Why didn't cruise ships have balcony cabins until the 1990s?

[ldubs]

8 hours ago, Essiesmom said:

Royal Princess (l) of 1984 had balconies.  And no inside cabins.  Older ships, and very grand...had wide wrap around promenade decks with deck chairs where you could stroll and take the air...  EM

 

8 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

I remember the PR around her launch -- she was christened by Diana, then Princess of Wales.

 

 

I remember this being in the news with the ceremony christening by Princess Diana.  I'm shocked to be reminded that was in 1984. 

[SbbquilterUT]

Our first cruise was on the Costa Angelina Lauro in 1974.  Had been used as a troop ship and then reverted to cruising.  Porthole, fixes lower berths that were angled with the hull.  Bathroom smaller than any you would see today - you could shower while brushing your teeth.  Amazing meals served by very good looking Italian staff that had the time to really give you an experience.  It was some time before we cruised again but that experience was amazing.

[donaldsc]

4 hours ago, SbbquilterUT said:

Our first cruise was on the Costa Angelina Lauro in 1974.  Had been used as a troop ship and then reverted to cruising.  Porthole, fixes lower berths that were angled with the hull.  Bathroom smaller than any you would see today - you could shower while brushing your teeth.  Amazing meals served by very good looking Italian staff that had the time to really give you an experience.  It was some time before we cruised again but that experience was amazing.

 

I was on small ship in the Greek Islands where the bathroom was so small that when you stood in front of the sink to wash or brush your teeth, you were actually standing IN the shower.  On another ship, there was no actual shower in the bathroom.  The shower drain was in the middle of the bathroom floor so in effect the bathroom was the shower.  Both were interesting ships.

 

DON

[donaldsc]

I am going to let my cynicism show here.  I believe that balconies arose when cruise company management had the bright idea that they could spend a few bucks on adding balconies to the cabins without increasing the actually increasing the size of the cabin and then charging 50% more for the same sized cabin.  They then used advertising to convince many of us that the only way to cruise is with a balcony.

 

I have been in a balcony cabin a few times when I was upgraded and I noticed something interesting.  Because of how the furniture in a balcony cabin has to be arranged to allow access to the balcony door, it seems as if there is less effective interior space in a balcony cabin than in a standard cabin.

 

Just my opinion.

 

DON

[chengkp75]

12 hours ago, clo said:

Well, this was certainly under a foot in diameter and was definitely a porthole - look at the hardware 🙂

Technical note.  The steel cover for the "window" is called the "deadlight".  If the window, whether round or rectangular does not open, then it isn't a "porthole", it is a "portlight".  The round port pictured above appears to have "dogs" and hinges for not only the deadlight (hinged to the top), but also the glass (hinged to the right), so it is a "porthole".

[Joebucks]

14 hours ago, Roger88 said:

I think it was due to safety reasons and plus its much cheaper to design a ship with all cabins like the ones on the photos above. Moreover, the cruises that were sailing north seas had to be warm inside and such a cabin design could supply exactly what they needed. A safe, warm cabin 

 

If it is such a cost-savings, why do all of the modern ships have so many balconies these days? The answer is because it makes many times more money than it costs to make.

 

As much as this forum likes to talk about "cutbacks" and things removed, there were a lot of things that old ships didn't have that modern ships have today. Some may have been engineering concerns. Some was because of what the market wanted. Some may have just been oversights. The product we have today is largely there because it is what the market wants.

[cruisemom42]

15 hours ago, Hlitner said:

We also fondly remember the Fairwind,  That was a completely different era of cruising when we had nightly fabulous midnight buffets, maitre'ds prepared pastas tableside, flaming desserts really flamed, etc.  I also remember ruining a few swim suits and shirts from the soot that would sometimes come out of the stack :).  The decent "Princess Pizza" is one of the few remaining holdovers from Sitmar days.

 

Hank

 

It's amazing that in all these years of cruising we've never run into each other.   

 

Sitmar had a terrific product for the times. I still think their food (remember the pasta course?) and the dedicated, no-charge brick oven pizzeria were my gateway drug to all things Italian...  

 

And let's not forget the actual cinema!

 

[marco]

Actually...they did, but not as many.  Home Lines had 8 balcony cabins on the "Oceanic" built in 1965 and a book I have on ships and liners shows a "veranda" cabin on an Italian Liner from the '30's.

[MCC retired]

I enjoy balcony cabins on todays cruise ships but would give it all up to return to the traditionlal cruise experience that was , back in the 70's/80's .

 

[shipgeeks]

53 minutes ago, MCC retired said:

I enjoy balcony cabins on todays cruise ships but would give it all up to return to the traditionlal cruise experience that was , back in the 70's/80's .

 

Me too!  No, wait, we don't even enjoy balconies all that much.  The few times we've had one (due to the price being cheaper than oceanview), we both said we couldn't see the attraction.  But we, too, would love to have the traditional cruise experience again.

[clo]

21 minutes ago, shipgeeks said:

But we, too, would love to have the traditional cruise experience again.

Could you give a brief description of what it was like and how it was better please?

[Hlitner]

1 hour ago, MCC retired said:

I enjoy balcony cabins on todays cruise ships but would give it all up to return to the traditionlal cruise experience that was , back in the 70's/80's .

 

Hmmm.  Your post has certainly given me pause for thought.  Would I give up cars to go back to the glory days of horse and buggies?  Not so sure :).  Balcony cabins are not a deal maker/breaker for us, but it is very rare that we book a cruise without a balcony cabin.  This still happens on some of the older HAL ships where balconies are only provided with the pricey suites and we have taken an inside cabin on QM2 crossings when we figured the weather would make a balcony useless.

 

But we certainly miss the cruising experience from the 70s and 80s.  This was the era where we fell in love with cruising and those feelings have persevered even with all the current cut-backs.  On the other hand, we have just had our third cruise booking cancelled (1 by HAL and 2 by Princess) because of COVID-19 and wonder if cruising will ever be the same.  Although we still have two remaining bookings (Dec and next April) we now wonder if we will ever set foot on another cruise ship.  It sounds a bit dramatic, but it might be reality considering our senior age, the big price increases we are now seeing in future cruises, and all the uncertainties that will continue to exist on ships....given what will happen if anyone gets sick.  For us, travel is a major part of our life and that will continue as long as health allows.  But, whether we simply expand our land trips and forget about cruising is an open question.

 

A friend recently said to me, "if people like you give up on cruising the industry is doomed."  Not sure this is true but it should be a big concern for the industry.  We are part of a  large core group of cruise lovers who have the means and time to cruise many days a year.  But we, and many others, can pivot to other forms of travel if the value and attractiveness of cruise vacations is no longer a viable option.

 

Hank

[Heidi13]

18 hours ago, rkacruiser said:

 

The top photo reminds me of a cabin I had on the lowest passenger deck of S. S. Oceanic.  An "outside cabin" until one evening I returned to my cabin only to find the steel cover bolted over my porthole.  Bad weather was expected and the Cabin Stewards were instructed to cover the portholes on my deck.  My "outside" became an "inside" that night.  It was an odd feeling for me.

 

I remember making those calls, as it was another responsibility of the Bridge Team.

 

The heavy covers are known as "Deadlights" and were closed at the direction of the Master. This was standard practice when anticipating heavy weather. The call was made from the Bridge to the Pursers to close the Deadlights, with the Master advised next time he came to the Bridge. They could only be opened again on instruction from the Bridge.

 

Another interesting fact on older ships, before effective ventilation systems, the Portholes could open and we used fibreglass scoops to bring in more outside air. On many newer ships what many call portholes are in fact portlights, as many do not open.

[Heidi13]

15 hours ago, ldubs said:

 

 

I remember this being in the news with the ceremony christening by Princess Diana.  I'm shocked to be reminded that was in 1984. 

 

The original Royal Princess was most definitely a revolutionary vessel for the early 80's, especially when considering it was the first passenger ship P&O design/built for over 20 years. Such a contrast from their 2 previous buildings which were SS Canberra and SS Oriana.

 

With respect to balconies, in addition to changing passenger expectations, the balconies are a cost saving feature for owners. As a number of operational costs are based on Gross Tonnage (GT), which is based on enclosed space, so balconies are not included. The owners can provide another pax space that isn't included in GT, so any fees based on GT are reduced.

[cruisemom42]

19 minutes ago, Heidi13 said:

 

With respect to balconies, in addition to changing passenger expectations, the balconies are a cost saving feature for owners. As a number of operational costs are based on Gross Tonnage (GT), which is based on enclosed space, so balconies are not included. The owners can provide another pax space that isn't included in GT, so any fees based on GT are reduced.

 

That's an interesting insight I hadn't heard before -- thanks.

[Aquahound]

3 hours ago, MCC retired said:

I enjoy balcony cabins on todays cruise ships but would give it all up to return to the traditionlal cruise experience that was , back in the 70's/80's .

 

 

Give and take.  I too wish I could go back to the experience of old.  However, I won't cruise today without a balcony.  Well, one exception.  I'll take a panoramic oceanview room.  The draw to balcony cabins for me isn't just the balcony, but also the floor-to-ceiling windows. 

[clo]

3 minutes ago, Aquahound said:

 

Give and take.  I too wish I could go back to the experience of old.  However, I won't cruise today without a balcony.  Well, one exception.  I'll take a panoramic oceanview room.  The draw to balcony cabins for me isn't just the balcony, but also the floor-to-ceiling windows. 

Like this on Oceania's Marina:

[MCC retired]

2 hours ago, clo said:

Could you give a brief description of what it was like and how it was better please?

Smaller ships with, promenade decks, that could visit smaller ports .

Ocean views from all over the ship .

Midnight buffets.

Passenger lists.

Drink prices that were actually lower than on land .

$3 & $4 photos.

You felt at sea (good or bad) .

Bon Voyage Parties.

Bridge Tours

Trap shooting and golf driving off the stern.

 

 

 

[Heidi13]

1 hour ago, MCC retired said:

Smaller ships with, promenade decks, that could visit smaller ports .

Ocean views from all over the ship .

Midnight buffets.

Passenger lists.

Drink prices that were actually lower than on land .

$3 & $4 photos.

You felt at sea (good or bad) .

Bon Voyage Parties.

Bridge Tours

Trap shooting and golf driving off the stern.

 

A few additional memories:

• Silver service, with proficient waiters
• Variety of dishes prepared table side
• Dinner chimes
• High speed cruising for greater distance over 2 to 3 weeks - 25kts +
• Friends boarding at embarkation
• Officers in dining rooms
• Vastly superior quality of meals
• No debate on dinner attire, as everyone dressed appropriately
• Multiple curries every lunch
• Cocktail parties, where most attendees could meet & mingle rather than stand/sit in groups.
• No pressure sales, while they were still excellent at generating on-board spend, it was more refined

What I don't miss is the soot from blowing boiler tubes

 

[euro cruiser]

5 hours ago, Hlitner said:

A friend recently said to me, "if people like you give up on cruising the industry is doomed."  Not sure this is true but it should be a big concern for the industry.

 

It should be a concern but it's unlikely that it's even close to a large percentage of business.  The economics of the industry are geared to a constant stream of new users, hoping to make them repeat customers but the focus is always on new, new, new.  If heavy users like Hank were really important to the lines they would do more than an occasional lunch or dinner with the captain and a few cheesy gifts to show their appreciation.

[Hlitner]

59 minutes ago, euro cruiser said:

 

It should be a concern but it's unlikely that it's even close to a large percentage of business.  The economics of the industry are geared to a constant stream of new users, hoping to make them repeat customers but the focus is always on new, new, new.  If heavy users like Hank were really important to the lines they would do more than an occasional lunch or dinner with the captain and a few cheesy gifts to show their appreciation.

You really know how to hurt a guy :).  It does seem to be a love/hate thing with the cruise lines.  One of our favorite cruise agents (with decades of experience) has told me that her newbie clients are more likely to get free upgrades then those with lots of days.  Why?  The cruise lines want to give more to newbies to encourage them to become frequent cruisers.  But there is another reality.  The cruises we take tend to be longer and somewhat expensive.  On many of those long cruises nearly 100% are frequent cruisers and sometimes it is crazy.  On one 62 day HAL cruise nearly 3/4 of the passengers had over 300 days with HAL.  We have seen similar (with slightly lower percentages) on some other lines.  I actually think that COVID-19 may have a greater negative impact on lines like HAL who tend to attract older and more well traveled customers.   But that is just my guess and I could have it all wrong.

 

By the way, since your brought up dining with the cabin I cannot resist but tell one of my favorite ole cruise tales.  Once upon a time, a great Lady (or Dame) on Cunard was invited to dine with the Captain.  Her response:  "Sir, I do not dine with the hired help."

 

Hank

 

 

[clo]

8 hours ago, clo said:

Like this on Oceania's Marina:

@Aquahound

[AL3XCruise]

I'm curious if newer engineering methods and materials helped allow for more balconies.  A tall, thin, superstructure allows more balconies and fewer interior cabins.  I know lightweight metals and similar improvements help allow a taller superstructure, but I'm not sure if those changes were developed concurrently with the move to more balconies or if they were already in place and allowed for more balconies when the market dictated the change.

[chengkp75]

My thoughts on balcony development:

 

1.  Older ships did not have all the specialty restaurants, and their galleys, and arcades and such, so promenade decks were wider, allowing more seating on them, and more socialization.

2.  Older ships had fewer passengers, so fewer lifeboats hanging over the promenade deck, so again encouraging use of this "sun space"

3.  Demographics may have changed, so that more people wanted outside spaces, but with privacy, requiring less socialization.

4.  The reduction in GT afforded by balconies.

5.  Marketing to make the balcony cabin sound more luxurious and hence get more money for the same cabin.

[cayman09]

Our first cruise was the Fairwind in 1976. The Italian crew was fabulous, best service ever.