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rhinomike

HAL is dirty and crooked

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Just to let you know, you cannot use FCC as a deposit when you rebook.  FCC is for base fare only. Can't use FCC for excursions, dining package, spa service, EZ air, CPP.  Just base fare..This is dirty and crooked.  We opted for FCC and rest as cash refund.  Thank god we did not opted for 100% FCC.  This is so wrong. 

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We are in a black hole, I think.  Booked thru a TA, paid the final payment.  Cancelled our cruise before HAL did & are still hoping for a refund from somebody.  Called HAL & was told since we used a TA, we had to go thru them even though the TA paid HAL the money & that's how the credit card showed it.  The HAL rep said he couldn't discuss monetary issues with us.  We are waiting till May 11 to call the TA -- hopefully we'll get some kind of answer.

If anybody has any words of wisdom we'd be glad to hear them.

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Last night I opted for FCC on two cruises, B2B totaling 50 nights, that HAL cancelled yesterday.  I had booked these cruises through my TA (not big box) on April 21 with a $600.00 deposit for each.  My TA had gone for the day when the cancellation email came in, so I decided to call HAL.  I thought I was seeing things when the email stated double the amount of the deposit for each cruise if I chose the FCC.  I am a "golden senior" now, and not so sharp as I used to be, but I did ask the HAL rep for the total dollar amount of the FCC for both cruises.  Her answer was "$2400.00."

 

I informed her I had four cruises on deposit with HAL(each of which exceeds 14 days) that have not been cancelled so far, and I asked her to check with a supervisor as to whether HAL would allow me to use the $2400.00 on the next cruise on which I am supposed to sail.  She placed me on hold for close to five minutes, she returned to tell me the supervisor authorized my request, a note had been placed in my Mariner Club account, and she gave me the full name of the supervisor who authorized my request. 

 

Now from what I am seeing on the HAL forum, I do have a question as to whether or not these future cruises will occur because there are many far more intelligent people than I, including at least two retired bankers, who appear to be convinced that HAL is headed toward bankruptcy.  We'll just have to see what happens.....

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Future sailings will happen despite bankruptcy.  Look at the airlines, American, Delta, United all filled for bankruptcy in the past and still flying.  I'm not an expert in bankruptcy law, but I do have a question how bankruptcy handles FCC and cash refunds. 

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Airlines protected frequent flier miles during bankruptcy. They could have zeroed them out but chose not too.

Cruise lines are literally offering free inside cabins on some future sailings. If they screw us on FCC they will be liquidating.

They need the loyal cruisers to rebuild the future business.

They know that. FCC will be ok unless the whole company goes under.

Even if princess and HAL combine into a future HAL-Princess they will honor FCC

We need them and they need us. We are in the same boat.


Sent from my iPhone using Forums

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8 minutes ago, The-Inside-Cabin said:

Airlines protected frequent flier miles during bankruptcy. They could have zeroed them out but chose not too.

Cruise lines are literally offering free inside cabins on some future sailings. If they screw us on FCC they will be liquidating.

They need the loyal cruisers to rebuild the future business.

They know that. FCC will be ok unless the whole company goes under.

Even if princess and HAL combine into a future HAL-Princess they will honor FCC

We need them and they need us. We are in the same boat.


Sent from my iPhone using Forums

Thank you for your reassuring words!

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Janet76 said:

Just to let you know, you cannot use FCC as a deposit when you rebook.  FCC is for base fare only. Can't use FCC for excursions, dining package, spa service, EZ air, CPP.  Just base fare..This is dirty and crooked.  We opted for FCC and rest as cash refund.  Thank god we did not opted for 100% FCC.  This is so wrong. 

 

Are you 100% certain that you cannot use the FCC as a deposit?  It does seem to be possible to use it as a deposit for bookings made in Euros in Europe.   Perhaps the terms have changed again.

 

You will receive double the amount deposited (up to the base cruise fare amount) as a Future Cruise Credit. The minimum bonus FCC amount is 100. For example, if you paid 200 per person, each person will receive a Future Cruise Credit equal to the amount paid plus a bonus FCC of 200. If you booked under one of our special low deposit deals and paid less than 100 per person, you will receive a Future Cruise Credit of the amount paid plus 100 per person bonus FCC. These credits may be used toward the deposit of a new booking, and the full Terms & Conditions can be found below.

 

Remember that this is for European customers (probably UK have different terms!).  These terms are not overly generous but as they related to a cruise in November 2020 I am not overly bothered.  

My concern would be that the deposit was made with a FCC in April 2019 which had the better benefits for booking.  I wonder will the old FCC be returned with grandfathered benefits?

Edited by VMax1700

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10 hours ago, wesport said:

Arnold Donald has done a minimum of three tv interviews telling interviewers that Carnival has enough cash to last a no sail business until 2021. You just have to wait for the refund. 

That’s the wrong attitude to have.  One of the reasons Carnival has enough cash to last until 2021 is because they are pulling this kind of scam.  And the OP (and all of us awaiting refunds) should not be forced into financing Carnival Corp., which is exactly what is happening.

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11 hours ago, wesport said:

Arnold Donald has done a minimum of three tv interviews telling interviewers that Carnival has enough cash to last a no sail business until 2021. You just have to wait for the refund. 

Much of the angst here is about poor communications...as well as the refunds themselves.  CCL and HAL would do themselves a world of good if they would just put together a few stock emails about this and get them out to passengers waiting.

 

The worst thing any company can do in a situation like this is to remain silent.  Big Mistake, IMO.

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14 hours ago, rhinomike said:

So HAL waited until the day after final payment was due on our cruise for August and then cancelled it. Then proceeds to tell you it will take 90 days to get your refund. That is dirty, wrong and bad business.  We called them the day before and they assured us our cruise was a go so we allowed the final payment. Then the next day I get an email saying our cruise is cancelled. They took $20k from me and will keep it for 90 days along with everyone else on that ship.  I know exactly what they are doing and it is wrong. My cruise was cancelled on two other lines and they didn’t pull this kind of shady stuff. HAL will never get another penny of my money. I am sure the cheerleaders will defend them but how do you defend this?  They are getting desperate. Anybody that chooses a FCC you maywant to think again. I think they are in trouble to pull this kind of shady stuff. 

I am in agreement with you. File a chargeback today. 

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I am rapidly coming to the sad conclusion that we will never see our money again. It seems that almost nobody has got any refund so far from this company for the cruises they cancelled.

 

I guess I was lucky, I got 25% plus the taxes and fees refunded at once the day I called to cancel March 11, with the rest going into FCC. We are probably not going to go on a cruise before the FCC deadlines expire, so unless they allow it to be converted to be a refund, it will be lost. Even if they do allow the conversion, I don't expect to get the refund anyway.

 

Similarly for the airplane fares to and from the ports. We won't be going anywhere within their time limit to book replacement flights.

 

Placing a dispute with the credit card company also probably will not be productive, as we accepted their terms and conditions when we bought the tickets, and they will just contest the chargeback and probably will win.

 

So sadly I am not expecting to see this money again, and it will be a bonus if I do. I will keep trying but as has been pointed out previously, it is an exercise in frustration.

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17 hours ago, rhinomike said:

So HAL waited until the day after final payment was due on our cruise for August and then cancelled it. Then proceeds to tell you it will take 90 days to get your refund. That is dirty, wrong and bad business. 

Let's take a step back for a moment. It's doubtful that  HAL targeted your specific cruise date and deliberately waited until the day after final payment to cancel the sailing in order to benefit from your payment.  

 

There are many moving parts to ship operations: itineraries/timing/ports/flights/CDC, etc.  If the parts don't synchronize, the cruise is cancelled or altered.  Do you truly believe that HAL looked at your final payment date, and purposely waited until the day after to cancel your cruise ?   Your sailing was one of many in a time frame that were cancelled.  For some of those cruises,  the final payment date hadn't come yet, for others it had already passed.

 

There's a grace period on final payment deadlines, as not  everyone makes it on time. Your theory that HAL laid in wait until the exact day after the due date doesn't really work...they missed out on getting potentially thousands of dollars from late payers. 

 

Yes the timing was bad for you,  it's very unfortunate, and it's a mess.  I hope you find resolution through your credit card company.

 

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12 hours ago, The-Inside-Cabin said:

Cruise lines are literally offering free inside cabins on some future sailings. If they screw us on FCC they will be liquidating.

 

Where are you seeing free inside cabins?  

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18 hours ago, rhinomike said:

So HAL waited until the day after final payment was due on our cruise for August and then cancelled it. Then proceeds to tell you it will take 90 days to get your refund. That is dirty, wrong and bad business.  We called them the day before and they assured us our cruise was a go so we allowed the final payment. Then the next day I get an email saying our cruise is cancelled. They took $20k from me and will keep it for 90 days along with everyone else on that ship.  I know exactly what they are doing and it is wrong. My cruise was cancelled on two other lines and they didn’t pull this kind of shady stuff. HAL will never get another penny of my money. I am sure the cheerleaders will defend them but how do you defend this?  They are getting desperate. Anybody that chooses a FCC you maywant to think again. I think they are in trouble to pull this kind of shady stuff. 

Which other cruise lines are you working with?  We're also considering cutting our ties w/ HAL.  This 60 day for FCC is not cool.  I'm also waiting 60 days for a refund on our two cancelled (before final payment) cruises.  I don't remember that happening on Celebrity a few years back.  But that was just one cruise, and not the entire cruise itinerary. 

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14 hours ago, 57redbird said:

 Called HAL & was told since we used a TA, we had to go thru them even though the TA paid HAL the money & that's how the credit card showed it.  The HAL rep said he couldn't discuss monetary issues with us.  

If anybody has any words of wisdom we'd be glad to hear them.

The HAL rep was correct. 

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20 hours ago, rhinomike said:

So HAL waited until the day after final payment was due on our cruise for August and then cancelled it. Then proceeds to tell you it will take 90 days to get your refund. That is dirty, wrong and bad business.  We called them the day before and they assured us our cruise was a go so we allowed the final payment. Then the next day I get an email saying our cruise is cancelled. They took $20k from me and will keep it for 90 days along with everyone else on that ship.  I know exactly what they are doing and it is wrong. My cruise was cancelled on two other lines and they didn’t pull this kind of shady stuff. HAL will never get another penny of my money. I am sure the cheerleaders will defend them but how do you defend this?  They are getting desperate. Anybody that chooses a FCC you maywant to think again. I think they are in trouble to pull this kind of shady stuff. 

How exactly did they assure you? Did they say it was definitely going to sail, or did they say that as of that moment it was still a go? The second would be accurate. As for the first, given the situation the entire world is in, I do not see how they could give that guarantee or in fact if they did you could believe it.

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1 hour ago, ontheweb said:

How exactly did they assure you? Did they say it was definitely going to sail, or did they say that as of that moment it was still a go? The second would be accurate. As for the first, given the situation the entire world is in, I do not see how they could give that guarantee or in fact if they did you could believe it.


They told me their cruising was resuming on June 15th and our cruise was a go.  But that’s besides the point. Our cruise is 3 months away and they just so happen to cancel it the day after final payment was due?...  they knew exactly what they were doing. 

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2 hours ago, knittinggirl said:

Which other cruise lines are you working with?  We're also considering cutting our ties w/ HAL.  This 60 day for FCC is not cool.  I'm also waiting 60 days for a refund on our two cancelled (before final payment) cruises.  I don't remember that happening on Celebrity a few years back.  But that was just one cruise, and not the entire cruise itinerary. 


Honestly Royal Caribbean has been my favorite. We also sail carnival, NCL, celebrity and princess. 

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3 hours ago, Boatdrill said:

Let's take a step back for a moment. It's doubtful that  HAL targeted your specific cruise date and deliberately waited until the day after final payment to cancel the sailing in order to benefit from your payment.  

 

There are many moving parts to ship operations: itineraries/timing/ports/flights/CDC, etc.  If the parts don't synchronize, the cruise is cancelled or altered.  Do you truly believe that HAL looked at your final payment date, and purposely waited until the day after to cancel your cruise ?   Your sailing was one of many in a time frame that were cancelled.  For some of those cruises,  the final payment date hadn't come yet, for others it had already passed.

 

There's a grace period on final payment deadlines, as not  everyone makes it on time. Your theory that HAL laid in wait until the exact day after the due date doesn't really work...they missed out on getting potentially thousands of dollars from late payers. 

 

Yes the timing was bad for you,  it's very unfortunate, and it's a mess.  I hope you find resolution through your credit card company.

 


Absolutely HAL waited to cancel our cruise until the day after final payment was due. You think it was a coincidence?  Yeah right. Our cruise is three months away. They knew what was going on.  
 

Late payers........  that’s just a few people. They knew what they were doing. 3000 people on that cruise and now they get to hold their money for 3 to 6 months.  Very shady. No way to stick up for them. Nice try.  

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I have no doubt that IF we decide to sail again we would happily sail on HAL if the ship, itinerary, and price were competitive.  

 

But....we would be booking inside the final payment window close to departure date.  Just as we would on any other prefered cruise line. 

 

  We would definitely not booking at this point in time when there are so many uncertainties in the marketplace.

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I am NOT sticking up for HAL but I can honestly say that 3 airlines have pulled the same thing.  Cancel and you get a credit (useless with the expiry date) 2 out of the 3 will refund (European airlines) but I will have a long, long wait for that money.  Probably 2 - 3 months or longer and yes, they took it right away.

 

Same frustration but it’s what they are all doing due to the number of claims and to help their cash flow.  Do I want to help the airlines?  No.  Do I want my money? Yes.

 

And the 3rd will only give me a voucher which may well not be used before it expires.  Cute eh?

It’s a frustrating travel world right now, for sure.

 

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Posted (edited)
32 minutes ago, rhinomike said:


They told me their cruising was resuming on June 15th and our cruise was a go.  But that’s besides the point. Our cruise is 3 months away and they just so happen to cancel it the day after final payment was due?...  they knew exactly what they were doing. 

Considering that they have canceled cruises covering a fairly wide range of dates, with a similar variety  of final payment dates I doubt that they planned to announce the cancellations based upon your final payment date.  It had to be someone's you just got the luck of the draw.

 

For yours it was right after final payment, for others it is before final payment. 

 

I do find it rather mind boggling that anyone is considering making their final payment for cruises before October.  

Edited by npcl

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10 minutes ago, kazu said:

I am NOT sticking up for HAL but I can honestly say that 3 airlines have pulled the same thing.  Cancel and you get a credit (useless with the expiry date) 2 out of the 3 will refund (European airlines) but I will have a long, long wait for that money.  Probably 2 - 3 months or longer and yes, they took it right away.

 

Same frustration but it’s what they are all doing due to the number of claims and to help their cash flow.  Do I want to help the airlines?  No.  Do I want my money? Yes.

 

And the 3rd will only give me a voucher which may well not be used before it expires.  Cute eh?

It’s a frustrating travel world right now, for sure.

 

Have not have any issues with US lines.

 

I have had flights cancelled with United, Delta, Alaska, Hawaiian air. In all cases as soon as I got notified of a major change in the flight I contacted each airline.  Had no problems getting refunds.  Longest wait for a refund showing up on my credit card was 15 days.

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4 minutes ago, npcl said:

Considering that they have canceled cruises covering a fairly wide range of dates, with a similar variety  of final payment dates I doubt that they planned to announce the cancellations based upon your final payment date.  It had to be someone's you just got the luck of the draw.

 

I do find it rather mind boggling that anyone is considering making their final payment for cruises before October.  


To my understanding they have not cancelled all of their cruises they are cancelling them one by one. Right after final payment dates. So yeah. That is shady business. 
 

 

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