Masks probably required

[Computer Nerd]

3 hours ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

Well, in that nursing home with 22 deaths, you tell them Asymptomatic people can’t transfer COVID19. 

I'm not worried about it so I don't need to tell anyone anything. Simply passing along something I read. If I can find the article I will post it so you can direct your ire properly.

[Computer Nerd]

Here it is. Do with it what you will. Base your opinion on whatever you wish.

 

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/02/paper-non-symptomatic-patient-transmitting-coronavirus-wrong

[Computer Nerd]

2 hours ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

But that’s not what happened. Those patients just can’t get up and go out and about. Like I have said before, if the community you are in, be it your zip code, house, club, church, or whatever, has ZERO infection, the chance to get it is ZERO. Let one come in and ZERO is no longer a probability. 
 

The contact tracing showed some staff brought it in. These nursing homes don’t pay well. 

So based on your supposedly accurate, factual statement (which I don't believe you know in reality) I'm sure you have a log entry of every single person's movement in the 2+ weeks prior to the first illness, right? Otherwise you are simply guessing to make it fit your point of view.

[Milwaukee Eight]

21 minutes ago, Computer Nerd said:

Here it is. Do with it what you will. Base your opinion on whatever you wish.

 

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/02/paper-non-symptomatic-patient-transmitting-coronavirus-wrong

That article is from February 3rd. I read it. I believe a lot of things have changed since the beginning of February. 
 

Here is what I can attest to. I’ve seen the trace tracking from the State of Florida CDC.  A patient comes into PCP sick and is transferred to hospital. Is later confirmed positive. Tracing back her contacts found 10 people who tested positive with no signs of infection, Asymptomatic. 
 

Also the nursing home here where the info we have indicated it was brought in by a staff member. This member also appears to have infected two other nursing homes. No signs, Asymptomatic. 
 

That’s all I have to go on. It would be great if it proves out that Asymptomatic people don’t spread the virus and would change a lot of things. 

[Milwaukee Eight]

25 minutes ago, Computer Nerd said:

So based on your supposedly accurate, factual statement (which I don't believe you know in reality) I'm sure you have a log entry of every single person's movement in the 2+ weeks prior to the first illness, right? Otherwise you are simply guessing to make it fit your point of view.

Trying to understand your logic. Are you saying people get COVID19 without being exposed?  I say, if you have ZERO cases, your likelihood of catching is ZERO. 

[ONECRUISER]

5 hours ago, HBE4 said:

 

 

P.S. - Montgomery, AL is running out of ICU beds and Ford closed down 2 plants it just reopened due to covid. Not....quite....out...of...the...woods....just....yet.   The floor is yours. 😇

 

 

Not to make lite or say we are on downside of CV but when one those Hospital's has 10 ICU Beds and another 24 kind of explains it better. When rest of Hospitals are empty. Most US Hospitals are not set up for this type long term Critical Care, many have no ICU. Not out norm for Montgomery area as they will fill all ICU beds several times a yr, this before CV. They had their few ICU beds filled at capacity since April with many of them CV patients. Familiar with area, in past lived in Alabama for yrs, my Ex is Regional Nurses Union hot shot, One Cousin a Dr at Hospital another a Nurse there. Many Hospital workers been Furloughed... Watched Video other day with Auto Workers returning to work. As they filed back into Plant, observed about 25% without mask on or was down around their neck as the hundreds went threw the turnstile bumping into each other. 

[mpk]

5 hours ago, hazence said:

 HBE4...don’t tell anybody else around here but you are probably my favorite poster on CC. There is no one I admire or appreciate more than an intelligent, articulate “adversary” in a debate who can hold their own with civility, grace and a bit of humor.

 

Kudos, nice to see a civil discussion of differing views.  You two are rare, unfortunately.

[Mallefiscent]

So the holes in the mask are bigger than the virus.  If you are in the grocery store and sneeze, talk, do whatever, the virus is still going to get out.   If someone pees their pants, it doesn't just stay in their pants.  It leaks down and puddles on the floor.  If they pee through a hole that is bigger than their pee, it is still going to get out.  If I have a hole that is bigger than their pee, it can still get through to me. 

[ToroAzul]

At work now. 450+ bed hospital. 

 

Less than 15 C-19 positive pts in ICU. Not all are in ICU due to C-19, some are post surgery. 

 

On the C-19 floor there are 13. Four of those have discharge orders. 

Edited May 22, 2020 by ToroAzul

[CRUISEFAN0001]

18 minutes ago, Mallefiscent said:

So the holes in the mask are bigger than the virus.  If you are in the grocery store and sneeze, talk, do whatever, the virus is still going to get out.   If someone pees their pants, it doesn't just stay in their pants.  It leaks down and puddles on the floor.  If they pee through a hole that is bigger than their pee, it is still going to get out.  If I have a hole that is bigger than their pee, it can still get through to me. 

WOW.  A good fiction writer can't even come up with that menagerie of words that say/prove nothing.

[hazence]

1 hour ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

Trying to understand your logic. Are you saying people get COVID19 without being exposed?  I say, if you have ZERO cases, your likelihood of catching is ZERO. 

Please explain this statement.  It puzzles me every time you say it.
 

We all started at zero.
 

NYC had zero cases at some point. Pick any nursing home...back in early autumn they had zero cases. Surely you are not saying they had zero chance of infection? Because we know sadly, that was not the case. 
 

That’s like saying if you were outside and dry when the storm started, you can stay outside in the downpour because you have zero chances of getting wet.  Or if your boat didn’t sink when the Typhoon started, no worries... your chances of sinking are zero.

 

I don’t think you mean that...but I’m not following how you have come to the conclusion that any place with zero infection will stay at zero? Not unless they pull up the moat and allow no entrance or exit to Fantasy Island. 

 

 

[johnjen]

Funniest bit about this thread is reading all of you "experts" argue about it😁 cheers, chill out, have a great weekend, and don't lose any sleep over this "virus" that is soooo ten minutes ago.

[Milwaukee Eight]

52 minutes ago, hazence said:

Please explain this statement.  It puzzles me every time you say it.
 

We all started at zero.
 

NYC had zero cases at some point. Pick any nursing home...back in early autumn they had zero cases. Surely you are not saying they had zero chance of infection? Because we know sadly, that was not the case. 
 

That’s like saying if you were outside and dry when the storm started, you can stay outside in the downpour because you have zero chances of getting wet.  Or if your boat didn’t sink when the Typhoon started, no worries... your chances of sinking are zero.

 

I don’t think you mean that...but I’m not following how you have come to the conclusion that any place with zero infection will stay at zero? Not unless they pull up the moat and allow no entrance or exit to Fantasy Island. 

 

 

Easy to explain. Once you get ONE positive, you no longer have ZERO???

[Milwaukee Eight]

1 hour ago, ToroAzul said:

At work now. 450+ bed hospital. 

 

Less than 15 C-19 positive pts in ICU. Not all are in ICU due to C-19, some are post surgery. 

 

On the C-19 floor there are 13. Four of those have discharge orders. 

I missed your city and State. 

[ToroAzul]

8 minutes ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

I missed your city and State. 

Metro Atlanta 

[A&L_Ont]

1 hour ago, Mallefiscent said:

So the holes in the mask are bigger than the virus.  If you are in the grocery store and sneeze, talk, do whatever, the virus is still going to get out.  

 

Sounds like this is what you want people to wear.  I myself am happy to go about my way with a mask in my pocket, and don it when needed. 
 

 

 

 

[Ocean Boy]

5 hours ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

But then are we back to over 70 requiring a letter?  Over 65?  Everyone? 

Not at all. We all have a choice. We all have the right to take risks in life. But if their choice is to engage in non-essential activities that carry a risk then they should not expect everyone else to change their way of life in order to accommodate them.

[Mallefiscent]

2 hours ago, CRUISEFAN0001 said:

WOW.  A good fiction writer can't even come up with that menagerie of words that say/prove nothing.

They are saying that a mask will protect people from the virus like wearing a pair of pants will protect others from your pee.  The masks have holes that are bigger than the virus.  If someone pees through the hole of a pair of ripped jeans, you're still going to get pee on you. 

[D C]

2 hours ago, Mallefiscent said:

So the holes in the mask are bigger than the virus.  If you are in the grocery store and sneeze, talk, do whatever, the virus is still going to get out.   If someone pees their pants, it doesn't just stay in their pants.  It leaks down and puddles on the floor.  If they pee through a hole that is bigger than their pee, it is still going to get out.  If I have a hole that is bigger than their pee, it can still get through to me. 

Actually, no.  Though I'm wondering how big pee is.... 

 

The size of an individual virus isn't particularly important, because one virus won't make you sick. You need an inocculating dose. 

 

The key is stopping particles that contain MANY viruses.  Think of a spit-talker as an example.  If spit-talker breathes near me, no big deal. The viral load in breathing isn't too bad. Small particles with relatively little virus. 

 

But when spit-talker actually spit-talks, we're talking about relatively huge particles flying through the air.   It's like having screens on your windows. Air gets through, but mosquitoes don't. Even rain is slowed down to an extent. 

 

A mask need not be perfect to stop the spit-talker's spit from flying. 

 

 

 

[Computer Nerd]

5 hours ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

Trying to understand your logic. Are you saying people get COVID19 without being exposed?  I say, if you have ZERO cases, your likelihood of catching is ZERO. 

Look at what I hightlighted (in italics, first line). What concrete proof do you have as to what happened?

[Mallefiscent]

2 hours ago, D C said:

Actually, no.  Though I'm wondering how big pee is.... 

 

The size of an individual virus isn't particularly important, because one virus won't make you sick. You need an inocculating dose. 

 

The key is stopping particles that contain MANY viruses.  Think of a spit-talker as an example.  If spit-talker breathes near me, no big deal. The viral load in breathing isn't too bad. Small particles with relatively little virus. 

 

But when spit-talker actually spit-talks, we're talking about relatively huge particles flying through the air.   It's like having screens on your windows. Air gets through, but mosquitoes don't. Even rain is slowed down to an extent. 

 

A mask need not be perfect to stop the spit-talker's spit from flying. 

 

 

 

 

I know you didn't mean it this way, but now all I can imagine is all the people who say "the mask is to protect you not me" are spit talkers.  lol

[Mallefiscent]

15 hours ago, A&L_Ont said:

 

For your question to how the virus can get out, it means I wasn’t wearing it correctly and you in-took the virus from improper hand cleaning, face contact etc.  Even a cloth mask is better than no mask in tight circumstances, so be thankful people are wearing them. 

 

Here is an explanation to help you understand to why wearing a mask, to protect others, in crowded situations is important. A person in a mask isn’t a sign of a fearful person.  It’s a person taking a simple action to protect others around them.
 

Imagine you are out at the store and you meet me, and neither of us are wearing masks.  I am asymptotic, with COVID, meaning I have it but have yet to show any symptoms.  Another words, I have no idea I am positive with COVID.

 

I accidentally sneeze, gleek, speak mositly on you etc, in turn spreading the virus on you. You can in-take it multiple ways from me, even without ever seeing me at the store.  My germs entered your system, from transfer of some variety, and that’s why it’s important to wash those hands, sanitizer when you can’t and no hand contact to your face. 
 

However if I was wearing a mask, those germs will have been blocked from getting to you and others around me.  If I was not wearing a mask it will not be good for you.  By the time I realize I have it, the chance meeting with you while saying “hi” in isle 5 of the grocery store will be long out of my memory. In the meantime you continue to go mask free spreading it, until you realize you are Infected 2-14 days later.

See the image below. It’s a comparable, of pants to a mask, for those that wonder why wearing a mask is to protect others when you can’t get 6’ of separation.
 

 

 

 

A face covering of any variety is still better than none, just make sure your nose and mouth is covered. I have seem a few noses uncovered over the weeks, which is not the right way to wear a mask. The next image, which I have edited/adapted the tip, to fulfill CC rules. 
 

 

Be safe out there for yourself and others, but don’t stop living. Hope my explanation helped.

 

 

 

 

 

This made me laugh.  Especially the part about the tip. 

[broberts]

10 hours ago, Ocean Boy said:

So let me ask you this. If you happen to contract the virus while wearing a mask, could it be that by re-breathing air that you have just exhaled you are also re-breathing virus virus particles that you also just exhaled thus increasing the chances that you will end up with a symptomatic infection? Of course I already know he answer to the question..... it is who the heck knows.

 

One doesn't instantly develop a full blown infection with an initial contact. By the time one is expelling virus when breathing the infection is so far advanced that the amount expelled is a very tiny fraction of the amount already hosted.

[CRUISEFAN0001]

8 hours ago, Mallefiscent said:

They are saying that a mask will protect people from the virus like wearing a pair of pants will protect others from your pee.  The masks have holes that are bigger than the virus.  If someone pees through the hole of a pair of ripped jeans, you're still going to get pee on you. 

Not only has that not been proven by the experts, but there must be 1000 or more variations of masks...with a 1000 variations on protection levels towards C-19.  Anytime global statements are made about something not working...which even the scientific community doesn't have 100% agreement on..."lay experts" opinions are nothing more than that...opinions (not facts).

 

Luckily for the cruising world...future cruise policies about masks and other methods to minimize health risks will be based on more than just urban legends or vague opinions.

[Ocean Boy]

9 hours ago, broberts said:

 

One doesn't instantly develop a full blown infection with an initial contact. By the time one is expelling virus when breathing the infection is so far advanced that the amount expelled is a very tiny fraction of the amount already hosted.

How many contacts do you think someone has to have before they are set up to get a "full blown infection"? It is all dependent on the viral load inoculation as well as the health status of the patient. And sometimes just plain luck.

 

Now, if what you mean is that it takes several days for the infection to cause clinical symptoms, that I agree with. But if you think about what you said that one has to have a "full blown" infection in order to be shedding the virus then asymptomatic people probably really are not all that contagious and their mask wearing is unnecessary.