Scenic River Cruise Cancellations - Anyone been rebooked?

[Host Jazzbeau]

4 hours ago, Herman The Cat said:

Just because they say it’s a force majeur event doesn’t mean they get to keep your money...that’s not something I’m saying, that’s legally. 

 

That depends on their Australian T&C wording.

[Herman The Cat]

I can tell you in the US version of our T&C it did not apply.

Even with all the over-engineering of their T&C to cover so much, it did not contemplate a pandemic.It clearly states that if they cancel for whatever reason, they refund.

Would be curious what the Aus/NZ versions say.

[Little Monty]

38 minutes ago, Herman The Cat said:

I can tell you in the US version of our T&C it did not apply.

Even with all the over-engineering of their T&C to cover so much, it did not contemplate a pandemic.It clearly states that if they cancel for whatever reason, they refund.

Would be curious what the Aus/NZ versions say.

 

Below is from Australian website .. updated yesterday. After I post this I will go and read the 'original' Terms and Conditions

(I have the 2020 printed booklet) and will report what I find.

..........................................................................

18 June 2020

Scenic Group Travel Policy and Advisory Update: COVID-19

Our Reservation Centre is currently experiencing unprecedented high call volumes resulting in unusually long wait times. We appreciate you require updated information to finalise your future travel plans and we are working as quickly as possible to be able to provide the relevant details.

OPERATIONAL UPDATES

We hope that you and your families are all well and starting to adapt your plans as the Australian and New Zealand Governments slowly start to ease the recent health and safety restrictions.

However, due to the continued Government travel restrictions and international border closures, it continues to be impossible for us to operate our schedules for guests with bookings departing from Australia and New Zealand. This has required the temporary suspension of Scenic Group (including Scenic Luxury Cruises & Tours, Emerald Waterways and Evergreen Cruises & Tours) departures for all river and ocean cruises, and for land tours (excluding domestic Australia tours) departing up to 31 October 2020.
  
The suspension to 31 October 2020 applies only to international departures for guests from Australia and New Zealand. However, as a global business, we are also continuing to review, departures for guests with bookings that reside outside of Australia and New Zealand.

This situation is totally out of our control and the COVID-19 pandemic is a force majeure event as defined within the Scenic Group terms and conditions. However, to support your future travel plans, Scenic Group will be providing a Future Travel Credit for affected departures.

If you choose not to take up the option of the Future Travel Credit (FTC), you can opt to cancel your booking under our standard terms and conditions, and then consult with your travel insurance company to enquire if you can lodge a claim. If required, we can provide a letter to assist you in making your claim.

Our flexible policy for guests with River Cruise, Ocean Cruise and international Land Tour bookings departing from 1 September to 31 October 2020:  

To ensure your future travel plans will be protected, if you hold a:

• River or ocean cruise reservation during this period, Scenic Group will provide a 110% Future Travel Credit (FTC) Voucher for the amount paid, to re-book and travel by 30 June 2023
• Land tour (including Egypt & Canada cruise tours) reservation during this period, Scenic Group will provide a 100% FTC Voucher for the amount paid, to re-book and travel by 30 June 2023
   

The flexible conditions for your FTC Voucher are as follows:

• Valid for travel commenced through to 30 June 2023
• The value of your FTC voucher is based on the amount paid for your reservation to date
• The FTC Voucher can be applied to any booking within the Scenic Group (Scenic Luxury Cruises & Tours, Emerald Cruises (including Emerald Waterways and Emerald Yacht Cruises) and Evergreen Cruises & Tours)
• The FTC Voucher can be applied to any existing booking or when re-booking your future travel
• Is fully transferrable to another guest, and;
• Upon the expiry of the FTC Voucher on 30 June 2023, guests who are unable to travel may request a cash refund equal to the amount paid
   

If you choose not to take up the option of the FTC Voucher, you can opt to cancel your booking under our standard terms and conditions.

Our flexible booking and cancellation policy for guests with bookings departing from 1 November to 31 December 2020:
 

All guests with a booking to depart from 1 November 2020 and guests considering a booking after that date, have the option to transfer their booking to an alternate date without a Scenic Group fee up to 31 December 2021 (or 31 December 2022 for Scenic Eclipse), up to 30 days prior to departure. Scenic will waive all cancellation fees with the value of the booking applied as a Future Travel Credit and we will review the timing for the full payment when re-booking. Please note, if you choose to cancel or transfer there may be third party fees applicable, which will be at the guests own expense. 

 

This allows guests more time to make decisions about their future travel plans. This policy will apply to all brands within the Scenic Group: Scenic Luxury Cruises & Tours, Scenic Eclipse, Emerald Cruises (including Emerald Waterways and Emerald Yacht Cruises) and Evergreen Cruises & Tours.

 

Most governments have implemented strict travel restrictions and border controls that limit the arrival of people who have travelled, visited or transited through other countries, beyond those currently within the Scenic Group policy as outlined above. 

We will continue to monitor the changing global situation and remain committed to doing our best to assist with your concerns and adjusting travel plans.

On behalf of the Scenic Group team, we are here to support you during this challenging time and we look forward to exploring our precious world with you again very soon.

[Little Monty]

1 hour ago, Herman The Cat said:

I can tell you in the US version of our T&C it did not apply.

Even with all the over-engineering of their T&C to cover so much, it did not contemplate a pandemic.It clearly states that if they cancel for whatever reason, they refund.

Would be curious what the Aus/NZ versions say.

 

The Australian T&C's (specifically para 5.3 - Cancellation, delays etc) are word for word the same as post 3 above by Scottjeanne.

 

Just FYI .. Australia's largest airline (Qantas) has cancelled all international flights up to late October 2020 (except a couple to New Zealand).

The Australian government has said (a couple of days ago) they don't expect international tourism into / out of Australia to recommence till 2021.

A number of local travel companies are fighting tooth and nail to refuse refunds for cancelled trips / flights / hotel bookings etc - and our Competition Commission has said future credits are ok in most situations (without defining what is ok and what is not).

 

Scenic are well known, long standing company in Australia but I don't know anything about the current financial situation inside the company. They have lost a couple of fairly significant court cases over the past few years, but they have invariably appealed those cases with some success.

 

We are booked on April 2021 Europe river cruise with an early payment bonus if we paid in full by 31 May 2020. We chose not to pay early. We won't make a decision till the last minute (final payment now due in December).

 

I'm guessing, but I think the 'force majeure' reference above is the company saying it's not our fault and that overrides the 'cancel for any reason' reference in the original T&C's. Likely the only way to challenge this would be through a legal process.

 

Best wishes to all who are impacted.

LM

 

Edited June 18, 2020 by Little Monty
error

[deltasigma]

Take from this what you will:

 

From Scenic's NZ and Australia websites (https://www.scenicnz.com/media-centre/coronavirus)

 

The suspension to 31 October 2020 applies only to international departures for guests from Australia and New Zealand. However, as a global business, we are also continuing to review, departures for guests with bookings that reside outside of Australia and New Zealand.

 

 

 

[Herman The Cat]

People have to do what they are comfortable doing. And decide if you trust the company that you are giving your money to. It is a risk and you have to consider you may not see your money again for a long time...and what happens if they go out of business? Does your travel protection include financial default of an operator? You can’t rely on Credit card protection  — typically, they provide for default if you buy an item and don’t receive it because the provider goes bankrupt, but not a service, such as travel.

 

Consider: the shipyard where he Eclipse was being built went bankrupt; Scenic had to step in and pay to get the yacht finished. It didn’t saiL for many months; that’s lost revenue plus they had to compensate passengers. They lose a class action lawsuit and have to pay out $$$millions. Covid-19 happens and they have get passengers off the Eclipse/tours/river cruises home.  No revenue coming in since probably February.  They are having new ships built and have to pay the shipyard. I don’t care that the owner had a statement on the website saying how “well-resourced” they are, that’s a lot of outlay of $$$ and cash flow out, no matter how wealthy you are. 

 

As Warren Buffett said, “it is only when the tide goes out that you see who is swimming naked.”

 

My partner is an attorney and no, force majeur does not override anything and means they can keep your money. In fact, if a force majeur happens, there is no reason for them to keep your money since they are not operating. Believe what you will, but keeping your money is a free loan for them, and they evidently need it otherwise they would offer a refund like most other cruise lines.

 

After dealing with this company for several months, I would not give them any money. And I can see why that passenger won the case on them causing him emotional distress. And how they lost the class action lawsuit filed by 140 passengers.  https://cruisepassenger.com.au/hundreds-win-compensation-after-scenic-loses-high-court-battle-over-flood-hit-cruises/

 

I wish everyone a positive outcome with this company and do hope for the best. We all want to get back onboard sailing/cruising ASAP. It is just important to consider as many factors and outcomes as possible before moving forward. It’s a personal decision, based on each person’s individual circumstances and risk tolerance (and gut feeling!), whether to give them your money for a future cruise...especially not knowing when or in what format, and with what protocols (I.e., will you have to wear a mask while onboard?), cruising will be operating. Lots of uncertainties on many levels to consider.

Edited June 19, 2020 by Herman The Cat
Typos

[prairie girl]

So, here is our dilemma...

Payment in full was made for a cruise that did not happen in June.

We applied our FCC to a sailing in October 2021 as our insurance would not pay out when a voucher was issued and they permitted us to carry our insurance coverage forward on the new booking.

Now, Scenic has changed their terms and conditions for us on the new punted trip.

 

What happens if we do not accept their new terms and conditions?  Do we effectively just loose our deposit?
Sandra

Edited June 22, 2020 by prairie girl
Grammer

[Little Monty]

5 minutes ago, prairie girl said:

So, here is our dilemma...

Payment in full was made for a cruise that did not happen in June.

We applied our FCC to a sailing in October 2021 as our insurance would not pay out when a voucher was issued and they permitted us to carry our insurance coverage forward on the new booking.

Now, Scenic has changed their terms and conditions for us on the new punted trip.

 

What happens if we do not accept their new terms and conditions?  Do we effectively just loose our deposit?
Sandra

What are the changes ?

[prairie girl]

12 minutes ago, Little Monty said:

What are the changes ?

The terms & conditions policy is completely new.  Essentially it has been entirely re-written.

[Little Monty]

3 hours ago, prairie girl said:

The terms & conditions policy is completely new.  Essentially it has been entirely re-written.

 

I assume there are some aspects of the new T&C's you are not happy with. Which ones ?

 

On what date did you apply the FCC to the 2021 cruise?

 

What is the date of introduction of the 'new' T&C's ?

[prairie girl]

6 minutes ago, Little Monty said:

 

I assume there are some aspects of the new T&C's you are not happy with. Which ones ?

 

On what date did you apply the FCC to the 2021 cruise?

 

What is the date of introduction of the 'new' T&C's ?

T&C’s have changed...doesn’t really matter which ones we are unhappy with.  Every country has different protection and coverage so it doesn’t really matter.  It sure would have made it easier if they just let us know what changes had been made instead of going through the pages and pages and then comparing them to our original terms and conditions!
FCC was applied prior to our original sailing date after notification that our sailing was suspended.

Don’t know the exact date of the new Terms...it has just been posted on our trip personalizer for review and signature.

 

[Herman The Cat]

Not surprised T&Cs have already changed. Unfortunately, that’s a deceptive bait and switch Tactic—bait you to take the FCC and then change the terms. Perhaps hoping you won’t notice? That seems to be Scenic’s MO — change the Rules of the game after the game has started.

 

Personally, given my experience, and my TA’s experience, I would not sign anything with Scenic. I would request tell them the terms are unacceptable and request a refund.

 

The large print giveth and the fine print taketh away!

[Canal archive]

Try going straight to the top he might still be hunkering down in Switzerland.

[Herman The Cat]

3 minutes ago, Canal archive said:

Try going straight to the top he might still be hunkering down in Switzerland.

 

Right, that explains why the contracts are based under the laws of the Canton of Zug, Switzerland.

 

The thing is Scenic thinks their clients are not that bright and will just go along...at least 80% will. The other 20% will question their policies. If 80% go along, or the majority, that’s a win for them. Keeping 80% of the money, refunding about 20%, I’ll take that trade! A free loan to finance their new ships. 

 

Trip insurance covering the default of a provider would probably be a good idea.

[Canal archive]

Don’t forget that the law is different in different countries when you go down the percentage of consumers route.

[prairie girl]

We will continue to deal with our issue...until then we will not be agreeing to the new Terms & Conditions.

What has annoyed us the most is that there was no option provided by Scenic other than the Future Cruise Voucher...believe me we tried to have a refund issued.  Our insurance would not refund cruise costs if a voucher for future travel was issued.  So, we have applied the voucher and made a replacement booking.  We continue coverage with the original insurance policy so we still have everything covered.

I guess we will see how Scenic treats us!  We understand they are a business that has to look after their best interests and these are interesting times we are currently living!  But, don’t suddenly change the rules and expect us to agree to changes made in the process!

 

[NewtoRiverCruising31]

We were to go on the Scenic Enchanting Rhone in May 2020 and it was cancelled ... My in-laws who planned the trip chose to get a full refund but weren't to receive it until 2023. Then 3 days later Scenic sent out this email with these great deals on certain cruises .. So they re-booked, using their credit from the Enchanting Rhone cruise, for July 2021 on the South of France 11 day Lyon to Lyon .. I am not sure if anyone else that had their cruises cancelled due to Covid19 received the same "deal" email from Scenic, this is just what happened with our situation ..