"Will It Be Safe to Travel When This Is All Over? Will We Even Know?"

[clo]

3 minutes ago, slidergirl said:

 Just hoping not too many summer tourists come; we all worked so hard to get things down in our little town.  

Lake Tahoe has already canceled all their 4th of July events. And even second home owners are being told to only come to check on their house, not to party. THAT one is impossible to enforce. The hospital situation there is very small also. They lost a lot of their good skiing when big storms came in after lock-down.

[slidergirl]

9 minutes ago, clo said:

Lake Tahoe has already canceled all their 4th of July events. And even second home owners are being told to only come to check on their house, not to party. THAT one is impossible to enforce. The hospital situation there is very small also. They lost a lot of their good skiing when big storms came in after lock-down.

We lost a month of skiing, including a few epic pow days, also.  Our county council sent out a notice to ask tourist to not come for the Spring.  Many of our traditional Summer activities have been canceled, but not all yet.  I am dreading a bit if I go back to work - I deal with very high net-worth individuals.  They are NOT going to be happy when they find out the only things available to do are hiking, mt. biking and fishing - no concerts, no Sunday Market, no fireworks, no Wine Fest, etc.   I WILL be wearing a mask.  

I wish we could enforce a 14-day quarantine for out-of-county guests - that would keep some away.  

Our hospital is small (36 beds), so we had to send patients down to Salt Lake City.  I live in flight path of our Med-flight helicopter - I shudder now when I hear it cycle up, much more often then usual the past 2 months.  

 

 

[Roger88]

All the companies will take all the measures necessary in the beginning of their operations. One of the major policy thing to  be effective day one will be their own branded masks. No buffet till end of the year and social distancing which will mean way lesser people on board 

[calliopecruiser]

2 hours ago, sverigecruiser said:

No, they don't.

Yes, they do.......do you need me to list all the health agencies around the world that recommend it, at least when social distancing is not possible?  You know how to use the internet, so you can actually research what the experts are saying, instead of making up the recommendations of experts based on what you see in the grocery stores around you.  Most of the world live in places where it's recommended by health agencies.

[calliopecruiser]

1 hour ago, clo said:

And even second home owners are being told to only come to check on their house, not to party. THAT one is impossible to enforce.

In cottage country near hear, officers were going door-to-door and telling anyone whose driver's license didn't match that address that they would have to leave (i.e. they had to go back to their primary address as listed on their drivers license).

[clo]

24 minutes ago, Roger88 said:

No buffet till end of the year

I wonder why they would bring them back. A cafeteria style is a safer equivalent,even pre-COVID.

[clo]

1 minute ago, calliopecruiser said:

In cottage country near hear, officers were going door-to-door and telling anyone whose driver's license didn't match that address that they would have to leave (i.e. they had to go back to their primary address as listed on their drivers license).

I know that South Lake Tahoe notified all short-term rentals, i.e., VRBO, to shut down and threatened with fines.

[slidergirl]

21 minutes ago, calliopecruiser said:

Yes, they do.......do you need me to list all the health agencies around the world that recommend it, at least when social distancing is not possible?  You know how to use the internet, so you can actually research what the experts are saying, instead of making up the recommendations of experts based on what you see in the grocery stores around you.  Most of the world live in places where it's recommended by health agencies.

You need to use the Internet to read up on how Sweden is dealing with the pandemic.  They are not going the way of most countries in doing Stay at Home, using masks, closing businesses.  They are using personal responsibility to keep interpersonal encounters to a minimum.  They are hoping to get herd immunity naturally instead of having to wait for a vaccine.  

[cruisemom42]

41 minutes ago, calliopecruiser said:

Yes, they do.......do you need me to list all the health agencies around the world that recommend it, at least when social distancing is not possible?  You know how to use the internet, so you can actually research what the experts are saying, instead of making up the recommendations of experts based on what you see in the grocery stores around you.  Most of the world live in places where it's recommended by health agencies.

 

I think you are misunderstanding sverigecruiser's response. 

 

The health authorities in Sweden are in fact NOT recommending that people in normal settings wear masks. I believe in an earlier post a link was provided explaining this. 

 

Edited to add:  This is not the original source, which sverigecruiser quoted, but it does summarize the guidance:  https://www.thelocal.se/20200514/explained-why-is-sweden-not-recommending-face-masks-to-the-public

 

Edited May 22, 2020 by cruisemom42

[clo]

11 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

are in fact NOT recommending that people in normal settings wear masks.

To further confuse :), are they recommending that people NOT wear masks or not recommending that masks be worn?

[cruisemom42]

2 minutes ago, clo said:

To further confuse :), are they recommending that people NOT wear masks or not recommending that masks be worn?

 

From the link given above:  

 

Swedish health authorities argue that keeping a distance, washing your hands, not touching your face, and staying at home if you experience any symptoms are still the best ways to halt the spread of the coronavirus. There is a concern that wearing face masks would make people follow these guidelines less strictly.

Prime minister Stefan Löfven told reporters at the same press conference: "There is a risk of a false sense of security, that you believe that you can't be infected if you wear a face mask."

[ontheweb]

1 hour ago, clo said:

To further confuse :), are they recommending that people NOT wear masks or not recommending that masks be worn?

To wear or not to wear; that is the question whether it is nobler-----yada yada yada

[chipmaster]

2 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

From the link given above:  

 

Swedish health authorities argue that keeping a distance, washing your hands, not touching your face, and staying at home if you experience any symptoms are still the best ways to halt the spread of the coronavirus. There is a concern that wearing face masks would make people follow these guidelines less strictly.

Prime minister Stefan Löfven told reporters at the same press conference: "There is a risk of a false sense of security, that you believe that you can't be infected if you wear a face mask."

 

Sad, because I wash does it mean I can be closer than 6'.   People should do everything that helps, including masks.    

 

I think there is a bias against mask, we are a visual species and our face is one of our most distinct features and our expression to smile, frown etc. is worn on the face, cover with mask and it's really hard to read people, but believe it or not with practice you can recognize emotions and feelings by larger body gesture etc.       

 

When I see a person in a mask, I tend to think / assume they are sick, prior to this pandemic.   Since I travel extensively in the far east there is no shame or negativity with a mask, just you might be sick or extra sensitive to pollution etc.   The west has contorted it beyond belief, but when I look at the pictures of the far east it does give it a surreal feeling.   I can easily see how the western view of this is so negative, so sad, it is very effective. 

[lenquixote66]

1 hour ago, ontheweb said:

To wear or not to wear; that is the question whether it is nobler-----yada yada yada

I wear masks .I know the masks we use are not perfect but it is better than not wearing them.In actuality I have not left my house since March 12 except for 5 minutes walks on sunny days.Most of my neighbors were not wearing masks last month but now the majority of those I see are.

[navybankerteacher]

2 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

From the link given above:  

 

Swedish health authorities argue that keeping a distance, washing your hands, not touching your face, and staying at home if you experience any symptoms are still the best ways to halt the spread of the coronavirus. There is a concern that wearing face masks would make people follow these guidelines less strictly.

Prime minister Stefan Löfven told reporters at the same press conference: "There is a risk of a false sense of security, that you believe that you can't be infected if you wear a face mask."

 

[navybankerteacher]

Just now, navybankerteacher said:

 

If he really thinks that, wouldn’t you think that a few public service announcements might be in order?  I can’t help feeling that he is doubling down to defend his approach — which surely does not seem to be working anywhere near as well as the paths chosen by his neighbors in Norway and Denmark.

[clo]

1 hour ago, chipmaster said:

I think there is a bias against mask, we are a visual species and our face is one of our most distinct features and our expression to smile, frown etc. is worn on the face, cover with mask and it's really hard to read people, but believe it or not with practice you can recognize emotions and feelings by larger body gesture etc.       

 

I've had brief exchanges with people about this. We all have agreed that smiles are easy to see when someone is wearing a mask.

 

I think our having lived in SF for so long inured us to mask wearing. So many Asians that it became not noteworthy. What's noteworthy to me is when I see so many really cool masks 🙂

[chipmaster]

1 minute ago, clo said:

I've had brief exchanges with people about this. We all have agreed that smiles are easy to see when someone is wearing a mask.

 

I think our having lived in SF for so long inured us to mask wearing. So many Asians that it became not noteworthy. What's noteworthy to me is when I see so many really cool masks 🙂

 

I agree with you, I posted somewhere how at Costco we were all in masks and I can see a smile.

 

I work in a cleanroom, pretty soon even if full garb you can read all sorts of thing.   

 

[calliopecruiser]

4 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

The health authorities in Sweden are in fact NOT recommending that people in normal settings wear masks. I believe in an earlier post a link was provided explaining this

That could be, but in that case her response to me made little sense, since I specifically said experts in many countries, to which she answered they did not.

 

Regardless -- a misunderstanding.  Moving on........

 

[cruisemom42]

8 hours ago, sverigecruiser said:

10 hours ago, calliopecruiser said:

(And many experts do recommend wearing masks when out around other people.  Perhaps not in Sweden?)

 

No, they don't.

 

Not even doctors and nurses wear a mask when they go to the grocery store. If they don't, why should I think that it's needed?  

 

Seems clear to me they were responding to your question... 

 

[calliopecruiser]

5 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

Seems clear to me they were responding to your question... 

Seems clear to me that I didn't know which sentence in that comment she was responding too. 

 

(trying to) moving on.......

[sverigecruiser]

13 hours ago, slidergirl said:

Just from the little bit that I've seen on how Sweden is handling COVID, they are trying to keep things as normal as possible to get enough people infected to develop the community immunity (aka "herd" immunity) instead of waiting for a reliable vaccine.  Normally the immunity is when 70-90% of the population is immune, via either prior infection or vaccination.  I believe I saw yesterday that only 7-8% of that necessary immunity has been achieved.  A "novel" way to try to deal with the virus.

 

To develop herd immunity is NOT a part of the Swedish strategy. Our strategy is to keep the curve low enough for the health care system to handle and the curve is low enough for that.

 

 7,3% is the number from the beginning of  April so it's most likely much more now. (The study is from Stockholm which most likely has the highest number in Sweden.)   

[sverigecruiser]

8 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

If he really thinks that, wouldn’t you think that a few public service announcements might be in order?  I can’t help feeling that he is doubling down to defend his approach — which surely does not seem to be working anywhere near as well as the paths chosen by his neighbors in Norway and Denmark.

 

As I have told you before, I think,  I have no reason to defend our prime minister because I haven't voted for him and should prefer someone else. I still want the discussion to be correct. 

 

In this case he was talking about wearing masks so shut down or not shut down is not what he talked about. If the subject is mask or no mask Norway is a bad example because most people in Norway don't wear masks. I don't know anyone in Denmark so I don't know if they are wearing masks.

[sverigecruiser]

 

1. It's very easy to judge me for not wearing a mask if you live in a place where the recommendations, or requirements, is to wear a mask and everyone does it. I'm not sure that everyone who judge me should wear a mask themself if there were no recommendations about it and almost noone else wore a mask, some probably should but probably not everyone.

 

2. Thoose who seriously think that I'm selfish for not wearing a mask even when almost noone else does it must continue to wear a mask even when this is over. There will always be people who might be seriously ill because of something you have in your body so keep your masks on.

 

3. I listen to experts and follow their recommendations. If the recommendations was to wear a mask I should do that if I really had to go out. I should probably get food delivered to avoid to get out. I should not use a mask at work so if the recommendation was to do that  I should stay at home until this is over.

 

4. This is a cruiseforum so I assume that we all are selfish even if we sometimes try not to be selfish, or at least pretend that we are not selfish. Noone can say that it's not selfish to spend money on cruises when children are starving. I choose to be selfish when it comes to spending money on cruises but my choice to not wear a mask is not a selfish choice.

[ontheweb]

3 hours ago, sverigecruiser said:

 

To develop herd immunity is NOT a part of the Swedish strategy. Our strategy is to keep the curve low enough for the health care system to handle and the curve is low enough for that.

 

 7,3% is the number from the beginning of  April so it's most likely much more now. (The study is from Stockholm which most likely has the highest number in Sweden.)   

A question about the effects Sweden's approach. I believe you have said that Sweden has not shut down schools. Has there been a spike in cases involving children? Has whatever this new disease that children are supposedly getting from this virus according to authorities in NY been showing up? Your results might be informative for whether schools all over the USA that have been shut down since March should reopen when the new school year would normally start.