We'll keep our money in the bank where it will earn a pathetic amount of interest for us, not for Cunard.

[nosapphire]

Much depends on how much people still want to cruise.

Those who are determined to get a cruise in at least next year will want to keep their money with the cruise line to make sure they get the best possible deal (and the earliest option).

Those who are less keen,  who maybe feel that for a while they won't want to go on cruises, perhaps stay in their home country for a year or so, will want to get their money back rather than leave it with the cruise line.

Neither side are "right" or "wrong", it all depends on individual circumstances and feelings.

Incidentally, I have not seen anyone say they  need their money back, but plenty saying they want it back. There is a difference.