"Will It Be Safe to Travel When This Is All Over? Will We Even Know?"

[sverigecruiser]

4 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

If a significant majority of medical professionals ( which excludes politicians and cruise fanatics) weigh in on the topic, I will be inclined to accept their recommendations.

 

Some medical professionals say that people not used to wear masks touch their  faces more and also get a false feeling of security. Because of that they increase the risk of being infected and to infect other. I don't know if that is correct because I'm not an expert.

[sverigecruiser]

4 hours ago, calliopecruiser said:

So you would rather isolate yourself than go about the neighbourhood, city, or world, enjoying social interaction and activities?  OK then, you go for it.  But, in my opinion, if you care about other people you will wear a mask when around them (i.e. when you can't be socially distant).  Not until the curve is flattened, but until the curve is dropped significantly, for at least several weeks.   If you say "why should I care when others don't?", well, then, I've got nothing to say to such an uncaring and selfish attitude. 

 

I will not enjoy interaction and activities if I have to wear a mask so I rather isolate myself. As I said, I like my home so I don't mind to stay at home.

 

Do you seriously think that I'm selfish when I don't wear a mask when other people don't? Are you saying that I shall look at other people not wearing masks  and think that they are selfish for not wearing masks when I'm not wearing a mask myself? We just have to disagree about that.

[sverigecruiser]

4 hours ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

I would say the social distancing is a far more effective measure but a mask still helps after all medical professionals would not be demanding them if they were not useful to some capacity. It has to be said that Asian countries flattened their curves much faster than European nations and their citizens wear masks on a regular basis so maybe it helps slow down the spread sooner than without it.

 

When you say medical professionals do you mean people working in hospitals etc.? If yes I understand you because they get very close to their patients. I don't have to get that close to anyone so it's not the same thing for me. 

 

If masks are effective and people in Asian countries wear them on a regular basis do they really need to flatten their curves? Why do they get a curve to flatten if they wear masks?     

[calliopecruiser]

2 hours ago, sverigecruiser said:

Do you seriously think that I'm selfish when I don't wear a mask when other people don't?

Yes.

And yes. 

1 hour ago, sverigecruiser said:

If masks are effective and people in Asian countries wear them on a regular basis do they really need to flatten their curves? Why do they get a curve to flatten if they wear masks?   

Because we're not talking about high bio-security masks - we're talking about masks that decrease the microbe spray from someone's mouth significantly, but not entirely.  Even a surgical mask (let alone a cosmetic mask or a home made mask) only does a partial job.....The N95 masks are called that because they filter out 95% of the microbes, and your average person on the street is not wearing an N95 mask.

[ilikeanswers]

3 hours ago, sverigecruiser said:

If masks are effective and people in Asian countries wear them on a regular basis do they really need to flatten their curves? Why do they get a curve to flatten if they wear masks?     

 

No one is claiming that masks are 100% protection against infectious disease otherwise looking at medical professionals again they would never catch anything but you are claiming the extreme opposite that masks are merely face decorations not worth bothering with. Masks are an aide so people who cannot social distance have some protection versus absolutely nothing. There is plenty of evidence that shows masks do limit the spread of disease and looking at the countries that have been the most successful in combating the virus spread they have all been providing consistent supply of masks to their citizens 

[calliopecruiser]

1 hour ago, ilikeanswers said:

they have all been providing consistent supply of masks to their citizens 

It's more than supply, of course......it's a willingness (maybe even desire) to wear them.  For some of the countries, it's because they've been through severe SARS problems, and for others it's a cultural willingness to prioritize community safety and to trust government.  Or both. 

[clo]

1 minute ago, calliopecruiser said:

it's a cultural willingness to prioritize community safety

This^ for us anyway. It's so freaking easy. And, boy, do I give the "stink-eye" to anyone not wearing one 🙂

[sverigecruiser]

6 hours ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

No one is claiming that masks are 100% protection against infectious disease otherwise looking at medical professionals again they would never catch anything but you are claiming the extreme opposite that masks are merely face decorations not worth bothering with. Masks are an aide so people who cannot social distance have some protection versus absolutely nothing. There is plenty of evidence that shows masks do limit the spread of disease and looking at the countries that have been the most successful in combating the virus spread they have all been providing consistent supply of masks to their citizens 

 

In which post did I say that masks are merely face decorations? I don't remember saying that but apologize if I did. 

 

I agree with you that masks are good for people who cannot social distance, for example if they work with patients in hospitals.

 

Are you saying that Norway has not been successful in combating the virus spread? Very few people in Norway use a mask and I think they have been successful but you don't have to agree about that. 

[sverigecruiser]

5 hours ago, clo said:

This^ for us anyway. It's so freaking easy. And, boy, do I give the "stink-eye" to anyone not wearing one 🙂

 

The question is should you give other the "stink-eye" if you were not wearing a mask yourself?

 

When I see someone wearing a mask, and I have seen two people wearing a  mask in our grocery store, I keep an extra distance to them to protect them because I don't know their reason to wear a mask, they might be extra vulnerable.

 

If lots of people wear masks, when expert don't recommend it, it should be harder to keep a distance to thoose who are are extra vulnerable and wear a mask because of that.

 

You can look at folkhalsomyndigheten.se to see what The Public Health Agency of Sweden say about wearing masks. It's a Swedish site but in the upper right corner you can choose In English so that you can read it.     

Edited May 22, 2020 by sverigecruiser

[DarrenM]

You don't need to wear a  mask outside as along as you are over a metre away from others. You certainly dont need to wear one whilst driving your car........makes me laugh out loud when i see people doing this.

 

The masks used generally are to protect others from the mask wearer right?

 

The other annoying thing for me is those that wear gloves all the time in supermarkets and will touch food etc. And packaging.

 

The virus is more.likely to be on their gloves than any hand that got hand sanitised on the way in.

 

So glove wearers are the most selfish.

[calliopecruiser]

7 minutes ago, DarrenM said:

The masks used generally are to protect others from the mask wearer right?

Right, because there are a high percentage of asymptomatic carriers (compared with many other diseases).  We could be spreading Coronavirus without knowing it. 

[ilikeanswers]

6 hours ago, sverigecruiser said:

If lots of people wear masks, when expert don't recommend it, it should be harder to keep a distance to thoose who are are extra vulnerable and wear a mask because of that.

 

This must be a particularly Swedish thing as everywhere else in the world if you are practicing social distancing you should be doing it indiscriminately regardless of who is wearing a mask.

 

6 hours ago, sverigecruiser said:

In which post did I say that masks are merely face decorations? I don't remember saying that but apologize if I did.

 

The way your posts read to me sounded like you were saying masks are completely useless. That is the problem with text form communication, what it sounds like in your head and how others read it can be completely different. I have had the same problems many times😉

 

6 hours ago, sverigecruiser said:

Are you saying that Norway has not been successful in combating the virus spread? Very few people in Norway use a mask and I think they have been successful but you don't have to agree about that. 

 

Norway is doing well but they have not been as fast at flattening the curve as countries like South Korea, Hong Kong, Taiwan or even Austria. I'm not saying masks are the only reason but it can't be discounted as part of the reason. It is interesting that countries who have been proactive in the wearing of masks seem to be flattening curves quicker, whether this is correlation or causation only future research will tell but I think it would be a bit silly to discount masks as part of a strategy.

[calliopecruiser]

7 hours ago, sverigecruiser said:

If lots of people wear masks, when expert don't recommend it, it should be harder to keep a distance to thoose who are are extra vulnerable and wear a mask because of that.

You should keep the same distance from everyone and not try to guess who is extra vulnerable and who isn't.  After all, how could you know?  In fact, some of those "extra vulnerable" people might not know themselves, especially for Covid-19......and that's because new risk factors keep emerging.  At one point, it was thought that those with chronic respiratory problems like asthma were extra vulnerable, but it now turns out that's not the case.  Now, it seems, one of the big factors that makes one extra vulnerable to more serious disease seems to be high blood pressure (and there are a lot of people with hypertension who don't know it). 

 

(And many experts do recommend wearing masks when out around other people.  Perhaps not in Sweden?)

[clo]

7 hours ago, DarrenM said:

The virus is more.likely to be on their gloves than any hand that got hand sanitised on the way in.

 

Please provide evidence to support that. I've not seen that claim.

[ilikeanswers]

11 minutes ago, clo said:

Please provide evidence to support that. I've not seen that claim.

 

I think what the poster is referring to is the idea that wearing gloves could make you more likely to expose yourself to infection rather than the virus is somehow attracted to latex gloves:

 

Coronavirus: the danger of latex gloves

[clo]

26 minutes ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

I think what the poster is referring to is the idea that wearing gloves could make you more likely to expose yourself to infection rather than the virus is somehow attracted to latex gloves:

 

Coronavirus: the danger of latex gloves

Ah, gotcha. I was thinking about my hair dresser where she would change gloves going from one client to another helping to not carry stuff between us. At groceries I've not felt the need but we have a fresh wipe with us then

[ilikeanswers]

1 minute ago, clo said:

Ah, gotcha. I was thinking about my hair dresser where she would change gloves going from one client to another helping to not carry stuff between us. At groceries I've not felt the need but we have a fresh wipe with us then

 

If she is changing gloves between clients then that should be considerd good glove practice🤗.

[clo]

21 minutes ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

If she is changing gloves between clients then that should be considerd good glove practice🤗.

She owns this place and has done and is doing an admirable job.

[Aquahound]

8 hours ago, DarrenM said:

You don't need to wear a  mask outside as along as you are over a metre away from others. You certainly dont need to wear one whilst driving your car........makes me laugh out loud when i see people doing this.

 

 

You have got to see this short video.  It's hilarious.  Our resident "stink eye" appears at the end in the black jacket.  😂

 

 

[sverigecruiser]

2 hours ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

This must be a particularly Swedish thing as everywhere else in the world if you are practicing social distancing you should be doing it indiscriminately regardless of who is wearing a mask.

 

 

I did say that I keep EXTRA distance when I see people wearing a mask, because they are so few. I keep distance to everyone but it's not possible to keep extra distance to everyone because then it's not extra distance.   

[sverigecruiser]

2 hours ago, calliopecruiser said:

You should keep the same distance from everyone and not try to guess who is extra vulnerable and who isn't.  After all, how could you know?  In fact, some of those "extra vulnerable" people might not know themselves, especially for Covid-19......and that's because new risk factors keep emerging.  At one point, it was thought that those with chronic respiratory problems like asthma were extra vulnerable, but it now turns out that's not the case.  Now, it seems, one of the big factors that makes one extra vulnerable to more serious disease seems to be high blood pressure (and there are a lot of people with hypertension who don't know it). 

 

I keep EXTRA distance when I see someone wearing a mask. Since so very few uses a mask here I take that extra precaution when I see someone wear a mask because they might do it because they are extra vulnerable. Do you really mean that is a bad thing to do? I keep distance to everyone but can't know who is extea vulnerable and because of that I keep EXTRA distance to thoose wearing a mask. 

Edited May 22, 2020 by sverigecruiser

[sverigecruiser]

2 hours ago, calliopecruiser said:

(And many experts do recommend wearing masks when out around other people.  Perhaps not in Sweden?)

 

No, they don't.

 

Not even doctors and nurses wear a mask when they go to the grocery store. If they don't, why should I think that it's needed?  

 

 

[clo]

5 minutes ago, sverigecruiser said:

I keep distance to everyone but can't know who is extea vulnerable and because of that I keep EXTRA distance to thoose wearing a mask. 

Yep. And the first reason for wearing a mask is to protect others from the mask wearer. The second reason is to give the mask wearer some amount of protection hopefully.

[rattanchair]

10 hours ago, DarrenM said:

 

So glove wearers are the most selfish.

I toss the gloves before reentering the car. I spray the bottoms of my shoes with alcohol and remove them before entering the house. I only wear a mask if in the vicinity of others. Should I come close to another the mask is discarded. "The best laid plans of mice and men, gain aft aglay, and leave us naught but grief and pain for promised joy" Robert Burns. We do what we can do.

[slidergirl]

1 hour ago, sverigecruiser said:

 

No, they don't.

 

Not even doctors and nurses wear a mask when they go to the grocery store. If they don't, why should I think that it's needed?  

 

 

Just from the little bit that I've seen on how Sweden is handling COVID, they are trying to keep things as normal as possible to get enough people infected to develop the community immunity (aka "herd" immunity) instead of waiting for a reliable vaccine.  Normally the immunity is when 70-90% of the population is immune, via either prior infection or vaccination.  I believe I saw yesterday that only 7-8% of that necessary immunity has been achieved.  A "novel" way to try to deal with the virus.

 

My little county was one of the top 5 in the country for cases per-capita when they started keeping track.  We are a major winter sports destination, so we had people from, literally, around the world coming in and spreading the virus.  We became very pro-active, shutting down resorts, implementing SaH early.  If we go out to the store, gas station, etc., I'll say 90% of the people I encounter are wearing masks.  The county asked the state to stay at a higher level for a little longer than the rest of the state, but only got a week.  Just hoping not too many summer tourists come; we all worked so hard to get things down in our little town.