Rethinking Muster Drills

[LHT28]

2 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

 what is important is:  show up and shut up.

 I agree

👍

[LHT28]

2 hours ago, WESTEAST said:

Last year on Marina, we went to Grand Dining Room and this Jan-Feb, on Regatta also went to Grand Dining Room for our drills; on renovated Regatta,

It will depend on your cabin location where  your muster station is

 We have been in the GDR  &  Marina Lounge  for muster

some will muster in Horizons &  Martinis bar (no drinks) 😉

Usually on the R ship  they lead you out on deck 5 after the talk  to the lifeboats

 

 

[pris993]

12 hours ago, Roz said:

Where are these indoor muster stations?  I've only had outdoor stations on HAL and Carnival.  The one indoor station was on Princess.  

I have cruised on 9 different lines over the years.... muster done a number of different ways... Princess does inside, HAL out...Princess has the video on the cabin tv, can't watch anything else on tv till muster video finished.

[ontheweb]

9 hours ago, clo said:

Not worth over-working this side subject, but we did have to have our cards scanned.

It may very well be that they do more than is required by law. See post #43 by you for the possible reason.

[ontheweb]

7 hours ago, pris993 said:

I have cruised on 9 different lines over the years.... muster done a number of different ways... Princess does inside, HAL out...Princess has the video on the cabin tv, can't watch anything else on tv till muster video finished.

On our last HAL cruise, we had the muster inside, but were then led to our lifeboat stations. The ship was the Maasdam, one of their older, smaller ships.

[chengkp75]

9 hours ago, Heidi13 said:

 

The ships I'm not certain about are Alaska State's Columbia & Matinuska as they do the trips up to Alaska from Bellingham. I did a few years on our North Coast aboard the Queen of the North and being Near Coastal/HTII we didn't require Muster Drills, only the announcements. 

Since the USCG defines "near coastal" as anything out to 200 miles from shore, I'm pretty sure those two ships will also fall in the "near coastal" category.

[euro cruiser]

12 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Again, in reality, listening to announcements in the drill is not all that important, what is important is:  show up and shut up.

 

So many people show up already half in the bag, talking, etc. that I always feel like I've got to pay strict attention.  I'm pretty sure that very few of the people around me are going to be of any help in an actual emergency.

[chengkp75]

31 minutes ago, euro cruiser said:

 

So many people show up already half in the bag, talking, etc. that I always feel like I've got to pay strict attention.  I'm pretty sure that very few of the people around me are going to be of any help in an actual emergency.

We really don't plan that many are of help.

[navybankerteacher]

If we cannot even figure out how to conduct an emergency drill - which is fairly well orchestrated by staff members every step of the way, how well are we going to handle the sort of free-for-alls which other cruise activities become:  getting into the MDR, lining up for the theatre, negotiating the cafeteria, even just going ashore for a port call?

[SmoothFlying]

21 hours ago, donaldsc said:

How are you going to verify that the people actually watched the video as opposed to turning on the TV and just ignoring what is on?  

 

Or, went out to the balcony or to the pool.. Unless they have to swipe a S&S card within seconds after said video. Regardless the method, some people, if left to their own devices, WILLL find a way around it. That's human nature. I agree with the posting that said there has to be a way to do a simple chore like the Drill. But I also agree that outside in the 90+ heat, packed together so tightly, you can't breath, doesn't make it conductive to listening instead, the passengers are thinking, ' Oh my goodness ! Please just get this OVER !'. Of course, all this is just IMHO. 😃

 

Mac

[pris993]

8 minutes ago, SmoothFlying said:

Or, went out to the balcony or to the pool.. Unless they have to swipe a S&S card within seconds after said video. Regardless the method, some people, if left to their own devices, WILLL find a way around it. That's human nature. I agree with the posting that said there has to be a way to do a simple chore like the Drill. But I also agree that outside in the 90+ heat, packed together so tightly, you can't breath, doesn't make it conductive to listening instead, the passengers are thinking, ' Oh my goodness ! Please just get this OVER !'. Of course, all this is just IMHO. 😃

 

Mac

I don't worry much about what others do.  TV video is good enough for me.  After 60+ cruises I could conduct the safety drill. 

 

[JimnKaren]

And, then there is this. For those of us who cruised on a specific ship prior to February, 2020 - we are excused from muster if on that same ship. Listening to announcement is one thing, know how to do the stairs and then locate the appropriate muster station is another. If I were on cruise liner X and attended muster last summer, then I know how to get to the muster station. Where to go is on the back of the door and on your cruise card. If my muster station was "D" and it is now "E", I believe that I am smart enough to know the difference and get there when the time comes to actually prepare to abandon ship.

Jim

[SmoothFlying]

4 minutes ago, pris993 said:

I don't worry much about what others do.  TV video is good enough for me.  After 60+ cruises I could conduct the safety drill. 

Yes, I know what you mean. I feel the same way, I'd love the room video also. Of course this is just my opinion but given the absolute control of the powers to be. They (and the insurance companies) are always concerned about those passengers, with the attention span of a flea, who don't know (or care) about where to go OR what to do IF (goodness forbid) an mishap at sea happened and they survived, this folks pack social media and CNN screaming, 'NO one told us nothin' about where we'un was gonna go or do !'. So,maybe it's for that reason we all have too attend the Drill.  

Mac

[ontheweb]

10 minutes ago, JimnKaren said:

And, then there is this. For those of us who cruised on a specific ship prior to February, 2020 - we are excused from muster if on that same ship. Listening to announcement is one thing, know how to do the stairs and then locate the appropriate muster station is another. If I were on cruise liner X and attended muster last summer, then I know how to get to the muster station. Where to go is on the back of the door and on your cruise card. If my muster station was "D" and it is now "E", I believe that I am smart enough to know the difference and get there when the time comes to actually prepare to abandon ship.

Jim

Once again the point that chengkp75 made that the drill is actually more for the crew to actually herd the passengers is being ignored.

[chengkp75]

53 minutes ago, pris993 said:

I don't worry much about what others do.  TV video is good enough for me.  After 60+ cruises I could conduct the safety drill. 

 

Yeah, after 45 years of weekly fire drills, I think I'll just skip out and watch one on the TV.  Hope you're not counting on me to keep you safe.

[CruiserBruce]

There an old saying..."you fight the way you train". If watching a video, maybe even at home before you board, is going to make you ready for an emergency....smh...

 

That is why, on a cruise a few years ago, when a small fire occurred in the Lido kitchen at about midnight, the alarms went off, and a calm voice said "stay in your cabins" or "return to your cabins and await instructions". We clearly observed pax running down the halls, throwing on their lifejackets, and yelling. Yep...following directions and remaining calm....

[navybankerteacher]

1 hour ago, SmoothFlying said:

...

 

...But I also agree that outside in the 90+ heat, packed together so tightly, you can't breath, doesn't make it conductive to listening instead, the passengers are thinking, ' Oh my goodness ! Please just get this OVER !'. Of course, all this is just IMHO. 😃

 

Mac

Then, of course, there are other angles — try standing on deck at Manhattan Cruise Terminal on a 10 degree day in January with a 35 mph wind whistling down the ice floe filled Hudson — while waiting for some no-shows to be identified.

[Aquahound]

14 hours ago, clo said:

We'll be heading up there soon. In our motorhome so still able to social distance. We always go to Whidbey for mussels 🙂 and this time we're thinking about coming in from a different direction and take the ferry from Port Townsend to Whidbey. OT - sorry.

 

For the time being, they're asking drive-on passengers to remain in their vehicles.  Not sure how long they plan to keep that in place though.  

 

14 hours ago, Heidi13 said:

 

The ships I'm not certain about are Alaska State's Columbia & Matinuska as they do the trips up to Alaska from Bellingham. I did a few years on our North Coast aboard the Queen of the North and being Near Coastal/HTII we didn't require Muster Drills, only the announcements. 

 

A few years ago, I rode the Kennicott out of Bellingham enroute Juneau.  It was a very informal drill.  Like the WSFs, it was announced over the PA, but there was no muster.  However, they did have crew demonstrating the donning of life jackets in the main passenger area, and down on the car deck.  

[Heidi13]

1 hour ago, pris993 said:

I don't worry much about what others do.  TV video is good enough for me.  After 60+ cruises I could conduct the safety drill. 

 

This type of attitude is most unfortunate, but sadly it is all to common. Similar to the Chief, I have almost 40 years of attending weekly drills, challenging my Chief Officer to make them as realistic as possible. Why - because we react in an emergency similar to how we train.

 

The crew are training hard, with many of them waking up from time off-shift, to ensure they are prepared to save the passengers in an emergency. Yes, back in the days as a Deck Officer working 12-4, I got to bed after watch at 04:00 and was up again about 9'ish for drills. No point going back to bed after the drill and debrief, as I was back on the Bridge  before Noon. Surely it isn't too much of an imposition for you to attend, as in addition to a regulatory requirement, I consider it a common courtesy and a necessary component of managing my own safety.

 

Even when travelling on my old ship, I still listen to the announcement and I wrote the entire company's emergency procedures.

[Heidi13]

7 minutes ago, Aquahound said:

 

For the time being, they're asking drive-on passengers to remain in their vehicles.  Not sure how long they plan to keep that in place though.  

 

 

A few years ago, I rode the Kennicott out of Bellingham enroute Juneau.  It was a very informal drill.  Like the WSFs, it was announced over the PA, but there was no muster.  However, they did have crew demonstrating the donning of life jackets in the main passenger area, and down on the car deck.  

 Thanks, that is similar to what we did on the Queen of the North from Tsawwassen to Prince Rupert. We used to pass the Alaska ships fairly often.

[SmoothFlying]

13 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

Then, of course, there are other angles — try standing on deck at Manhattan Cruise Terminal on a 10 degree day in January with a 35 mph wind whistling down the ice floe filled Hudson — while waiting for some no-shows to be identified.

OMG !! 😠 That DEFINITLY would make a deck officer mutter (to hisself, of course) 'Where are this people !!' And of course I'm being very delicate, language-wise.🙂

 

Mac

[sverigecruiser]

 

It was a few years since I went on one but I don't think that there are any drills on the big ferries between Sweden and Finland. It's often overnight, 15 hours and in bad weather. If drills aren't needed on thoose ships I don't understand why they are so important on real cruiseships. Can anyone explain it for me?

[euro cruiser]

1 hour ago, pris993 said:

I don't worry much about what others do.  TV video is good enough for me.  After 60+ cruises I could conduct the safety drill. 

 

In an actual emergency, when the adrenaline is pumping and crowds of people, some of them impaired, are pushing, shoving, crying, etc., everything changes.  I've probably done hundreds of fire drills in various buildings throughout my life but when I was in an actual fire all bets were off ... you try staying down low and calmly exiting while a few dozen frightened people are climbing up your back (literally) trying to get out ahead of you.

[gymbomb]

On 5/23/2020 at 11:05 AM, Roz said:

Where are these indoor muster stations?  I've only had outdoor stations on HAL and Carnival.  The one indoor station was on Princess.  

 

All of my NCL cruises and both of my Princess cruises had indoor muster stations. The only time I've mustered outdoors was on Royal Caribbean about 15 years ago.

[SmoothFlying]

4 minutes ago, euro cruiser said:

 

In an actual emergency, when the adrenaline is pumping and crowds of people, some of them impaired, are pushing, shoving, crying, etc., everything changes.  I've probably done hundreds of fire drills in various buildings throughout my life but when I was in an actual fire all bets were off ... you try staying down low and calmly exiting while a few dozen frightened people are climbing up your back (literally) trying to get out ahead of you.

I agree completely. Which is why I've often wondered HOW the powers-to-be (law passing political-types) pass laws that are almost impossibel too enact in real ife situations. The event I refer to is the ADA rule that in case of a airline crash (which can be firery disaster) landing the flight attendants WILL help any disabled passenger after those able to exit the plane on thir own. Soo let me understand how this is going to work.. You have 200+ passengers, screaming, clawing to exit over anybody or thing to get out and 5 or 6 passengers who cannot even stand up and yet,  with the cabin on fire these (usually 5 or 6) poor flight attendants are too then go back AFTER the plane is empty and help those poor souls exit the aircraft ?  In a perfect world enough capable passengers would help their disabled comrades BUT in a fire, as you said, 'ALL bets are off' sad to say.

 

Mac