"Will It Be Safe to Travel When This Is All Over? Will We Even Know?"

[sverigecruiser]

1 hour ago, ontheweb said:

A question about the effects Sweden's approach. I believe you have said that Sweden has not shut down schools. Has there been a spike in cases involving children? Has whatever this new disease that children are supposedly getting from this virus according to authorities in NY been showing up? Your results might be informative for whether schools all over the USA that have been shut down since March should reopen when the new school year would normally start.

 

We have a little more than 500 confirmed cases in the age 0-19 but since most people aren't tested it's not possible to know the real number. I have not heared about any deaths in the age 0-19. A little less than 2700 of the dead here have been 80 or older.

 

I have not heared about any outbreaks in school and in the school I am working in we don't have more sick children than what we normally have.

 

I have not heared anything about the new disease  you mention.

[cruisemom42]

9 minutes ago, sverigecruiser said:

 

We have a little more than 500 confirmed cases in the age 0-19 but since most people aren't tested it's not possible to know the real number. I have not heared about any deaths in the age 0-19. A little less than 2700 of the dead here have been 80 or older.

 

I have not heared about any outbreaks in school and in the school I am working in we don't have more sick children than what we normally have.

 

I have not heared anything about the new disease  you mention.

 

This is a newly emerging syndrome that seems to be occurring in children who have been exposed to or infected with COVID-19. More information here:  https://emergency.cdc.gov/han/2020/han00432.asp

 

While it can be serious -- and has been fatal in a few cases --  most children diagnosed with this condition have gotten better with medical care.

 

[calliopecruiser]

I think the bigger issue regarding schools isn't so much whether children will get sick (seriously or not) at school, but whether they will become infected and contagious to those at home. 

[ontheweb]

3 hours ago, sverigecruiser said:

 

We have a little more than 500 confirmed cases in the age 0-19 but since most people aren't tested it's not possible to know the real number. I have not heared about any deaths in the age 0-19. A little less than 2700 of the dead here have been 80 or older.

 

I have not heared about any outbreaks in school and in the school I am working in we don't have more sick children than what we normally have.

 

I have not heared anything about the new disease  you mention.

Thank you. We should all be learning what we can take from the different way that Sweden is handling this.

 

Since my DW is a teacher, I am particularly interested in the school experience. Thanks again for your prompt answer.

[slidergirl]

10 hours ago, sverigecruiser said:

 

To develop herd immunity is NOT a part of the Swedish strategy. Our strategy is to keep the curve low enough for the health care system to handle and the curve is low enough for that.

 

 7,3% is the number from the beginning of  April so it's most likely much more now. (The study is from Stockholm which most likely has the highest number in Sweden.)   

My mistake.  I was positive that was what I had read in a few articles.   I do know personal responsibility is a large part of the strategy.  Sadly, that isn't feasible in the US - too much "me, me, me" instead of "us, us, us".  

[clo]

2 hours ago, slidergirl said:

Sadly, that isn't feasible in the US - too much "me, me, me" instead of "us, us, us".  

Sad indeed. And infuriating. When I read about sensible approaches to many things, unfortunately my first thought tends to be 'oh, that wouldn't work here in the US. Too many brats.' People are getting shot and attacked over the friggin' mask issue.

[lenquixote66]

3 hours ago, clo said:

Sad indeed. And infuriating. When I read about sensible approaches to many things, unfortunately my first thought tends to be 'oh, that wouldn't work here in the US. Too many brats.' People are getting shot and attacked over the friggin' mask issue.

We live in a condo and every resident received a written statement advising that everyone walking on the outdoor premises must wear a mask and socially distance themselves .I wish they would have done so two months ago.

[calliopecruiser]

24 minutes ago, lenquixote66 said:

We live in a condo and every resident received a written statement advising that everyone walking on the outdoor premises must wear a mask and socially distance themselves .I wish they would have done so two months ago.

Yes.....in my condo we were told at least 6-7 weeks ago that most building facilities would be closed (the pool room, the exercise room, etc), that no non-resident, non-medical help people would be allowed in the building (no cleaning ladies or real estate agents, etc), and that they recommended no more than 1 family in the elevator at time (i.e. if you don't live together, don't ride the elevator together). 

[lenquixote66]

1 hour ago, calliopecruiser said:

Yes.....in my condo we were told at least 6-7 weeks ago that most building facilities would be closed (the pool room, the exercise room, etc), that no non-resident, non-medical help people would be allowed in the building (no cleaning ladies or real estate agents, etc), and that they recommended no more than 1 family in the elevator at time (i.e. if you don't live together, don't ride the elevator together). 

That is essentially what we received.

[sverigecruiser]

15 hours ago, slidergirl said:

My mistake.  I was positive that was what I had read in a few articles.   I do know personal responsibility is a large part of the strategy.  Sadly, that isn't feasible in the US - too much "me, me, me" instead of "us, us, us".  

 

It's probably correct that you have read it in articles but it's fake news.

 

The two biggest differences between Sweden and many other places, as I see it, is that wearing masks is not recommended here and the schools for younger children are open here. The biggest reason to keep the schools open is that if they close the schools at least one parent must stay at home even if they work at for example a hospital.     

[pacruise804]

 

 

On 5/22/2020 at 2:25 PM, slidergirl said:

 

My little county was one of the top 5 in the country for cases per-capita when they started keeping track.  We are a major winter sports destination, so we had people from, literally, around the world coming in and spreading the virus.  We became very pro-active, shutting down resorts, implementing SaH early.  If we go out to the store, gas station, etc., I'll say 90% of the people I encounter are wearing masks.  The county asked the state to stay at a higher level for a little longer than the rest of the state, but only got a week.  Just hoping not too many summer tourists come; we all worked so hard to get things down in our little town.  

 

If I am understanding the bolded portion correctly (and I may not be), this approach concerns me.  Is there ever a point where we will be comfortable allowing tourism again?

 

On 5/22/2020 at 4:04 PM, cruisemom42 said:

 

 

Edited to add:  This is not the original source, which sverigecruiser quoted, but it does summarize the guidance:  https://www.thelocal.se/20200514/explained-why-is-sweden-not-recommending-face-masks-to-the-public

 

 

On 5/22/2020 at 4:16 PM, clo said:

To further confuse :), are they recommending that people NOT wear masks or not recommending that masks be worn?

Posts like this (and when you don't understand a dropped e in cloths/clothes discussions) do make it look like you are trying to antagonize.  I didn't read the article yet, but the title says "Why is Sweden not recommending face masks" NOT "Why is Sweden recommending no face masks."  I guess I don't understand your confusion.

[pacruise804]

On 5/21/2020 at 2:59 AM, sverigecruiser said:

 

This is interesting.

 

Many people have found much change and uncerteinly in the "real world" and I understand why it's then difficult to know what to think about cruising.

 

The changes in the "real world" are so extremely small for me so my thinking is probably completely different.

 

I don't think about how the cruiseline will handle social distancing because my feeling is that there won't be any cruises until the social distancing is less important.

 

I also don't think about wearing masks on cruises because I don't think that there will be any cruises until most people feel that a mask isn't needed. 

 

I hope that we will be able to go on the cruise we have booked for July next year. I fear that the ship won't be ready in time for our cruise because she is under construction in Italy now but I still hope to go. If a mask is required on the plane I will probably drive to the port, Barcelona, instead. If a mask might be needed on the ship we will cancel the cruise.

 

If a mask is required in Barcelona we will defenitely wear one but we will probably spend most of our time waiting for the cruise in our hotelroom. If a mask is required in the ports during the cruise we will probably stay on the ship.   

 

I agree with your thought that there won't be cruises until social distancing is lifted and masks are no longer required by many countries.  The potential for quarantine after cruising is an unknown issue, and likely concerns more than the chance of getting sick.  While I am hoping to cruise again, it would be nice to see a month or two of cruising before my next cruise to know what it will look like - unfortunately someone needs to go first though.

 

It has been interesting to read your perspective from Sweden.  Thank you for sharing.

[slidergirl]

Paracruise84: (I couldn't get the quote/reply working)

   On 5/22/2020 at 12:25 PM,  slidergirl said: 

 

My little county was one of the top 5 in the country for cases per-capita when they started keeping track.  We are a major winter sports destination, so we had people from, literally, around the world coming in and spreading the virus.  We became very pro-active, shutting down resorts, implementing SaH early.  If we go out to the store, gas station, etc., I'll say 90% of the people I encounter are wearing masks.  The county asked the state to stay at a higher level for a little longer than the rest of the state, but only got a week.  Just hoping not too many summer tourists come; we all worked so hard to get things down in our little town.  

 

 

If I am understanding the bolded portion correctly (and I may not be), this approach concerns me.  Is there ever a point where we will be comfortable allowing tourism again?

 

 

Our town relies on excellent Winter Seasons for our economy.  If we get too many summer tourists coming this summer, and behaving as we have seen in Florida, Arkansas, Georgia, we will most likely going back to Square One.  And that will devastate our town for the winter.   Most of our traditional summer activities are not happening this summer.  All that is going to be there is hiking, mt. biking, and going to bars.  That's where our community spread started - a bar doorman/bouncer was infected by a tourist (think of the hundreds of IDs he handled every night!!!).  

In a perfect world, my town would stay "locals only" and have a good summer with finally shutting down Main St. to traffic, turning it into a pedestrian area where restaurants can set up temporary "patios" in front of their restaurants on the street and we can return to what we were in the 80s and part of the 90s when the town basically shut down.  Then, once everyone has safety and cleanliness protocols down pat through working with locals, we could open to the world again.  Like I said, perfect world.  

Edited May 26, 2020 by slidergirl

[ontheweb]

2 hours ago, slidergirl said:

Paracruise84: (I couldn't get the quote/reply working)

   On 5/22/2020 at 12:25 PM,  slidergirl said: 

 

My little county was one of the top 5 in the country for cases per-capita when they started keeping track.  We are a major winter sports destination, so we had people from, literally, around the world coming in and spreading the virus.  We became very pro-active, shutting down resorts, implementing SaH early.  If we go out to the store, gas station, etc., I'll say 90% of the people I encounter are wearing masks.  The county asked the state to stay at a higher level for a little longer than the rest of the state, but only got a week.  Just hoping not too many summer tourists come; we all worked so hard to get things down in our little town.  

 

 

If I am understanding the bolded portion correctly (and I may not be), this approach concerns me.  Is there ever a point where we will be comfortable allowing tourism again?

 

 

Our town relies on excellent Winter Seasons for our economy.  If we get too many summer tourists coming this summer, and behaving as we have seen in Florida, Arkansas, Georgia, we will most likely going back to Square One.  And that will devastate our town for the winter.   Most of our traditional summer activities are not happening this summer.  All that is going to be there is hiking, mt. biking, and going to bars.  That's where our community spread started - a bar doorman/bouncer was infected by a tourist (think of the hundreds of IDs he handled every night!!!).  

In a perfect world, my town would stay "locals only" and have a good summer with finally shutting down Main St. to traffic, turning it into a pedestrian area where restaurants can set up temporary "patios" in front of their restaurants on the street and we can return to what we were in the 80s and part of the 90s when the town basically shut down.  Then, once everyone has safety and cleanliness protocols down pat through working with locals, we could open to the world again.  Like I said, perfect world.  

Sounds wonderful, but you do know that we live in an imperfect world.

[clo]

2 hours ago, slidergirl said:

Our town relies on excellent Winter Seasons for our economy.

We have a distinct summer season also because of Lake Tahoe. The beaches are already crowded. The Town of Trucked has been very actively promoting "we know you want to come here...but not now. Please." South Lake Tahoe isn't allowing airbnb-type rentals. Like you the little hospitals will easily be overwhelmed. But I've no doubt they'll continue to come and be the pigs that so many already are. 😞

[puppycanducruise]

I live in a small town with a great beach and harbour.  In the summer, many businesses want tourists.  Our mayor, and many mayors of "tourist towns" have told non-residents to stay home, don't come to the beach.  Our beach is closed.  So far, even though the temperatures have been hot, the beach is empty.  But, it's early in the season.  Who knows what next month will be like? 

[pacruise804]

17 hours ago, slidergirl said:

Our town relies on excellent Winter Seasons for our economy.  If we get too many summer tourists coming this summer, and behaving as we have seen in Florida, Arkansas, Georgia, we will most likely going back to Square One.  And that will devastate our town for the winter.   Most of our traditional summer activities are not happening this summer.  All that is going to be there is hiking, mt. biking, and going to bars.  That's where our community spread started - a bar doorman/bouncer was infected by a tourist (think of the hundreds of IDs he handled every night!!!).  

In a perfect world, my town would stay "locals only" and have a good summer with finally shutting down Main St. to traffic, turning it into a pedestrian area where restaurants can set up temporary "patios" in front of their restaurants on the street and we can return to what we were in the 80s and part of the 90s when the town basically shut down.  Then, once everyone has safety and cleanliness protocols down pat through working with locals, we could open to the world again.  Like I said, perfect world.  

 

Thank you for the explanation, I didn't realize summer was your slow season and hoped I was missing something.  Your perfect world plan sounds very reasonable - especially since you did it before.

[iancal]

One thing is a given for us.

 

We will certainly not depend on the cruise lines telling us when  it is safe to start cruising again.

[clo]

1 hour ago, iancal said:

One thing is a given for us.

 

We will certainly not depend on the cruise lines telling us when  it is safe to start cruising again.

*****'ing A!

[ilikeanswers]

1 hour ago, iancal said:

One thing is a given for us.

 

We will certainly not depend on the cruise lines telling us when  it is safe to start cruising again.

 

River cruises and Viking IIRC were pretty prompt at suspending their itinerary🤗. On the other end as long as there are cruises with the Greg Mortimer attitude I probably want to do my own research before taking the word of a cruise company😳

The extrication of a cruise ship

[cruisemom42]

1 hour ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

River cruises and Viking IIRC were pretty prompt at suspending their itinerary🤗. On the other end as long as there are cruises with the Greg Mortimer attitude I probably want to do my own research before taking the word of a cruise company😳

The extrication of a cruise ship

 

Wow. That is a sobering read.

 

[clo]

10 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Wow. That is a sobering read.

 

I remember reading about the ship/voyage back when it was all beginning. Sobering indeed.

[sverigecruiser]

 

It's not over yet and we still don't have the answers but it's interesting to reread this old thread!

[2wheelin]

7 hours ago, sverigecruiser said:

 

It's not over yet and we still don't have the answers but it's interesting to reread this old thread!

Yeah. What ever happened to Clo?

[ontheweb]

11 hours ago, 2wheelin said:

Yeah. What ever happened to Clo?

I was wondering the same thing.