HAL and Seabourn are losing avid cruisers because of refunds

[Doubt It]

Actually Aritzia, a Cdn ladies clothing store. 

 

They had 1 years revenue + in investments to ensure they had a big contingency. Their staff are still retained on 50% salary and they have funds to pay their landlords some rent, but not all rent obviously. I own shares and get detailed operational information.

 

Aritzia has about 67 locations in Canada and about 30 in the USA.

 

Their shares were up 37% in 2019. The CEO Brian Hill is great and he is very conservative while running a leading edge ladies clothing operation, actually a cutting edge operation. 

 

Yes indeed, it can be done. Depends on the principles and values of the CEO and board I would think.

 

Well, Greed is an interesting item and it appears often and most definitely in cruise lines.

 

 

[EscapeFromConnecticut]

On 5/5/2020 at 7:17 PM, DFD1 said:

This is as good a place for ranting as any.  Many people feel mistreated.  If they want to talk about it, fine with me.

Hopefully HAL people will read some of the complaints and realize the error of their ways.

 

However, my guess is they just don't have the available cash required for the refunds.

Which is a superb reason for nobody plunking down even one more dollar today.

[CruiserBruce]

2 hours ago, Doubt It said:

Actually Aritzia, a Cdn ladies clothing store. 

 

They had 1 years revenue + in investments to ensure they had a big contingency. Their staff are still retained on 50% salary and they have funds to pay their landlords some rent, but not all rent obviously. I own shares and get detailed operational information.

 

Aritzia has about 67 locations in Canada and about 30 in the USA.

 

Their shares were up 37% in 2019. The CEO Brian Hill is great and he is very conservative while running a leading edge ladies clothing operation, actually a cutting edge operation. 

 

Yes indeed, it can be done. Depends on the principles and values of the CEO and board I would think.

 

Well, Greed is an interesting item and it appears often and most definitely in cruise lines.

 

 

Good info, and am glad to see it. But it is but one business, in the hundreds of millions of businesses out there. And it sounds like they had some reserves, but paying "some rent" and keeping employees at fifty percent pay, while a good idea, doesn't absolutely meet the poster's comment. But still a good idea.

 

The other key difference here is this business can probably still sell online, and probably will be open for business in far less than a year, probably far less than the 6 months cruise lines are currently facing. So there is revenue from the online sales, at minimum. Cruise lines are getting a relatively small amount of revenue from deposits.

 

As I commented elsewhere, a look from all sides of an issue is important for thoughtful analysis. 

[Boatdrill]

15 hours ago, Doubt It said:

 

Well this customer is a former customer and will never be a future customer.   ....

Well times are a changing and I will not be booking another cruise for the foreseeable future. 

 

Which is it....."will never be a future customer" or "not booking for the foreseeable future" ? 

Edited May 16, 2020 by Boatdrill

[Janet76]

12 hours ago, CruiserBruce said:

Please identify what cruise line has a rainy day fund equal to 6 months of total revenues, and expenses, with no new revenue coming in, but expenses continuing during that 6 months? Any type of business?

Disney Cruise Line

[slidergirl]

1 hour ago, CruiserBruce said:

Good info, and am glad to see it. But it is but one business, in the hundreds of millions of businesses out there. And it sounds like they had some reserves, but paying "some rent" and keeping employees at fifty percent pay, while a good idea, doesn't absolutely meet the poster's comment. But still a good idea.

 

The other key difference here is this business can probably still sell online, and probably will be open for business in far less than a year, probably far less than the 6 months cruise lines are currently facing. So there is revenue from the online sales, at minimum. Cruise lines are getting a relatively small amount of revenue from deposits.

 

As I commented elsewhere, a look from all sides of an issue is important for thoughtful analysis. 

It will be interesting also in the hotel arena to see what shakes out.  They shed probably every hourly employee they had and had the salaried folks keep things in maintenance (have pay them anyway).  But for the facilities that are not corporate-owned, just managed, they could be in trouble vs the owned & operated ones.  They have to pay their own bills (mortgage, insurance) and don't have the corporation to fall back on to help.  If they are opening up in what would be the offseason for them, it's even worse since they won't have the occupancy and most likely the large conference they depend on for money in the offseason have cancelled.  Should make for an interesting 6 months or so.

[CruiserBruce]

7 hours ago, Janet76 said:

Disney Cruise Line

Interesting...looking at the Disney board, while no where near the issues here, I am seeing reports of it taking 7 weeks for a refund...

[LMaxwell]

Another week, zero customer communication.  Cheerleaders; top off your coffee for another lightning weekend round of defend corporate 

[gigianne]

I think throughout all of this it's the customer service from HAL that has let everyone down.  Since I cancelled our cruise March 8th I have had not one bit of information sent to me.  Having bought the platinum insurance, I figured we were covered for a refund if we didn't or couldn't take the cruise, boy was I wrong.  And, because I have nothing in writing from HAL, my CC comply will not initiate a dispute.  

[Doubt It]

18 minutes ago, LMaxwell said:

Another week, zero customer communication.  Cheerleaders; top off your coffee for another lightning weekend round of defend corporate 

 

Right on LMaxwell. Cheerleaders, add a little liquor to your coffee too. You will need it with all your future FCC's out there. Other consumers have seen the reality and will be moving their vacation business to other sectors to punish the cruise lines for their incompetent and anti consumer business practices.

[Doubt It]

9 minutes ago, gigianne said:

I think throughout all of this it's the customer service from HAL that has let everyone down.  Since I cancelled our cruise March 8th I have had not one bit of information sent to me.  Having bought the platinum insurance, I figured we were covered for a refund if we didn't or couldn't take the cruise, boy was I wrong.  And, because I have nothing in writing from HAL, my CC comply will not initiate a dispute.  

 

 gigianne, do you have a TA? They can write you something saying they can't get anything from HA.  That should be enough for the credit card. My TA did that and I have the return of my deposit (from Paul Gauguin) provisionally in my account. My card gave PG 45 days to settle in my favour.

 

Do not give up!

[CruiserBruce]

9 hours ago, Janet76 said:

Disney Cruise Line

Nothing I can find says Disney has any great reserves. Perhaps they activated a line of credit. Just like some of the other cruise lines have. 

[Janet76]

Disney Cruise line is certainly better than CCL in terms of refunding their guests.  Our friend got their refund within two weeks of request.  CCL is telling us 60-90 days and now don't know when but working on refunds is not an acceptable answer.  And how many of you received email communication saying your refund has been processed. NONE!! 

[richwmn]

26 minutes ago, Janet76 said:

Disney Cruise line is certainly better than CCL in terms of refunding their guests.  Our friend got their refund within two weeks of request.  CCL is telling us 60-90 days and now don't know when but working on refunds is not an acceptable answer.  And how many of you received email communication saying your refund has been processed. NONE!! 

While the 'big three' cruise companies (CCL, RCL, NCLH) are pure play cruises, Disney is a mega corporation with income from many diverse activities - most of which are still ongoing concerns and many of which are realizing extra profits from the lockdown.

A partial list of Disney holdings --

• ABC
• ESPN (80% stake)
• Touchstone Pictures
• Marvel
• Lucasfilm
• A&E (50% equity holding with Hearst Corporation)
• The History Channel (50% equity holding with Hearst Corporation)
• Lifetime (50% equity holding with Hearst Corporation)
• Pixar
• Hollywood Records
• Vice Media (10% stake)
• Core Publishing

Besides these, there are also the more obvious companies: Disney television channels, Disney stores, Disney radio stations, and Disney parks (including Walt Disney World Resort, Disneyland Resort, Disneyland Paris, Disney Cruise Line, and a host of other vacation-related properties).

 

[Cruising-along]

4 hours ago, CruiserBruce said:

Interesting...looking at the Disney board, while no where near the issues here, I am seeing reports of it taking 7 weeks for a refund...

And Disney has only 4 cruise ships!

[CruiserBruce]

1 minute ago, Cruising-along said:

And Disney has only 4 cruise ships!

and as @richwmn so wonderfully illustrated, cash from lots of other sources within the corporation.

[Cruising-along]

Just now, CruiserBruce said:

and as @richwmn so wonderfully illustrated, cash from lots of other sources within the corporation.

Exactly.  And as I've told @Janet76 before, I know Disney laid off thousands of employees weeks ago.  Our daughter-in-law is one of them.  She has nothing to do with the cruise ships, she's an Imagineer for Disney.

[Janet76]

Different business structure or not, keeping our money more than 60 days of refund is not reasonable.  We as a guest should not be held accountable if the CCL corporation did not have enough liquid on rainy day.

[funintehsun]

Janet, I knew when you posted your earlier comment that someone would reply that Disney has various other sources of revenue.   Still, it's kind of strange how many posters pounced on that comment. 

 

If you haven't already done so,  initiate a dispute with the credit card.  They are the only entity whose timeline you need to follow.  If you are asked to wait the 60 days by the credit card co then so be it, but it is not wise to assume that is necessary without contacting them first.

[DFD1]

1 hour ago, funintehsun said:

Janet, I knew when you posted your earlier comment that someone would reply that Disney has various other sources of revenue.   Still, it's kind of strange how many posters pounced on that comment. 

 

If you haven't already done so,  initiate a dispute with the credit card.  They are the only entity whose timeline you need to follow.  If you are asked to wait the 60 days by the credit card co then so be it, but it is not wise to assume that is necessary without contacting them first.

 

In my view, every cruise line passenger who has not received money back within the time frame originally established by the cruise line should file a claim through their credit card company.

 

I don't believe the cruise lines will begin processing refunds in a serious way until the pressure of passenger claims forces them to do so....and even then it may prove difficult to get money refunded.

IMO.

[Captain Ricky]

You may find this interesting from Cruise Critic on why refunds are not coming quickly.

 

https://www.cruisecritic.com/news/5342/?et_cid=3330961&et_rid=131762234&et_referrer=features_widget_cc