Think Princess cares...Think again

[BIGADORF]

Letter submitted to Customer Relations

My wife and I have a rather unique situation that I need help in solving.
Let me start out by stating that my wife and I are both Captains Circle Platinum members, have been loyal clients of Princess Cruises for many years and are shareholders in Carnival Cruise Lines, your parent company.
In March of 2019 we were booked on a 15 day Panama Canal Cruise. Approximately 2 weeks prior to the cruise, my wife underwent emergency brain surgery. We had the Platinum Insurance and we submitted a claim to the AON Insurance Company for a refund. They denied the claim stating that it was a preexisting condition. Since, upon knowing that surgery would be required and that we had rebooked the same cruise for April 2020 after cancelling the 2019 trip, I did not dispute the insurance companies claim and the final outcome that we only received Future Cruise Credit. I realize in hindsight, that my believing in Princess always doing the fair and equitable thing was naive on my part. I should have pursued a cash refund and not done what I considered the “right” thing at the time, I should have fought the Platinum Insurance outcome, even considered legal action if necessary. I believed that Princess Cruises would always support me as I have supported Princess Cruises.
Fast forwarding to March 2020, lightning struck again and my wife found out that she would have to have cervical spine surgery. The doctor advised us to cancel the April cruise and have the surgery immediately. He stated that based on her MRI she would not be safe and could have permanent damage without said surgery immediately. Due to the Pandemic that was not possible. Three days later Princess cancelled our trip due to the Coronavirus Pandemic. I filled out the paperwork in March using the option #2 for a refund and submitted it to Princess Cruises.
I am asking for a cash refund versus FCC based on the following information.
Princess Cruises has been in possession of almost $7476 of our money since January of 2019.
I have not been able to ascertain whether or not Princess was able to rebook our Minisuite Cabin to someone else for the March 2019 cruise. Based upon the cabin being in a sold out section of the ship for said cruise, I am inclined to believe that Princess was able to fill that cabin for that cruise.
My wife and I are both over the age of 70 and we both have immune disorders. I also have diabetes and a heart condition. Based upon our age, health issues and the outcome from my wife’s surgery in the next few weeks, we will never be able to cruise again after Princess starts sailing again.
In good faith, we had planned to continue to cruise with Princess, Also in good faith, I am requesting a cash refund of the FCC. We are both on fixed incomes and cannot afford to lose almost $7500. Thank you. Please respond.

 

Below is the request I sent to the CEO of Princess, after I was informed of their decision to not authorize a cash refund by a Customer Relations representative in response to the above letter

“Good afternoon Ms. Swartz. I know during this time of peril that you are very busy, but I hope

you will take the time, to help my wife and I.

Please see the attached letter I sent to the Customer Relations Department. I received a phone

call today from them, stating that I would not be getting a refund and that I would basically

lose the $7500, if I did not use it for a future cruise. Since my wife and I are no

longer physically able to cruise. We are both on fixed incomes and cannot afford to lose that

much money. I am asking you to review my request and reverse that decision. I am hoping that

you will do so.

A reply is requested. Thank you”

 

Yesterday, May 3 I heard from the Executive offices of Jan Swartz, I was told that they would not be refunding my money and that the FCC was the only thing they would allow. I have requested a written confirmation and also asked them to inform me if they were indeed able to resell the cabin for the original 2019 cruise.

 

Perhaps I am old fashioned in my thinking, but I have always believed that in any business transaction that “Fair and Equitable” means that if you pay for something, you should get something in return. Princess has had my money since December 2018, most likely was able to resell my cabin for the 2019 Cruise I cancelled. My wife and I are unable to cruise any longer, whether for our medical conditions, the Coronavirus, or any other circumstances. We still have not received any value. If you believe that Princess cruise has been “Fair and Equitable” that is up to you to decide. I for one do not believe they have been.
Based upon the final outcome, I will be seeking help and support from Social Media, government Consumer agencies, and TV and Newspaper Articles, Editorials and Consumer complaints. If this is the “New Normal” and that is how Princess is going to be doing business, perhaps a second thought in sailing with them is in order. “Buyer Beware” takes on a whole new importance.

I invite anyone who reads this post to post a copy of my attempt to get a refund, on his or her Facebook, Instagram, etc. accounts. I believe that everybody should be aware of how Princess Cruises has chosen to do business. I hope with this effort to educate people so that nobody else will suffer the same fate that my wife and I are experiencing. Thank you

[voljeep]

9 minutes ago, BIGADORF said:

I did not dispute the insurance companies claim and the final outcome that we only received Future Cruise Credit. I

and herein is the problem … 

 

good luck in getting a result to your mutual satisfaction

[voljeep]

12 minutes ago, BIGADORF said:

We had the Platinum Insurance and we submitted a claim to the AON Insurance Company for a refund. They denied the claim

delete ... for now

[dog]

So very sorry for you and your wife. If Princess denies you boarding based on age/ medical issues, then , indeed they should give a cash refund. 
Otherwise, like the rest of us, make sure to read the fine print, terms & conditions of insurance policies before purchasing them. That is a lot of money to be out, about twice as much as we pay for a cruise. Princess is a business and one in financial distress. Again,  my sincere sympathy to you & your wife. Please take care. , 

[BIGADORF]

One of the lessons this experience has taught me is not to so naive as to believe that businesses and people who run those businesses will do the right thing. Instead of making the insurance company, that Princess uses for their insurance, spend the manpower, time and money to my possible legal challenge, I took the high road and said "they will do the right thing" down the road if there is a problem. As for their denying the claim, her brain tumor was probably there since birth, so it was always a preexisting condition.

[dog]

3 minutes ago, BIGADORF said:

One of the lessons this experience has taught me is not to so naive as to believe that businesses and people who run those businesses will do the right thing. Instead of making the insurance company, that Princess uses for their insurance, spend the manpower, time and money to my possible legal challenge, I took the high road and said "they will do the right thing" down the road if there is a problem. As for their denying the claim, her brain tumor was probably there since birth, so it was always a preexisting condition.

my take on this, would be to have documentation from her doctor to back you up and go after the travel insurance company. 

Edited May 4, 2020 by dog

[simong]

bigadorf i wish you much luck getting a refund. princess/carnival corporation is on the ropes as we see on the various threads giving fcc vs refunds. the cruise industry played the edges by ships being foreign flagged paying pennies to crew working long hours. thats what made the costs so low. also preying on folks buying "art" selling for 20-50 times retail, overpriced shore excursions and rip off casinos. if they cant fill the ships they cant stay in business, so they cant have social distancing. so the bottom like they dont care i do wish you good luck

[Cash123]

It after all else fails and you don't get back a cash refund would you not be able to book a future cruise for someone you know, pay for it by your fcc and then get them to pay you the cash, I know this is not ideal but at least you may be able to get your money back.

[dog]

1 minute ago, Cash123 said:

It after all else fails and you don't get back a cash refund would you not be able to book a future cruise for someone you know, pay for it by your fcc and then get them to pay you the cash, I know this is not ideal but at least you may be able to get your money back.

No you cannot use FCC for someone else

[PrincessLuver]

It is so sad that Princess keeps sending out emails that they "care about us and are working so hard on non-existent refunds to date and asking people to be patient with them." 

 

Unfortunately,  your experience just highlights the fact that they are unwilling to show compassion to others who really have legitimate needs and need support and understanding.

 

Safe to say The Love boat is no more....

 

 

[Triptkr]

2 hours ago, BIGADORF said:

Three days later Princess cancelled our trip due to the Coronavirus Pandemic. I filled out the paperwork in March using the option #2 for a refund and submitted it to Princess Cruises.
I am asking for a cash refund versus FCC based on the following information.
Princess Cruises has been in possession of almost $7476 of our money since January of 2019.

I'm sure I'm missing something here...if you opted for option #2, then how can they not refund you your money? 

[dog]

17 minutes ago, Triptkr said:

I'm sure I'm missing something here...if you opted for option #2, then how can they not refund you your money? 

I believe their FCC were from their 2019 cancelled cruise, they then used it on their 2020 cruise Princess cancelled. They probably were not eligible for Option 2.   They had Platinum insurance ( cancel for any reason) in 2019 that only gave them FCC. Pre existing illness was not eligible for cash refund 

[RocketMan275]

2 hours ago, BIGADORF said:

Perhaps I am old fashioned in my thinking, but I have always believed that in any business transaction that “Fair and Equitable” means that if you pay for something, you should get something in return.

"Fair and Equitable" means following the terms of the contract.

 

 

[dog]

2 hours ago, BIGADORF said:

 

I invite anyone who reads this post to post a copy of my attempt to get a refund, on his or her Facebook, Instagram, etc. accounts. I believe that everybody should be aware of how Princess Cruises has chosen to do business. I hope with this effort to educate people so that nobody else will suffer the same fate that my wife and I are experiencing. Thank you

 

I would be very uncomfortable posting this re: health issues,  on my social media.

[Coral]

I am sorry for everything your family has been through. I think there are times when exceptions should be made.

[BIGADORF]

To answer rocketman275 that is legalize for "we don't care about what happens to you". Contracts don't automatically take away the concept of value received

 

 

 

equitable

[ ek-wi-tuh-buhl ]SHOW IPA

SEE SYNONYMS FOR equitable ON THESAURUS.COM

---

adjective

characterized by equity or fairness; just and right; fair; reasonable: equitable treatment of all citizens.

Law. 

1. pertaining to or valid in equity.
2. pertaining to the system of equity, as distinguished from the common law.

Edited May 4, 2020 by BIGADORF
added definition

[land lover]

OP it is frustrating, isn't it.....? It sounds to me like you are now requesting additional information from the cruise line...Still, it is possible for them to do what you think is the right thing....your situation is complicated..it certainly deserves a 2nd, 3rd or 4th look, don't give up on Princess so quickly. I speak from experience.  Good Luck...

 

 

 

Edited May 4, 2020 by land lover

[weberman]

My DW and I have been big Princess (Carnival) cruisers for along time. However, we have had some issues that were not resolved to our satisfaction but we accepted them reluctantly.(Too expensive to get a lawyer) However, with Carnival's current treatment of their customers we have lost all of that respect. Almost certainly won't sail them again. I got Norovirus attack on a Princess TA and that was horrible, but I can't imagine having to deal with Covid19.

 

Carnival is getting serious scrutiny in the way they have handled the Covid19 outbreak. Oh well such is life. Think I will browse some of the other cruise lines to see how things are going there.

 

Good Luck to all!

[Cruise Raider]

4 hours ago, BIGADORF said:

One of the lessons this experience has taught me is not to so naive as to believe that businesses and people who run those businesses will do the right thing. Instead of making the insurance company, that Princess uses for their insurance, spend the manpower, time and money to my possible legal challenge, I took the high road and said "they will do the right thing" down the road if there is a problem. As for their denying the claim, her brain tumor was probably there since birth, so it was always a preexisting condition.

 

You may want to check into Princess Vacation Protection's definition of pre-exisiting condition.  

 

*Please note the following restrictions: Princess will not waive their cancellation fee and provide a cash refund, should you cancel or interrupt your cruise vacation for any of the following reasons: • a condition that first presents, worsens, becomes acute, or has symptoms causing a person to seek diagnosis, care or treatment, or prompts a change in medication, during the 60 days before the Cancellation Fee Waiver Program is purchased

 

So, not sure if it is too late but if your wife's brain tumor was there since birth and you purchased the cruise and PVP plan in good faith without any acute flare up or treatment provided within 60 days of this purchase, you may still have grounds through the insurance to retrieve your money from the insurance company.  

I doubt at this point with all the cancellations, this is a problem that you can count on Princess to rectify.  But, maybe, if it isn't too late, you should revisit the insurance policy to see if your wife qualifies for a refund.  It's tricky since you had already accepted the FCCs.  

[pms4104]

I'm trying to understand AON's denial based on pre-existing condition.  

 

I buy 3rd party coverage, and I buy/pay for it in a timely manner so as to have the pre-existing condition waiver as part of my insurance coverage.

 

Is that not the case with Princess coverage?  If one actually pays for Princess coverage when depositing the sailing rather than with final payment, how does that impact lre-ex?  Or, does Princess coverage never cover pre-ex?

 

Does anyone know?  Like I said, I buy 3rd party, so I'm not familiar with Princess' program

 

Thanx for any info

[BIGADORF]

1 hour ago, Cruise Raider said:

 

You may want to check into Princess Vacation Protection's definition of pre-exisiting condition.  

 

*Please note the following restrictions: Princess will not waive their cancellation fee and provide a cash refund, should you cancel or interrupt your cruise vacation for any of the following reasons: • a condition that first presents, worsens, becomes acute, or has symptoms causing a person to seek diagnosis, care or treatment, or prompts a change in medication, during the 60 days before the Cancellation Fee Waiver Program is purchased

 

So, not sure if it is too late but if your wife's brain tumor was there since birth and you purchased the cruise and PVP plan in good faith without any acute flare up or treatment provided within 60 days of this purchase, you may still have grounds through the insurance to retrieve your money from the insurance company.  

I doubt at this point with all the cancellations, this is a problem that you can count on Princess to rectify.  But, maybe, if it isn't too late, you should revisit the insurance policy to see if your wife qualifies for a refund.  It's tricky since you had already accepted the FCCs.  

Unfortunately it was an acute flare up in 2019 or she wouldn’t have needed the emergency brain surgery. The whole point of my original post was to show how Princess operates. There are some things that are not within our control, like brain surgery, or Coronavirus, but the idea of not being able to use FCC for uncontrollable circumstances , I should be allowed to get a refund. They have had my money since December 2018, probably rebooked my cabin for the 2019 Cruise and I have absolutely nothing to show for it except a $7600 loss. I am only requesting that I get back what I paid since I received absolutely nothing.

[cruzsnooze]

4 hours ago, Triptkr said:

I'm sure I'm missing something here...if you opted for option #2, then how can they not refund you your money? 

Because they didn't use money, they used FCC from a cancelled cruise they cancelled. and requested.

 

 

Many of us used gift cards ( I used $10,000) that were turned into a FCC when our cruise was cancelled. Due to age and comorbidity the CDC guidelines exclude us from cruising. We are not able to get our money back. There are thousands of us wanting a refund but no one is getting one. The exceptions have become the rule in the current pandemic situation.

 

What would happen if you booked a cruise for someone else keeping yourself on the booking and later removed yourself. Would Princess claw back that FCC you used and demand cash? Probably not. Just a thought........

[neverbeenhere]

I say you can keep trying.

 

If you are successful in getting cash, don’t mention it here or on social media. As Princess would be “adjusting” the contract for you.  
 

Others would likely become very creative with their own stories in an attempt to come to the cash refund result. 

[blondee419]

Can you post their actual responses instead of your summary?  Sometimes it helps to have additional sets of eyes to parse out or interpret information. 

[land lover]

1 hour ago, neverbeenhere said:

I say you can keep trying.

 

If you are successful in getting cash, don’t mention it here or on social media. As Princess would be “adjusting” the contract for you.  
 

Others would likely become very creative with their own stories in an attempt to come to the cash refund result. 

 Totally agree with your view point...

Once people start posting about any exception made with a travel entity, policies often get adjusted or more strictly enforced.

Being on this site for 15 years and a cruiser since my honeymoon, with land trips thrown in..  Including a recent extra night on Panorama, March 7th in Long Beach due to the virus, I've been around. 

And most recently had my Olympics and Oberammergau plans cancelled, So I know how it feels to have the vendor hold my money with no refunds in the cards as of yet.

 

OP does have a complicated case and I truly believe if they are patient, Princess will work with them....

 

Princess has certainly worked with me in the past,

Presently I am had been dealing with something that occurred last November on a Princess cruise, I keep on delaying contact, one rep was helping me and then she took leave, I was waiting for her return and with the virus I figured, I could wait...now I am still  waiting LOL....Life is too short sometimes to worry about money....our health and sanity are so much more valuable.

 

OP.... best of luck...I truly believe you will prevail...because it simply makes sense. But who am I....hope your wife's health improves and you can enjoy land trips in the future, with your refund in cash. Take Care...

 

Edited May 5, 2020 by land lover