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Why is there no intermediate mid-market cruise line?


ren0312
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50 minutes ago, George C said:

Not impressed with a 216 sq ft suite , most of the suites we stay in are double the space with better perks

You  get more bang for your buck on main stream lines

Not all cabins on Oceania are  that size 

 

We prefer smaller ships  though

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1 hour ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

Don't knock premium/luxury lines until you've tried them.

As you likely recall, December was our first Oceania cruise and, if we cruise again, we want to do O again. The specialty restaurants were definitely "special." Best escargots I've ever had. Lobster mac n cheese that, I swear, had as much lobster as mac. And, oh my, those thousand thread count sheets. Sigh 🙂  Well, you get my point. I would encourage anyone to at least give it a try.

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One point... everybody is different..... and an average meal to someone can be a great meal to the next people

 

Also for most people.... cost does come into it...... 

So the question becomes if the extra cost worth it, some will say yes others no.....

 

Then is comes down to how or what you expect from your cruise.......

 

So main stream.... mid tier  or high end   .... it is totally up to the each person to decided......

 

To honest.... we go main stream.... why..... it sails from our port and like the itinerary ...and brings us back....

 

Also  we can afford a nice suite.. which gives us lot of room.... as we spend time in our cabin......

 

Then you look at other options   is it worth twice as much.... could be ??

 

 

The other thought is just how many days can you fine dine, for breakfast, lunch and dinner.... with beverages flowing....

 

We have found four nights is enough,,, before you start to wanting something simple.... but that is us

 

It is wonderful everybody is different.... otherwise everything would be the same    with only one choice.....

 

Cheers Don     ( almost time for a G&T )

 

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11 hours ago, rkacruiser said:

The definitions for all of the cruise lines' advertising is going to be needed to be revised when we get on the other side of this virus.

 

 

Free coronavirus vaccination packages? Free PPE packages? 

Edited by ren0312
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6 hours ago, getting older slowly said:

One point... everybody is different..... and an average meal to someone can be a great meal to the next people

 

Also for most people.... cost does come into it...... 

So the question becomes if the extra cost worth it, some will say yes others no.....

 

Then is comes down to how or what you expect from your cruise.......

 

So main stream.... mid tier  or high end   .... it is totally up to the each person to decided......

 

To honest.... we go main stream.... why..... it sails from our port and like the itinerary ...and brings us back....

 

Also  we can afford a nice suite.. which gives us lot of room.... as we spend time in our cabin......

 

Then you look at other options   is it worth twice as much.... could be ??

 

 

The other thought is just how many days can you fine dine, for breakfast, lunch and dinner.... with beverages flowing....

 

We have found four nights is enough,,, before you start to wanting something simple.... but that is us

 

It is wonderful everybody is different.... otherwise everything would be the same    with only one choice.....

 

Cheers Don     ( almost time for a G&T )

 

When you wrote "before you start to wanting something simple" made me chuckle as it brought up a memory of our very first cruise. Right near the end, DW got tired of being served and all the fancy food and said, "I just want peanut butter and jelly.".

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How is the entertainment on Oceania and Viking, that is a huge factor on our decision for a cruise. While I love suite perks on celebrity, there normal entertainment is mediocre, so we now do music charters on celebrity which for us is best of both , I get great live entertainment 12 hours a day and there suite restaurant and lounge. We also love rccl entertainment but prefer celebrity suite perks. 

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24 minutes ago, George C said:

How is the entertainment on Oceania and Viking, that is a huge factor on our decision for a cruise. While I love suite perks on celebrity, there normal entertainment is mediocre, so we now do music charters on celebrity which for us is best of both , I get great live entertainment 12 hours a day and there suite restaurant and lounge. We also love rccl entertainment but prefer celebrity suite perks. 

Just the size of Oceania ships limits what can be done in the showroom.

 

Since the consolidation of NCLH, O uses the same talent agency as does NCL. That said, recognize that the basic "show" entertainment group is limited to two dancers and three singers. Other entertainers are the usual comedians, magic and, soloists, etc. 

 

Where Oceania shines is in the live string quartet that plays in varying locations throughout the day (and piano music in Martini's). And the lecturer are mostly excellent as is the new "on demand" movie selections.

 

But, if you're looking for big production shows, do what we do and head to NYC for a Broadway show overload every two years (though we'll occasionally catch the road shows here in SF).

 

Finally, as aforementioned: where Oceania is unequalled is FOOD. Add to that great service with favorable crew/space ratios, terrific long and longer itineraries on small well-appointed ships and a well-traveled professionally accomplished passenger demographic.

 

It works for us.

Edited by Flatbush Flyer
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10 hours ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

I'm sorry but, like any other yacht sailor, I have to chuckle when folks cite cabin size as a major factor in making a cruise decision. 

It's ship cabin. IMO, all that should matter in a cabin is the quality of the bedding, AV tech sophistication, storage and quality of service.

Maybe . Cabin size is important but so are the elements in that cabin, namely how long since it was completely renewed . By renewed I don't mean a change of sheets and possibly carpet .

Personally I wonder how luxe Regatta and the rest of the R class ships can be . 

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4 minutes ago, richstowe said:

Maybe . Cabin size is important but so are the elements in that cabin, namely how long since it was completely renewed . By renewed I don't mean a change of sheets and possibly carpet .

Personally I wonder how luxe Regatta and the rest of the R class ships can be . 

Google "Oceania NEXT."

Over the past year, the R ships have received total interior makeovers (Nautica will be the last one done - scheduled in Marseille next month [ship yard recently started back to work]. R Cabins also got complete redo including better storage and tech upgrades like OnDemand TV programming. 

FWIW, when O purchased Ocean Princess about 5 years ago, it spent $40 million to bring it up to O standards as Sirena. And now, a second complete makeover. 

With less than 700 passengers and stellar crew and space ratios, Oceania's R ships are a real favorite of O regulars ;including us).

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46 minutes ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

Just the size of Oceania ships limits what can be done in the showroom.

 

Since the consolidation of NCLH, O uses the same talent agency as does NCL. That said, recognize that the basic "show" entertainment group is limited to two dancers and three singers. Other entertainers are the usual comedians, magic and, soloists, etc. 

 

Where Oceania shines is in the live string quartet that plays in varying locations throughout the day (and piano music in Martini's). And the lecturer are mostly excellent as is the new "on demand" movie selections.

 

But, if you're looking for big production shows, do what we do and head to NYC for a Broadway show overload every two years (though we'll occasionally catch the road shows here in SF).

 

Finally, as aforementioned: where Oceania is unequalled is FOOD. Add to that great service with favorable crew/space ratios, terrific long and longer itineraries on small well-appointed ships and a well-traveled professionally accomplished passenger demographic.

 

It works for us.

We were supposed to be in nyc this week would have seen 4 plays and a Todd Rundgren concert who we saw on music charter a few months ago and was excellent. On food have you eaten in celebrity suite restaurant luminae? We have been very happy there , curious how that compares to Oceania . 

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1 hour ago, George C said:

. On food have you eaten in celebrity suite restaurant luminae? We have been very happy there , curious how that compares to Oceania . 

never  been on Celebrity  but Oceania is not segregated 

everyone gets  to eat in any restaurant 

 plus you are not sailing  with 3000 +  pax

Shows  are not the highlight  & you cannot compare any regular cruise  to a chartered music cruise

 

Do what works best for you 

JMO

 

 

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2 hours ago, George C said:

How is the entertainment on Oceania and Viking, that is a huge factor on our decision for a cruise. While I love suite perks on celebrity, there normal entertainment is mediocre, so we now do music charters on celebrity which for us is best of both , I get great live entertainment 12 hours a day and there suite restaurant and lounge. We also love rccl entertainment but prefer celebrity suite perks. 


Neither of those lines are known for their entertainment. However, I give the edge to Viking because they brought local talent on from each port, and the live music played later in to the night. 

 

1 hour ago, George C said:

We were supposed to be in nyc this week would have seen 4 plays and a Todd Rundgren concert who we saw on music charter a few months ago and was excellent. On food have you eaten in celebrity suite restaurant luminae? We have been very happy there , curious how that compares to Oceania . 


To be honest, my favorite lines for food are Windstar and Disney. For MDR food, I’d put Oceania slightly above Celebrity, but I liked Luminae better than Oceania’s offerings. 
 

The problem with Oceania is they tend to call themselves the gold standard in food, so you go in with an expectation. That might work for those who know no different, but if you actually sail multiple lines, you’re likely to be underwhelmed.  

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10 hours ago, getting older slowly said:

 

Also for most people.... cost does come into it...... 

So the question becomes if the extra cost worth it, some will say yes others no.....

 

Then is comes down to how or what you expect from your cruise.......

 

So main stream.... mid tier  or high end   .... it is totally up to the each person to decided......

 

To honest.... we go main stream.... why..... it sails from our port and like the itinerary ...and brings us back....

 

Also  we can afford a nice suite.. which gives us lot of room.... as we spend time in our cabin......

 

Then you look at other options   is it worth twice as much.... could be ??

 

 

The other thought is just how many days can you fine dine, for breakfast, lunch and dinner.... with beverages flowing....

 

We have found four nights is enough,,, before you start to wanting something simple.... but that is us

 

It is wonderful everybody is different.... otherwise everything would be the same    with only one choice.....

 

Cheers Don     ( almost time for a G&T )

 

 

Lots of great points.

 

However, when comparing costs, it is essential to compare the total crew cost. Our recent Viking Ocean cruise has a significantly higher base fare compared to a similar Princess Cruise. When all costs were included the per diem was almost identical.

 

With longer cruises we also find fine dinning can get somewhat repetitive, but always find some basic options. Mind you the pie and real chips first night home was brilliant.  😀

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36 minutes ago, LHT28 said:

never  been on Celebrity  but Oceania is not segregated 

everyone gets  to eat in any restaurant 

 plus you are not sailing  with 3000 +  pax

Shows  are not the highlight  & you cannot compare any regular cruise  to a chartered music cruise

 

Do what works best for you 

JMO

 

 

We sailed on renaissance cruises in 2001 right before they went under and I believe they were very similar to Oceania and they bought several of there ships when they went out of business, loved our renaissance cruise, adults only and non smoking.

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1 hour ago, George C said:

We sailed on renaissance cruises in 2001 right before they went under and I believe they were very similar to Oceania and they bought several of there ships when they went out of business, loved our renaissance cruise, adults only and non smoking.

Yes  they have the R ships  but   nicely renovated

Plus 2 larger new builds   @ 1250 pax

The do have 2 small smoking  sections however

 

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I trust that most O "regulars" (e.g., at least, 1 or more O cruises annually) would agree that it's the "total O package" that they find unequalled in the industry. In esssnce then, it's not just the food (which is constantly praised by the pros from Bon Appetit, Saveur et al.). It's the entire experience one might come to expect from a "home away from home." 

But, like anything, the fit has to be there and, luckily for us, the fit is excellent.

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I don't really believe that there is any sizable market that isn't represented by a cruise brand that exists today. People will always look for something else, or believe the grass is greener on the other side. At the end of the day, the market has largely decided why most products exist as they do.

 

The market has overwhelmingly chosen Royal, Norwegian, and Carnival for a reason. Some people will plug their favorite line and say it's because a lot of people don't have fine tastes like theirs. The market wants price, choice, and convenience more than they want some other things. As you move up in "quality" of certain things, you often trade off such was less entertainment venues, older crowd, etc. However, lines exist for almost everyone.

 

The statement of "slot in between Carnival and Seabourne" and "higher quality food and service than mass market" can clash. There are many tiers of cruise lines. I believe what the OP is looking for is more of a Celebrity or HAL-type experience. Heck, maybe it's even on an MSC ship, but in the yacht club. Depending on point of view, it may be difficult to directly stick them in the "middle".

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On 5/19/2020 at 1:35 PM, ontheweb said:

When you wrote "before you start to wanting something simple" made me chuckle as it brought up a memory of our very first cruise. Right near the end, DW got tired of being served and all the fancy food and said, "I just want peanut butter and jelly.".

Reminds me of being near the end of a 42 day Amazon cruise. I just had to have a BLT for breakfast one day. Bread, bacon, tomato - no problem - I ended up having to nick the lettuce garnishes from other trays in the buffet. worth it though! (not a premium line, I hasten to add).

Edited by SteveH2508
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2 hours ago, SteveH2508 said:

Reminds me of being near the end of a 42 day Amazon cruise. I just had to have a BLT for breakfast one day. Bread, bacon, tomato - no problem - I ended up having to nick the lettuce garnishes from other trays in the buffet. worth it though! (not a premium line, I hasten to add).

I have woken up with the same craving - rather needing - of bacon for breakfast , but no interest in accompanying eggs or pancakes - the BLT comes into its own at moments like that — sometimes, though, locating the necessary mayonnaise at a breakfast buffet can be a challenge.

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41 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

I have woken up with the same craving - rather needing - of bacon for breakfast , but no interest in accompanying eggs or pancakes - the BLT comes into its own at moments like that — sometimes, though, locating the necessary mayonnaise at a breakfast buffet can be a challenge.

Sometimes  just asking  the staff will get you an item that is not in sight 😉

 

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