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"Will It Be Safe to Travel When This Is All Over? Will We Even Know?"

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2 hours ago, clo said:

Like many/most of us I've been focusing a lot on COVID. And I've shared info from some reputable sources about the disease and the short'ish term future of cruising. And some of the, IMO, disreputable actions of the industry. Things that may be new or old but things I learned about on CC and have followed up on. And it's annoyed some people. There are people here saying they would cruise tomorrow if they were allowed to. We're big believers in "don't confuse them with the facts." Anyway that's the short version. And thanks 🙂 

You are welcome. And since we seem to often like each others posts, I was having trouble comprehending that you were the one that was being referred to as annoying.

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Posted (edited)
27 minutes ago, pris993 said:

the question for me is not whether it is safe to travel, it is will I want to travel with all the preventive measures in place?   I doubt it, too much trouble, but I am 73 have been most places I wanted to see.  Was thinking of simply doing close loop cruises out of San Francisco, was on my last one the Grand in February.   But if that even becomes to much ... will pass and simply enjoy staying home, using the travel money I would have spent to enhance my at home experience.  

I'll be 73 in a few weeks so I really get your perspective. But we would more likely fly into one city, stay a week, fly/train to another, stay a week and fly home. And not going to fly intl. or maybe at all until/unless we have a vaccine.

Edited by clo

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1 hour ago, navybankerteacher said:

No, you did not mention the US — and I never said you were “wrong” ; but if you are comparing international death rate statistics, it is hardly “right” to compare a whole country’s rate with the rate of a city with one of the busiest international airports in the world.

 

It is sort of like comparing pine cones to apples.

 

For me "check your statistics" mean that there is something wrong with the statistics. I appologize if that was a missunderstanding from me.

 

I think that it's "right" to compare it the way I did as long as I don't pretend to compare apples to apples. New York is a place with many more deaths than Sweden and that is proof that lockdown is not the only factor to consider.

 

New York compared to Sweden is not a proof for that  lockdown is wrong and Norway compared to Sweden is not a proof for that  lockdown is right. There are too many factors to consider to make it that easy.  

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55 minutes ago, clo said:

I'll be 73 in a few weeks so I really get your perspective. But we would more likely fly into one city, stay a week, fly/train to another, stay a week and fly home. And not going to fly intl. or maybe at all until/unless we have a vaccine.

Yes, am sure we are all trying to figure out what will work for us.  My dh is 88 so that is another factor for me, I need to keep an eye on him, he gets confused somethings.  We have one international flight booked from San Francisco to Tel Aviv  for Sept 1.  We were suppose to go 5/12... re booked.  It is a non stop on United or would not go at all.  Right now foreigners entering Israel must guarantine... if they are still doing we will not go at all... it was just a one week trip, we have family there we wanted to visit.  

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1 minute ago, pris993 said:

it was just a one week trip, we have family there we wanted to visit.  

Have you been before? It was awesome. We were on an escorted land tour and went from the Dead Sea in the south to the Golan Heights. Israel is about the size of New Jersey so it was easy to do a lot.

 

That's great that there's a nonstop especially with an older gentleman who may need some help. I hope your trip comes off.

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1 hour ago, sverigecruiser said:

 

For me "check your statistics" mean that there is something wrong with the statistics. I appologize if that was a missunderstanding from me.

 

I think that it's "right" to compare it the way I did as long as I don't pretend to compare apples to apples. New York is a place with many more deaths than Sweden and that is proof that lockdown is not the only factor to consider.

 

New York compared to Sweden is not a proof for that  lockdown is wrong and Norway compared to Sweden is not a proof for that  lockdown is right. There are too many factors to consider to make it that easy.  

This is getting ridiculous -- it is absurd to compare a city like New York with a country like Sweden. 

 

But there are sufficient similarities between Norway and Sweden - climate, ethnicity, etc. to look at their astoundingly different mortality rates and to  think that, just possibly, there might be a connection between the response chosen and the result experienced.

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37 minutes ago, clo said:

Have you been before? It was awesome. We were on an escorted land tour and went from the Dead Sea in the south to the Golan Heights. Israel is about the size of New Jersey so it was easy to do a lot.

 

That's great that there's a nonstop especially with an older gentleman who may need some help. I hope your trip comes off.

That is my one regret in life to have never gone there.

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2 hours ago, pris993 said:

using the travel money I would have spent to enhance my at home experience.  

Sadly, I am never as fully calm and relaxed as I am when on a cruise ship in the middle of the ocean. 

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1 hour ago, navybankerteacher said:

This is getting ridiculous -- it is absurd to compare a city like New York with a country like Sweden. 

 

But there are sufficient similarities between Norway and Sweden - climate, ethnicity, etc. to look at their astoundingly different mortality rates and to  think that, just possibly, there might be a connection between the response chosen and the result experienced.

 

It should be absurd if I said that it was the same thing but I say that it isn't! THAT IS MY POINT!!!

 

There are many factors to consider so we can't just look at the lockdown and say that Swedens strategy is a failure.

 

Lockdown is absolutely one factor to consider but that doesn't give the whole truth.

 

Was a lockdown necessary in Italy? Probably.

Should a lockdown help in Sweden? Maybe, or maybe not. I have not heared about any outbreaks because the schools are open. Maybe it will come, or maybe not.

 

Most places are not closed here and almost noone here is using facemasks. As I said before I have seen less than five people wearing facemasks since the pandemi started. Shouldn't even more people die?

 

  

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18 minutes ago, sverigecruiser said:

 

It should be absurd if I said that it was the same thing but I say that it isn't! THAT IS MY POINT!!!

 

There are many factors to consider so we can't just look at the lockdown and say that Swedens strategy is a failure.

 

Lockdown is absolutely one factor to consider but that doesn't give the whole truth.

 

Was a lockdown necessary in Italy? Probably.

Should a lockdown help in Sweden? Maybe, or maybe not. I have not heared about any outbreaks because the schools are open. Maybe it will come, or maybe not.

 

Most places are not closed here and almost noone here is using facemasks. As I said before I have seen less than five people wearing facemasks since the pandemi started. Shouldn't even more people die?

 

  

I propose we stop this discussion now.  Maybe revisit it a year from now - and see if Sweden’s per capita death rate remains anywhere near five times that of Norway.

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3 hours ago, clo said:

I'll be 73 in a few weeks so I really get your perspective. But we would more likely fly into one city, stay a week, fly/train to another, stay a week and fly home. And not going to fly intl. or maybe at all until/unless we have a vaccine.

Aha, you are young. I've already been 73 for a few weeks.

 

DW is from a flying family as her father was in the RAF, and then emigrated to the US to work at British Airways (though it was still BOAC then). 

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15 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

I've already been 73 for a few weeks.

I recently checked and 70s are defined as "elderly"

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37 minutes ago, clo said:

I recently checked and 70s are defined as "elderly"

I resent the implication you are making about me.

 

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9 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

I resent the implication you are making about me.

 

One of the reasons I like this site is I'm not the oldest 🙂

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2 hours ago, calliopecruiser said:

Sadly, I am never as fully calm and relaxed as I am when on a cruise ship in the middle of the ocean. 

We figured out one of the reasons we loved to cruise is we loved being on the water or near water.  Luckily we live near San Francisco and enjoy walks along San Francisco Bay... just being near the water helps us relax.   I grew up south of San Francisco on the ocean, my dh lived in Morocco - in Cassablanca, so also near water, the Atlantic... no wonder we love the water.  Hope you find what gives you comfort on and off the ship. 

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3 hours ago, clo said:

Have you been before? It was awesome. We were on an escorted land tour and went from the Dead Sea in the south to the Golan Heights. Israel is about the size of New Jersey so it was easy to do a lot.

 

That's great that there's a nonstop especially with an older gentleman who may need some help. I hope your trip comes off.

Yes, luckily about 12 times in the past 20 years... we flew and took ships over the years.  This is the first non stop from San Francisco we had planned. I hope we make it too.  

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1 hour ago, clo said:

One of the reasons I like this site is I'm not the oldest 🙂

I am older than you but I am not the oldest .

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2 hours ago, clo said:

I recently checked and 70s are defined as "elderly"

Well I'm older than you just barely, but I'm still a kid.

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1 minute ago, ontheweb said:

Well I'm older than you just barely, but I'm still a kid.

Our grands think I'm silly.

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4 hours ago, clo said:

One of the reasons I like this site is I'm not the oldest 🙂

One thing I REALLY do not want to happen to me is being the oldest of everyone I know: there’s nothing wrong with younger people, but there is a sort of responsibility which comes with being the oldest that I am not sure I will ever be ready for.

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2 hours ago, clo said:

Our grands think I'm silly.

Our grands (10 of mine and 11 of my wife’s) KNOW that I am “something else” - which they can’t quite put into words, but certainly like trying.

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2 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

Our grands (10 of mine and 11 of my wife’s) KNOW that I am “something else” - which they can’t quite put into words, but certainly like trying.

Sounds like a major compliment to me 🙂 And, wow, that's a grand # of grands!

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8 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

Maybe revisit it a year from now - and see if Sweden’s per capita death rate remains anywhere near five times that of Norway.

 

I agree, time will tell.

 

A year from now we can see if Belgiums death rate remains near three times that of Sweden.

 

Some people in Norway think that Sweden may have done the right thing. A year from now we can see if they are right or wrong.  

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