Royal files trademark application for "EMUSTER"

[rolloman]

1 hour ago, BND said:

He's a chief engineer on commercial sea vessels and has also worked on cruise ships.  I think he's pretty well versed in maritime law.

I have read this before but just curious to how you know this? Personal friend? Worked with him onboard a vessel?  Or did you just read this on an internet message chat board and took it as the gospel? Personally makes no difference to me....but I think its wise to not blindly follow internet chat board characters whom you have never met. I was in the Navy for years and served onboard out at sea on warships in the engineering department so thanks for the heads up on the acronym definition for the term cheng, I am sure others may find it interesting.  By the way this particular cheng has made it clear in the past he is not a fan of the US Navy.....just saying....

[BND]

1 minute ago, rolloman said:

I have read this before but just curious to how you know this? Personal friend? Worked with him onboard a vessel?  Or did you just read this on an internet message chat board and took it as the gospel? Personally makes no difference to me....but I think its wise to not blindly follow internet chat board characters whom you have never met. I was in the Navy for years and served onboard out at sea on warships in the engineering department so thanks for the heads up on the acronym definition for the term cheng, I am sure others may find it interesting.  By the way this particular cheng has made it clear in the past he is not a fan of the US Navy.....just saying....

You can believe (or not) what you want.  My husband is a retired 0-6 (Navy)- 30 years, and he agrees with cheng on his posts about maritime law, etc.  It doesn't matter if he's a fan of the US Navy or not.  He does know his stuff and has posted a lot of correct info over the years.  What did he post about SOLAS that is incorrect?   You've thrown out a lot of opinions about the current situation yourself.  Do we take you as knowing it all?

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, Biker19 said:

The thing is, how "realistic" were muster drills before COVID19? What's the diff between someone walking down with just a few people and seeing the safety demo vs. being joined in the same exact info session by a few thousand? Is experiencing the mad dash for the elevator/stairs after the drill part of the "realistic" requirement? Is waiting for the late stragglers part of the "drill"? Is being squished in on the lifeboat deck (only on some ships) something that has to be experienced to satisfy the "drill"? I have a feeling the cruise line lawyers are already trying to figure out a way to satisfy SOLAS requirements but with alternative ways to accomplish them. 

Yes, the experience of everyone moving to muster at the same time is a "realistic" part of the drill.  Is just knowing where you are to gather when there is a fire in your building the same as seeing everyone going down the stairs and having everyone in the building standing outside?  Which would lead you to remember what to do better?  Let's see:  "the mad dash to the elevators" is after the drill.  Stragglers is actually part of the drill, because that's what's going to actually happen in an emergency.  Being placed in close confinement with others at the lifeboat deck is what would happen in an emergency.  Or do you think that you would be allowed to saunter in over a 2 hour period during a fire?  Additionally, it is not just the passengers who are being "trained" during the muster drill, it is the crew as well, and without the "herd of cats", their drill training cannot be realistic.  And, for the most part, regardless of what a cruise line lawyer may think up as a means to accomplish a passenger drill, it would need to be written into the cruise line's ISM manual, and that would need to be reviewed by a third party auditor to determine if they think it meets SOLAS, and then each and every time the ship is audited, it would be up to the auditor to determine in their opinion whether it meets SOLAS.

[Sam Ting]

So it sounds like they trademarked it just for fun.  I guess there was nothing better for them to do   

[zekekelso]

There are two types of people in the world... those who go to muster drills and think “yep, this is perfect.” And those that think, “there’s got to be a better way.”

[Sam Ting]

Somehow when the ship starts to sink, I think the evacuation will have little resemblance to the muster drill anyway. 

[wolfcathorse]

On 4/25/2020 at 4:39 AM, ZiggaZagga17 said:

I guess the only 'spanner in the works' for this idea (of which I thought would/could happen myself) is whether maritime law over rules a way of allowing cruise lines to resume their business!

I

When RCI wanted to do away with wearing life jackets at muster, they had to submit a proposal to the USCG which reviewed it then observed a drill on a ship. Then they authorized muster drills could be held without life jackets. I imagine any new drill format would go the same way. First a written proposal, a review by the authorities, followed by observation of an actual drill, review of the results, change suggestions, RCI tweaks proposal, starts the cycle again then finally gets approval from the USCG to do eMuster.

[chengkp75]

7 minutes ago, wolfcathorse said:

When RCI wanted to do away with wearing life jackets at muster, they had to submit a proposal to the USCG which reviewed it then observed a drill on a ship. Then they authorized muster drills could be held without life jackets. I imagine any new drill format would go the same way. First a written proposal, a review by the authorities, followed by observation of an actual drill, review of the results, change suggestions, RCI tweaks proposal, starts the cycle again then finally gets approval from the USCG to do eMuster.

Since the USCG has little control over the cruise lines, this may have been a submission to the USCG as "port state", which then submitted this to the IMO.  How the cruise line performs the passenger muster drill must be written into the cruise line's ISM code, which must be approved by an outside auditor (not the USCG), typically the class society, which will only approve a change if it still meets the underlying requirements of SOLAS, which requires IMO action to change.  The USCG could say that, in their opinion, doing the drill without life jackets would not violate SOLAS, and that they would not require it when inspecting the ships, in the US, but it could not become company policy just on one "port state" nation's decision.

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, zekekelso said:

There are two types of people in the world... those who go to muster drills and think “yep, this is perfect.” And those that think, “there’s got to be a better way.”

Is muster drill perfect?  Probably not.  Is there a better way?  Possibly.  Is it possible for the cruise line to change it in any way?  Not legally.

[rolloman]

1 hour ago, zekekelso said:

There are two types of people in the world... those who go to muster drills and think “yep, this is perfect.” And those that think, “there’s got to be a better way.”

Exactly.... in this case, regardless of what certain individuals want you to believe, it is becoming obvious the soon to be new muster system will be fast tracked for approval. I would not be surprised if it is already in the works and will be in place once cruising resumes this fall. The old system was/is in need of a makeover. What a joke it has been lately, in some cases, meet on the promenade/theater/casino/whatever to watch a cartoon like video, cruise directors practicing stand up comedy while reading important information....  According to what I have read, the Concordia incident was a disaster, everything from lack of knowledge lowering the boats, to flat out refusal by some muster station assigned crew to participate. Yeah...it needs a make over and with the cruise industry hanging on by a thread...fast tracked approval..just remember, not too long ago lead paint and asbestos were considered "good" things.....

[time4u2go]

32 minutes ago, rolloman said:

Exactly.... in this case, regardless of what certain individuals want you to believe, it is becoming obvious the soon to be new muster system will be fast tracked for approval. I would not be surprised if it is already in the works and will be in place once cruising resumes this fall. The old system was/is in need of a makeover. What a joke it has been lately, in some cases, meet on the promenade/theater/casino/whatever to watch a cartoon like video, cruise directors practicing stand up comedy while reading important information....  According to what I have read, the Concordia incident was a disaster, everything from lack of knowledge lowering the boats, to flat out refusal by some muster station assigned crew to participate. Yeah...it needs a make over and with the cruise industry hanging on by a thread...fast tracked approval..just remember, not too long ago lead paint and asbestos were considered "good" things.....

Fast tracked for approval?  Do you know something the rest of us don't?  Have the member nations of the IMO agreed to this fast track approval?  I would think they probably have other things to think about right now.

[spookwife]

2 hours ago, BND said:

You can believe (or not) what you want.  My husband is a retired 0-6 (Navy)- 30 years, and he agrees with cheng on his posts about maritime law, etc.  It doesn't matter if he's a fan of the US Navy or not.  He does know his stuff and has posted a lot of correct info over the years.  What did he post about SOLAS that is incorrect?   You've thrown out a lot of opinions about the current situation yourself.  Do we take you as knowing it all?

And mine is a retired Navy O4.  With SWO pin.  And IIRC, CHENG HAS in the past provided credentials.  And he frequently provides credible links from verifiable independent and legal sources.  In other words, @rolloman if you want to verify his claims independently, it’s easily done.  You don’t have to take the word of his CC ‘cheerleaders’

[compman9]

6 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

All quite easy to do, except for #4, since it does not meet SOLAS requirements for a passenger muster, so you would need to get the IMO to amend SOLAS before this could be done, and since it does not meet the requirement that the muster be a "drill" or as "realistic as possible", I doubt the maritime safety experts would allow this.

 

I wrote that after I read the SOLAS requirements

 

I must have missed what you are referring to - Please tell me why the following cannot be done:

 

Stage 1. You have to watch a safety video at home before you can complete check in

Stage 2. You have to watch a second safety video in the check-in terminal before you board

Stage 3. You have to watch a third safety video in your room - At the end your muster station is revealed

Stage 4. You have to visit your muster station to get your name checked off in a two hour period on the first day

[Tapi]

Curious. Is it required by law to attend a muster drill at the assigned muster station? When we sailed on MSC Meraviglia in the Mediterranean (where passengers begin and end their cruise at each port of call), a modified muster drill for embarking passengers was performed at the main theatre on a daily basis. We didn’t have to go to our assigned muster station. We went to the practically empty main theatre along with a handful of embarking passengers, watched crew members don their life jacket and give a quick presentation. We were out the door in 5 minutes. No disruption to other activities throughout the ship. No crowds and no mad rush. 
 

By the way, I think that creating itineraries with multiple embarkation points (as well as having continuous muster drill demonstrations that people can attend as they board the ship) could help alleviate the mad rush and the crowds as we experienced on our MSC Med cruise. In the US, for example, cruise lines used to offer Western Caribbean cruises that embarked in both Tampa and New Orleans. If they could board 50% of passengers in one port and the other 50% at the other, this could tremendously alleviate the crowding issues normally associated with embarkation/debarkation day during check in, boarding, first day lunch, and muster drill, etc. Just a thought. Yes, I know, not the most desirable itinerary, but maybe something to do while social distancing protocols are eased. 

[Tapi]

On 4/25/2020 at 2:59 AM, ARandomTraveler said:

I opened this thinking it was a joke about doing muster over zoom or something. 

You did better than me. I thought that Royal was planning on naming one of their new builds Emuster of the Seas. I was like “what the heck is Emuster and why would they name a ship that??” 🤪

[Billy Baltic]

Since this thread is taking all wacky suggestions. I reckon this is the solution. Just throw $50 on the price of a cruise, throw on these for muster and lets get the sail away party started 😂
 

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, compman9 said:

 

I wrote that after I read the SOLAS requirements

 

I must have missed what you are referring to - Please tell me why the following cannot be done:

 

Stage 1. You have to watch a safety video at home before you can complete check in

Stage 2. You have to watch a second safety video in the check-in terminal before you board

Stage 3. You have to watch a third safety video in your room - At the end your muster station is revealed

Stage 4. You have to visit your muster station to get your name checked off in a two hour period on the first day

Here is a press release from the IMO regarding the changes in passenger muster drills adopted by the IMO after the Costa Concordia:

 

http://www.imo.org/en/MediaCentre/MeetingSummaries/MSC/Pages/MSC-92nd-session.aspx

 

This comments on the amendments adopted from the MSC (Maritime Safety Committee), and it notes:

 

"Passenger drill amendments adopted

The MSC adopted amendments SOLAS regulation III/19 to require musters of newly embarked passengers prior to or immediately upon departure, instead of “within 24 hours”, as stated in the current regulations. The amendments are expected to enter into force on 1 January 2015.

 

Note the bolding in the title "passenger drill", and the bolded word "muster".  The muster is part of a drill.  The drill, according to Rule III-19.3.1 "shall, as far as practicable, be conducted as if there were an actual emergency".

 

I don't believe that the IMO intends that guests sauntering in to have their passes scanned over a couple of hours constitutes a "drill", nor a "muster".

 

But, hey, I've only worked with IMO and SOLAS for 40+ years, so think what you want.

[zekekelso]

For the record, I’ve never been in the Navy. My spouse has never been in the navy. She does own some village people cd’s if that means anything. To the best of my knowledge, I don’t know of a single ancestor of mine that was ever in the Navy. My entire knowledges comes from..,

 

1) Attending many muster drills and thinking they were dumb. Not the concept, the execution.

 

2) Attending newer muster drills where things had changed. For the better. No life jackets!

 

3) Applying a bit of (perhaps misguided) logic and thinking that if they’ve been changed for the better in the past, they can be changed for them better again. 
 

4) Pure wishful thinking that if regulations are about to change to make cruising more annoying, the industry might be able to leverage that to also get some of the currently annoying regulations changed for the better. 
 

5) Having read many, many posts in the past saying it was impossible (and poor safety) to get rid of life vests, having a mistrust of posters saying change can’t happen. 
 

we’ll see 
 

 

[time4u2go]

1 hour ago, compman9 said:

 

I wrote that after I read the SOLAS requirements

 

I must have missed what you are referring to - Please tell me why the following cannot be done:

 

Stage 1. You have to watch a safety video at home before you can complete check in

Stage 2. You have to watch a second safety video in the check-in terminal before you board

Stage 3. You have to watch a third safety video in your room - At the end your muster station is revealed

Stage 4. You have to visit your muster station to get your name checked off in a two hour period on the first day

For Stage 3, I'm guessing that the muster station and location probably have to be permanently and constantly displayed somewhere in the room, like on the door.  I wouldn't think it's allowed to only reveal it after watching a video.

[rolloman]

3 hours ago, time4u2go said:

Fast tracked for approval?  Do you know something the rest of us don't?  Have the member nations of the IMO agreed to this fast track approval?  I would think they probably have other things to think about right now.

Thanks, once again, for reading and continuously responding to each and every one of my posts. I am glad they continue to be of great interest for you. Have a good day. 

[FranMar16]

Maybe it's just a device to show you were at the muster drill without having your card scanned?  Similar to this  http://www.s3-id.com/emuster.html

 

[HBE4]

On 4/28/2020 at 2:11 PM, Billy Baltic said:

Since this thread is taking all wacky suggestions. I reckon this is the solution. Just throw $50 on the price of a cruise, throw on these for muster and lets get the sail away party started 😂
 

 

Picture quoted for effect.

 

Probably the best idea I've seen. Each mask can be customized with the ships name and sail date. Perhaps different colors to reflect C&A status.

 

Soon people will be swapping or selling them on ebay or craigslist. I imagine the ones from the first post-pandemic sailings would command a premium.

 

 

 

 

[Biker19]

Somewhat related:

 

 

Royal Caribbean International has filed a trademark application with the United States Patent and Trademark Office for a new device to be called "Tracelet."

 

The application, which describes the service mark registration for Tracelet as "Rubber or silicone wristbands in the nature of a bracelet," was filed on October 15, 2020 under the subcategory of "cruise ship services."

 

Given the name, it is not unreasonable to expect Royal Caribbean's new Tracelet to function as a wearable RFID contact tracing device that could be used to mitigate any potential spread of COVID-19 that might occur onboard.

 

Contact tracing is essential in the fight against COVID-19, allowing potential positive exposures to be isolated to further prevent the spread of the coronavirus. In their return to cruising, MSC Cruises has adapted its existing "MSC for Me" bracelet for contact-tracing purposes onboard its first Mediterranean sailings. In the past, the wristband has been used to complete transactions onboard and to perform functions like opening stateroom doors. Now, it aids in quickly determining potential risk cases onboard should a COVID outbreak occur.

 

Princess Cruises' Ocean Medallion technology would allow for contact tracing as well, and it has already been adopted in a slightly modified fashion for use aboard sister-brand Costa Cruises.

[sandebeach]

24 minutes ago, Biker19 said:

Somewhat related:

 

 

This sounds similar to what MSC has done with their new wrist bracelets. 

[BirdTravels]

Seems straight forward and much more serious (as it should be) than the silly comedy video. As long as you have to go to the station once so that you know where it is.