pacruise804 Posted May 20, 2020 #201 Share Posted May 20, 2020 On 5/11/2020 at 11:30 AM, navybankerteacher said: You realize, I hope, that you risk further enraging your squad of knee-jerk (what is the term for opposite of cheerleaders?) who seem unable to contemplate life without cruise ships. I'm not sure why you have such a hard time with people on a cruising forum wanting to cruise again🤷♀️ If you don't feel cruising will be safe for many years after governments and cruise lines deem it to be so (I haven't seen anyone suggesting cruising while cruising is prohibited), perhaps you might consider stepping away from the boards rather than be frustrated by those who are hopeful cruising will return in an enjoyable fashion. On 5/11/2020 at 2:54 PM, calliopecruiser said: Sadly, I am never as fully calm and relaxed as I am when on a cruise ship in the middle of the ocean. This sums up a big appeal of cruising to me too, and is a big part of why I am not giving up on cruising returning. It's possible the lines will bankrupt or it will change so much with new guidelines that the experience won't be worth the cost, but for now we are keeping our booked November cruise until the line cancels it. If ships are sailing by the time we need to rebook our canceled cruise (that would have sailed last weekend) we will likely sail again. If we are still shut down in 6 months then we will request a refund. I don't think we will know with any certainty if it will be safe to travel when restrictions are lifted. We can either trust the governments, medical professionals, and cruise lines and sail within our risk tolerance (which may still mean not cruising for many). 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clo Posted May 20, 2020 Author #202 Share Posted May 20, 2020 19 minutes ago, pacruise804 said: I'm not sure why you have such a hard time with people on a cruising forum wanting to cruise again nbt does a good job of speaking for himself 🙂 but I'd like to weigh in also. There are people on this site who are giving out BIG TIME wrong info so I think it's good when others speak up and present an opposing view or especially facts. There are elderly or not bright people or those with emotional issues who might get a little aha moment reading a devil's advocate. And let's face it, thanks to the mods this isn't truly a cruise only forum, especially these days. BTW, I really like your posts. Cath 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navybankerteacher Posted May 20, 2020 #203 Share Posted May 20, 2020 33 minutes ago, pacruise804 said: I'm not sure why you have such a hard time with people on a cruising forum wanting to cruise again🤷♀️ If you don't feel cruising will be safe for many years after governments and cruise lines deem it to be so (I haven't seen anyone suggesting cruising while cruising is prohibited), perhaps you might consider stepping away from the boards rather than be frustrated by those who are hopeful cruising will return in an enjoyable fashion. ... This site exists to discuss cruising - not just day-dreaming about cruising. I want to return to cruising as much as the next person - but I do not think it does anyone: cruise lines, people who want to cruise, travel agents - whoever- any good to ignore reality. Asking people to think what health protocols might be required, and how they might fundamentally change the experience is only exercising the purpose of these boards: talking about cruising — the good, the bad, and the ugly. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacruise804 Posted May 20, 2020 #204 Share Posted May 20, 2020 1 hour ago, navybankerteacher said: This site exists to discuss cruising - not just day-dreaming about cruising. I want to return to cruising as much as the next person - but I do not think it does anyone: cruise lines, people who want to cruise, travel agents - whoever- any good to ignore reality. Asking people to think what health protocols might be required, and how they might fundamentally change the experience is only exercising the purpose of these boards: talking about cruising — the good, the bad, and the ugly. I truly did not get the impression you wanted to return to cruising - my apologies. I agree that dispelling incorrect information and discussing options is good. I'm not sure how much is served by disparaging others for holding different opinions (not singling you out, I've seen bashing on both sides) or speculating things that likely will never come to be - but it is nice to have a place to speak our minds. I personally have found so much change and uncertainty in the "real world" that it is difficult to know what to think sometimes about cruising. My husband and I have one cruise booked and one canceled that we need to decide if we are rebooking or refunding. Most of me thinks the November cruise won't happen and we certainly aren't in a rush to book, but if I"m wrong and cruising does return this year (which I expect to be one of the last leisure activities to return) then we plan to be on the ship. From what I've seen at the grocery stores (virtually my only outings), even if masks or other protocols are in place they likely won't be properly enforced so I don't think we will know if it is "safe" to travel as asked in the topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lenquixote66 Posted May 20, 2020 #205 Share Posted May 20, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, clo said: nbt does a good job of speaking for himself 🙂 but I'd like to weigh in also. There are people on this site who are giving out BIG TIME wrong info so I think it's good when others speak up and present an opposing view or especially facts. There are elderly or not bright people or those with emotional issues who might get a little aha moment reading a devil's advocate. And let's face it, thanks to the mods this isn't truly a cruise only forum, especially these days. BTW, I really like your posts. Cath I think that some people perceive things the way the want them to be and that is not reality. Edited May 20, 2020 by lenquixote66 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rattanchair Posted May 20, 2020 #206 Share Posted May 20, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, lenquixote66 said: I think that some people perceive things the way the want them to be and that is not reality. The truth about perception being reality for the person doing the perceiving has been shown to be the case. I remember the queer object lesson in college that made a lasting impression on us impressionable students. A meat packer who returned to work after some days absence in a Russian province (workers only get paid for work performed) decided to 'clock in' after the other workers retired for the evening. While unloading a railway car of sides of beef into the refrigerators he got locked into the refrigerator. When they found the worker the next morning he had , according to the medical examiner, from all the typical indications, frozen to death. Unexplained, because it was summer time and the freezer had broken days before and the motor was not connected, and the temperature never approached freezing. The worker did have a light inside that did work and he proceeded to write in his notebook his account of slowly freezing to death. He perceived he was freezing to death and so he did. Thus Perception is Reality. Placebo effect is the same thing. P.S. The mind is a very powerful tool, in the right hands. Edited May 20, 2020 by rattanchair P.S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rattanchair Posted May 20, 2020 #207 Share Posted May 20, 2020 "Whatever the mind can conceive of and believe in, can be achieved" Napoleon Hill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruzaholic41 Posted May 20, 2020 #208 Share Posted May 20, 2020 4 hours ago, pacruise804 said: I'm not sure why you have such a hard time with people on a cruising forum wanting to cruise again🤷♀️ If you don't feel cruising will be safe for many years after governments and cruise lines deem it to be so (I haven't seen anyone suggesting cruising while cruising is prohibited), perhaps you might consider stepping away from the boards rather than be frustrated by those who are hopeful cruising will return in an enjoyable fashion. Thank you. I know times have been odd lately, but this all day, every day sitting on this board belittling everyone who wants to get back to cruises, because they think they’re the ones with the facts, has gotten really tiresome. Good thing is, I wont see their replies because the gang of 2 are on my ignore list. 😜 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clo Posted May 20, 2020 Author #209 Share Posted May 20, 2020 3 hours ago, pacruise804 said: even if masks or other protocols are in place they likely won't be properly enforced so I don't think we will know if it is "safe" to travel as asked in the topic. And that's a very good point. Was it Waffle House where a customer shot a server over the mask issue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clo Posted May 20, 2020 Author #210 Share Posted May 20, 2020 1 hour ago, rattanchair said: P.S. The mind is a very powerful tool, in the right hands. And the wrong hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare ontheweb Posted May 21, 2020 #211 Share Posted May 21, 2020 50 minutes ago, clo said: And the wrong hands. Is "the wrong hands" a euphemism for politicians? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lenquixote66 Posted May 21, 2020 #212 Share Posted May 21, 2020 2 hours ago, rattanchair said: The truth about perception being reality for the person doing the perceiving has been shown to be the case. I remember the queer object lesson in college that made a lasting impression on us impressionable students. A meat packer who returned to work after some days absence in a Russian province (workers only get paid for work performed) decided to 'clock in' after the other workers retired for the evening. While unloading a railway car of sides of beef into the refrigerators he got locked into the refrigerator. When they found the worker the next morning he had , according to the medical examiner, from all the typical indications, frozen to death. Unexplained, because it was summer time and the freezer had broken days before and the motor was not connected, and the temperature never approached freezing. The worker did have a light inside that did work and he proceeded to write in his notebook his account of slowly freezing to death. He perceived he was freezing to death and so he did. Thus Perception is Reality. Placebo effect is the same thing. P.S. The mind is a very powerful tool, in the right hands. I remember something quite similiar from my college days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navybankerteacher Posted May 21, 2020 #213 Share Posted May 21, 2020 2 hours ago, Cruzaholic41 said: Thank you. I know times have been odd lately, but this all day, every day sitting on this board belittling everyone who wants to get back to cruises, because they think they’re the ones with the facts, has gotten really tiresome. Good thing is, I wont see their replies because the gang of 2 are on my ignore list. 😜 I can see why it might be comforting for some to ignore people who might say things they do not want to hear. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clo Posted May 21, 2020 Author #214 Share Posted May 21, 2020 15 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said: I can see why it might be comforting for some to ignore people who might say things they do not want to hear. AKA don't confuse (or frighten) them with the facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sverigecruiser Posted May 21, 2020 #215 Share Posted May 21, 2020 11 hours ago, pacruise804 said: I personally have found so much change and uncertainty in the "real world" that it is difficult to know what to think sometimes about cruising. This is interesting. Many people have found much change and uncerteinly in the "real world" and I understand why it's then difficult to know what to think about cruising. The changes in the "real world" are so extremely small for me so my thinking is probably completely different. I don't think about how the cruiseline will handle social distancing because my feeling is that there won't be any cruises until the social distancing is less important. I also don't think about wearing masks on cruises because I don't think that there will be any cruises until most people feel that a mask isn't needed. I hope that we will be able to go on the cruise we have booked for July next year. I fear that the ship won't be ready in time for our cruise because she is under construction in Italy now but I still hope to go. If a mask is required on the plane I will probably drive to the port, Barcelona, instead. If a mask might be needed on the ship we will cancel the cruise. If a mask is required in Barcelona we will defenitely wear one but we will probably spend most of our time waiting for the cruise in our hotelroom. If a mask is required in the ports during the cruise we will probably stay on the ship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calliopecruiser Posted May 21, 2020 #216 Share Posted May 21, 2020 7 hours ago, sverigecruiser said: I don't think about how the cruiseline will handle social distancing because my feeling is that there won't be any cruises until the social distancing is less important. I also don't think about wearing masks on cruises because I don't think that there will be any cruises until most people feel that a mask isn't needed. And those are the real questions -- will there ever be a time when people feel those things? Why are you so opposed to wearing a mask when you are around other people? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clo Posted May 21, 2020 Author #217 Share Posted May 21, 2020 7 hours ago, sverigecruiser said: If a mask might be needed on the ship we will cancel the cruise. I promise you that having worn one for over two months it's really no bid deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navybankerteacher Posted May 21, 2020 #218 Share Posted May 21, 2020 1 hour ago, calliopecruiser said: And those are the real questions -- will there ever be a time when people feel those things? Why are you so opposed to wearing a mask when you are around other people? Wearing a mask might be the longest-lasting measure as we all continue to relax the isolating measures. People who say there is no need for such measures, once the curve is flattened and infections show consistent decline, make me think of a skydiver who, once he notices that his rate of descent has markedly slowed, decides he can take off his parachute. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sverigecruiser Posted May 21, 2020 #219 Share Posted May 21, 2020 1 hour ago, calliopecruiser said: And those are the real questions -- will there ever be a time when people feel those things? Why are you so opposed to wearing a mask when you are around other people? I feel those things now. What is the point of me wearing a mask if almost noone else is wearing one? I saw my 5th person wearing a mask since the pandemi started today in the grocery store. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sverigecruiser Posted May 21, 2020 #220 Share Posted May 21, 2020 1 hour ago, clo said: I promise you that having worn one for over two months it's really no bid deal. I can probably get used to wearing a mask but I'm not interested to get used to it. I like my home and can stay here if that's my only option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquahound Posted May 21, 2020 #221 Share Posted May 21, 2020 1 minute ago, sverigecruiser said: I feel those things now. What is the point of me wearing a mask if almost noone else is wearing one? I saw my 5th person wearing a mask since the pandemi started today in the grocery store. Your post reminded me of a meme I saw this morning. I'd say the chair is a metaphor for the anonymous internet. 😂 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sverigecruiser Posted May 21, 2020 #222 Share Posted May 21, 2020 15 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said: Wearing a mask might be the longest-lasting measure as we all continue to relax the isolating measures. People who say there is no need for such measures, once the curve is flattened and infections show consistent decline, make me think of a skydiver who, once he notices that his rate of descent has markedly slowed, decides he can take off his parachute. I think that we can agree that we shall not start another "number of death diskussion" so we don't do that!!!😁 Our curve is flattened out without almost anyone wearing a mask so it's confusing. Are masks needed or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navybankerteacher Posted May 21, 2020 #223 Share Posted May 21, 2020 1 minute ago, sverigecruiser said: .. Our curve is flattened out without almost anyone wearing a mask so it's confusing. Are masks needed or not? If a significant majority of medical professionals ( which excludes politicians and cruise fanatics) weigh in on the topic, I will be inclined to accept their recommendations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calliopecruiser Posted May 21, 2020 #224 Share Posted May 21, 2020 The curve flattening doesn't mean the pandemic is over, it just means that there's now room for you in the ICU. Really, a flattening curve doesn't mean the risk - or the effects of the disease - are lessened. All it means is that the number of people known to be infected is not increasing, not that they're decreasing or gone. You can look at a flattened curve as hopefully a turning point towards a resolution, but it's not even the beginning of the end. 23 minutes ago, sverigecruiser said: I can probably get used to wearing a mask but I'm not interested to get used to it. I like my home and can stay here if that's my only option. So you would rather isolate yourself than go about the neighbourhood, city, or world, enjoying social interaction and activities? OK then, you go for it. But, in my opinion, if you care about other people you will wear a mask when around them (i.e. when you can't be socially distant). Not until the curve is flattened, but until the curve is dropped significantly, for at least several weeks. If you say "why should I care when others don't?", well, then, I've got nothing to say to such an uncaring and selfish attitude. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilikeanswers Posted May 21, 2020 #225 Share Posted May 21, 2020 11 minutes ago, sverigecruiser said: Our curve is flattened out without almost anyone wearing a mask so it's confusing. Are masks needed or not? I would say the social distancing is a far more effective measure but a mask still helps after all medical professionals would not be demanding them if they were not useful to some capacity. It has to be said that Asian countries flattened their curves much faster than European nations and their citizens wear masks on a regular basis so maybe it helps slow down the spread sooner than without it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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