Social distancing on a cruise ship

[ray98]

1 hour ago, beerman2 said:

"Age discrimination " comes to mind if you're suggesting banning a certain (older) age group. The lawyers would have a field day with that.

 

 

 

That doesn't work that way.  Anyway, if they wanted to do that all they need to do is ask the CDC to issue an advisory.

[JustAPilot]

I just don’t see it, if concerts are a no go how are they going to make a ship work? Are they going to operate the Bliss with 500, 100 people onboard? I don’t even think they can break even on fuel with only 500 paid passengers, forget about everyone else that needs to get paid. And then ports, unless you love cruising to nowhere or going to the private island all week then who will spend their hard earn vacation money on that? 

[beerman2]

24 minutes ago, ray98 said:

 

That doesn't work that way.  Anyway, if they wanted to do that all they need to do is ask the CDC to issue an advisory.

There are many things more important the cruise lines need to address with the CDC than age!

 

Lets see how those play out first!

[sanger727]

13 hours ago, JustAPilot said:

I just don’t see it, if concerts are a no go how are they going to make a ship work? Are they going to operate the Bliss with 500, 100 people onboard? I don’t even think they can break even on fuel with only 500 paid passengers, forget about everyone else that needs to get paid. And then ports, unless you love cruising to nowhere or going to the private island all week then who will spend their hard earn vacation money on that? 

 

Just a guess here. But yes, I think they will they start knowing they will lose money on those first sailings now matter what. Like all the businesses slowly starting back up that are operating a reduced capacity I think it will be more of a proof of concept that they can make cruising "safe". Once they have a track record they will start upping the capacity. Running nonprofitable cruises may just need to be an investment they have to make to get the industry started back up again.

[jsn55]

On 5/8/2020 at 2:14 PM, Sunseeker810 said:

So, I just got off the phone with NCL.  I asked if they were planning on sailing with a lesser capacity in order to social distance on the pool deck.  The answer was no.  They do however plan to space out the chairs.  I said that it can be impossible to get a chair as it is.  I was told to go out earlier.  I am usually out there by 7AM.  Perhaps I should go out at 3AM???

 

[jsn55]

On 5/8/2020 at 2:22 PM, Georgia_Peaches said:

Wish NCL would publish a plan of what they do intend to do when sailing resumes.  If I have to social distance on a cruise, then I'm not cruising.  

 

Sounds like you won't be cruising for a while. 

How could any cruise line publish a plan of any kind at this time?  Anyone who cruises as soon as we're back cruising needs to be ready for anything.  If NCL publishes their "intentions" today, that will be taken for gospel ... any changes down the road (like the next week or even the next day) could go unnoticed, then everybody will start screaming and jumping up and down because they weren't paying attention.   

[coffeebean]

On 5/8/2020 at 6:56 PM, Loucat said:

It would have been great if the CDC or many  health department ads told how to use a mask. If someone is not familiar with the fact the mouth and nose should be covered, they make masks useless . How many times do you see masks only covering the mouth or even worse, not covering the mouth and nose.

On social distancing, how would cruise lines limit pax in elevators? We are packed in like sardines and the elevator cab does not seem to allow 6' of distance between pax.

This is how I would handle elevators.......Upon waiting for and entering an elevator, masks must be worn. If you can not wear a mask for medical reasons, you must take the stairs. If you can not walk up or down stairs, you can not get on a cruise ship.

 

All elevators must be manned by a crew member 24 hours a day. The crew member must make sure all people entering the elevator have a mask on. No mask, you do not ride in an elevator. You take the stairs. You can not walk up and down stairs, you do not cruise.

 

If you do not have a mask with you to put on before getting in the elevator, you will be denied getting in the elevator. You must always carry a mask.

[coffeebean]

On 5/8/2020 at 5:22 PM, HaveWeMetYet said:

Hopefully there will not be any social distancing requirements on cruises or requirements to wear a mask. About 95 percent of the people I see wearing masks either have something like a scarf that is about useless or they are constantly pulling the thing up and down to scratch their face.

Any kind of face covering will block droplets. That is what the mask is for.....to block droplets. Home made and cloth masks are not to protect the wearer; masks are to prevent the spread of the virus.

[coffeebean]

On 5/8/2020 at 7:23 PM, Outerdog said:

 

They help. They do not "protect everyone else" -- they offer some protection.

Take a look at this quick video which demonstrates how a mask blocks droplets. Droplets are the way this virus moves from one host to another.........

 

 

[coffeebean]

On 5/8/2020 at 8:25 PM, BirdTravels said:

Going to the store, I would say at least 1/3 of the masks being worn are N95 masks that protect the people wearing them from those who could care less. 

N95 masks are not supposed to be used by the general public. Those masks are to be only for use by health care workers on the front lines. This is why we were told by the CDC and Dr. Fauci that we are to use home made masks with cloth or even a bandana.

[Loucat]

Coffeebean-There is no restriction on N95 masks to be used by  the general public. I am a nurse and am not aware of any CDC- or Dr. Fauci restriction on the use of N95 masks. Dr. Fauci does not set policy-he offers recommendations on pandemic issues.

The CDC has no guideline on the use of N95 masks for public use.

The issue is there are not enough of them for healthcare workers or the general public. Home made masks and other such facial coverings are in place of the more protective N95 masks. 

Anyone prior to this pandemic could purchase N95 masks online.  CDC has published lists of approved lists in place of N95 masks and if anyone can find them, they are welcome to purchase these masks for personal use.  I purchased N 95 masks during the last outbreak and was fortunate to have them for this pandemic.

I would also add not too long ago, Dr. Fauci was downplaying the value of masks for the general public. He has since changed that position.

[mking8288]

Up until recently (3 to 4 months ago) - anyone and everyone is free to order & buy N95 masks (a/k/a "respirators, of a passive nature) online, thru major medical supply distributors and even at the retail level (prices & availability varied, of course.)  The user should be fit tested and learn how to properly put them on and safely dispose of them - where I used to work, they go into the red bins as hazmat disposal.  There are OSHA guidelines governing how they should be used and where, etc. in hazardous settings - and that federal agency has been silent. 

 

I am going to mention this again, first responders doing post 9/11 recovery work at NY's ground zero were told by then EPA adminitrator that the air was safe, not toxic and many did not have PPE including N95 masks while working at the flatten WTC site and nearby, not for days but for weeks.  Look it up at the WTC Health Registry.  Many of us that returned to downtown Manhattan's restricted zones then - do not, and still do not have faith and trust in the feds for the deadly lessons.   When the healthcare profession across the country (and elsewhere) sounded the alarms recently, we just knew, sadly and tragically, the nightmare as we now beginning to come to terms with.  

 

CDC amended, changed and revised their guidelines & recommendations to best cope with the pandemic on a global disaster scale.  The shortage was and is still acute, maybe on par with run on the toilet paper - common disinfectant that was once available at Home Depot & major retailers and supermarket chains are still missing, out of stock & not available.  

 

I just checked earlier this week, they are available on the average person except for the KN95 variants, some of them are likely not certified and tested to meet/exceed US standards.  Some of the medical and/or N95 style masks being worn are probably just overpriced lookalike - just go read some of the Amazon reviews.  I have a small reserve of 3 different kinds of expired N95 masks and saving them for emergencies, as medical reserve corp volunteers reporting for assignments are being assured of having the basics.  Luckily, we still have a box of surgical masks but for a simple walk outside in the park, plenty of open space & fresh air, without crowds ... those reusable cotton masks will do the job as intended. 

 

The concept of "universal precautions" is easily understood but often ignored by the general public.  If we do not get ahead of the next or second wave, we are going to run smack into more problems and issues with the entire supply chains, not just medical and food sources.  

 

Now, let's get back on track about social distancing onboard ... a limit of 4 for riding an elevator, if you must use them - AI or digitally managed.  I can see a very, very queue before/after the shows and for dis/embarkation - not going to be fun, not at all. 

 

 

Edited May 29, 2020 by mking8288

[coffeebean]

1 hour ago, Loucat said:

Coffeebean-There is no restriction on N95 masks to be used by  the general public. I am a nurse and am not aware of any CDC- or Dr. Fauci restriction on the use of N95 masks. Dr. Fauci does not set policy-he offers recommendations on pandemic issues.

The CDC has no guideline on the use of N95 masks for public use.

The issue is there are not enough of them for healthcare workers or the general public. Home made masks and other such facial coverings are in place of the more protective N95 masks. 

Anyone prior to this pandemic could purchase N95 masks online.  CDC has published lists of approved lists in place of N95 masks and if anyone can find them, they are welcome to purchase these masks for personal use.  I purchased N 95 masks during the last outbreak and was fortunate to have them for this pandemic.

I would also add not too long ago, Dr. Fauci was downplaying the value of masks for the general public. He has since changed that position.

I should have rephrased that to:  the general public was asked not to use N95 masks because there was not enough of them for health care workers on the front lines. Those people who owned N95 masks prior to the pandemic are frowned up when they wear N95 masks in public in my neck of the woods.

 

The reason Dr. Fauci told the public that masks were not necessary for healthy people is because there were not enough masks for the front line health care workers. It infuriates me when I think of how the course of this pandemic might have been changed if only our experts were honest with the American people early on. Tell us straight that we need to cover our faces but do not use medical grade masks. Make your own face coverings. They eventually did tell the public just that but it was too late. Americans are very resourceful and made masks of cloth and what ever else to cover their faces. Instructional videos were booming on YouTube. Americans joined the war effort against this invisible enemy and we are still fighting it.

Edited May 29, 2020 by coffeebean

[Loucat]

Well-We wear our N 95 masks when we do venture out. To be honest, I do not see anyone even reacting nor realizing an N95 mask from any other mask. Interesting that  you have others reacting. Most do not even notice what masks are in use.

We are in South Florida and I see you are also in Florida. What makes the difference?

[Loucat]

I see a request to get back on track to elevators on cruise ships, but feel it best to share a link from the CDC on masks.

I realize they as so many federal agencies have not done well in this pandemic, but I hope they can at least provide guidance on what are the safest masks. So many vendors are selling who knows what?

Take this as information to use or not. Hoping all stay safe and healthy.

https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npptl/topics/respirators/disp_part/default.html

[BirdTravels]

2 hours ago, coffeebean said:

N95 masks are not supposed to be used by the general public. Those masks are to be only for use by health care workers on the front lines. This is why we were told by the CDC and Dr. Fauci that we are to use home made masks with cloth or even a bandana.

There is no restriction on buying or using N95 masks. There is no restriction on buying or using surgical masks. My office building issues a fresh surgical mask to each employee each day and has a contract with a manufacturer for those masks. Since there are so many people who refuse to wear a mask and refuse to socially distance, a proper N95 mask is what we use when we are out and about. 

[pcakes122]

While people are debating back and forth about the efficacy of masks, I thought I might as throw out there that most people I've seen using disinfectants are not using them effectively.

 

Although Covid-19 isn't generally transmitted on surfaces, if it makes you feel better that surfaces are disinfected then you have to use chemicals in the proper way.  No matter what the disinfectant, there is a "kill" or "contact" time that is needed for the surface to remain VISIBLY WET in order to kill the particular virus you are targeting. Wiping something down with a Clorox wipe doesn't help anything unless there is enough liquid on the wipe to keep the surface wet for FOUR SOLID minutes.  I have seen people wipe down carts and surfaces in grocery stores and immediately touch them afterwards.  Sorry, not disinfected. (Here's the data on kill time for Clorox wipes directly from the Clorox website - but every brand of disinfect it has its own kill time.

[Outerdog]

2 hours ago, coffeebean said:

Americans joined the war effort against this invisible enemy and we are still fighting it.

 

Seriously?

 

Is everything a war in America?

[JT1962]

Maybe masks won’t be an issue based on an apparent change by the WHO that they aren’t needed by most people.

 

“The World Health Organization is recommending healthy people, including those who don't exhibit COVID-19 symptoms, only wear masks when taking care of someone infected with the contagion, a sharp contrast from the advice given by American public health officials who recommend everyone wear a mask in public.

 

"If you do not have any repository symptoms such as fever, cough or runny nose, you do not need to wear a mask," Dr. April Baller, a public health specialist for the WHO, says in a video on the world health body's website. "Masks should only be used by health care workers, caretakers or by people who are sick with symptoms of fever and cough."

 

 

https://www.foxnews.com/world/who-guidance-healthy-people-wear-masks-around-coronavirus-patients

 

 

https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/advice-for-public/when-and-how-to-use-masks

 

 

 

[HaveWeMetYet]

Mask = Teddy Bears for Adults as far as Covid 19 goes if you listen to science.

[yearsofcruising]

wonder how much of this is really true concerning mask wearing on-board , etc. Not objecting ! but 6 ft apart by the pool ? Bad enough only half the pax get to use them , now only 25% probably... I , too , would cruise again. Considering my 2 cruises a year now are not happening. And being on a 1st phase of cruising when they return , that too , is probably not happening until things  really calm down

[drvmywifecrzy]

If I am not infected, how is a mask stopping me from spreading a disease I don't have

[KateQ22003]

1 hour ago, drvmywifecrzy said:

If I am not infected, how is a mask stopping me from spreading a disease I don't have

The question is, how do you know you don't have the disease if you are asymptomatic? 

[Newleno]

1 hour ago, drvmywifecrzy said:

If I am not infected, how is a mask stopping me from spreading a disease I don't have

and this is why the disease is still spreading, cue drum and cymbal 

[momofmab]

I also read that article today, JT. 

 

It's no wonder this whole thing has been such a $#!&-Show.  On any given day, Fauci says one thing, the CDC says another - WHO, yet another thing.  Our President is in his own parallel universe.  Nothing is consistent, hardly anything is clear.  The public was mislead about the masks in the beginning (how sad is it that we had to be lied to in order to preserve masks for the essential workers?!)  The federal government has failed MISERABLY in gaining the public's trust.  If we trusted our government, we'd be more likely to comply with what they are asking us to do.

 

I wear the mask when I am out at the grocery (pretty much the only place I go now).  I wear it to make others feel better but I really don't feel any more protected because I see other people wearing them (and don't get me started on the glove-wearing, which will do nothing other than end up in our landfills).  Those of us who aren't surgeons or working with infectious diseases on a daily basis, have NO idea on proper mask-wearing protocol.  We wear the same mask over and over, it doesn't fit properly and gaps on the side.  We pull it down to itch our nose and to get a precious breath of fresh air, or to talk to others.  Some people are wearing N95's, some are wearing paper-thin bandanas.  We hang it on our rearview mirror of our car so it's handy to grab.    How would we feel if our surgeon grabbed her mask out of the bottom of her dirty handbag before a surgery?  I'd love to see the results of lab testing on the masks that are being worn for weeks at a time!

 

Again - I will continue to wear my mask to the precious few public place that I frequent,  I just don't have a high confidence level in the overall effectiveness- and the daily flip-flopping of the health organizations that are supposed to provide guidance, isn't helping.