Rethinking Muster Drills

[rkacruiser]

8 hours ago, KnowTheScore said:

Everyone stays in their cabin until specifically called out and once they return from their drills they again stay in the cabin until the entire ship's compliment have been drilled.  

 

Your plan is quite thoughtful, but there is one fundamental flaw that I detect.

 

Holland America Line in recent years has "required" guests to return to their cabin once the drill begins.  Such a "requirement" is ignored by a significant percentage of guests.  When I get to my muster station when I am instructed to do so, there are dozens of my potential future lifeboat friends who were there much earlier than I.  People don't do what people are "told to do" unless they are MADE to do so.  

 

When HAL first adopted there muster drill policy, I went "early" as I normally did during my first muster drill under the new plan.  The Lifeboat Commander at my station told me in no uncertain terms to return to my cabin until I was told to leave.  During subsequent cruises, I am among the last to arrive at my muster station because, I think, I am obeying the protocol.  (A positive spin on this would be:  since I am in one of the first front lines, maybe I would be among those who first enter a lifeboat?  Or, is it still, women and children first?) 

[lenquixote66]

6 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

 

Your plan is quite thoughtful, but there is one fundamental flaw that I detect.

 

Holland America Line in recent years has "required" guests to return to their cabin once the drill begins.  Such a "requirement" is ignored by a significant percentage of guests.  When I get to my muster station when I am instructed to do so, there are dozens of my potential future lifeboat friends who were there much earlier than I.  People don't do what people are "told to do" unless they are MADE to do so.  

 

When HAL first adopted there muster drill policy, I went "early" as I normally did during my first muster drill under the new plan.  The Lifeboat Commander at my station told me in no uncertain terms to return to my cabin until I was told to leave.  During subsequent cruises, I am among the last to arrive at my muster station because, I think, I am obeying the protocol.  (A positive spin on this would be:  since I am in one of the first front lines, maybe I would be among those who first enter a lifeboat?  Or, is it still, women and children first?) 

Women,children and service animals first.

[GUT2407]

On 5/24/2020 at 1:05 AM, Roz said:

Where are these indoor muster stations?  I've only had outdoor stations on HAL and Carnival.  The one indoor station was on Princess.  

I am yet to have an out door drill, across a number of lines, so I guess it comes down to who you cruise with.

 

[KnowTheScore]

4 hours ago, ATC cruiser said:

Just out of curiosity,  how many of these batches do you think it would take to get through all the passengers? 

 

Working on say 8 separate muster areas with 100 pax per area so 800 pax in each batch

(N.B. Suggesting 100 on the basis of 50 separated 2m distanced spots mostly populated by couples)

 

For a ship of 1800 pax that's about 2 - 3  batches

 

Figure on 10mins for people to get from cabin to muster station.

10 mins there

5 mins to get to theatre

10 mins there

 

Probably get through that in about 2 hours

[KnowTheScore]

1 hour ago, rkacruiser said:

 

Your plan is quite thoughtful, but there is one fundamental flaw that I detect.

 

Holland America Line in recent years has "required" guests to return to their cabin once the drill begins.  Such a "requirement" is ignored by a significant percentage of guests.  When I get to my muster station when I am instructed to do so, there are dozens of my potential future lifeboat friends who were there much earlier than I.  People don't do what people are "told to do" unless they are MADE to do so.  

 

The old will have nothing to do with the new in the COVID-19 cruising world

 

The Captain will instruct passengers in strict terms.  Any dissenters will be warned and put off the ship if they refuse to comply.

I can't honestly see people mucking about in this new environment.

 

 

 

[Heidi13]

4 hours ago, KnowTheScore said:

 

Working on say 8 separate muster areas with 100 pax per area so 800 pax in each batch

(N.B. Suggesting 100 on the basis of 50 separated 2m distanced spots mostly populated by couples)

 

For a ship of 1800 pax that's about 2 - 3  batches

 

Figure on 10mins for people to get from cabin to muster station.

10 mins there

5 mins to get to theatre

10 mins there

 

Probably get through that in about 2 hours

 

In 40 years at sea, I have never been on a ship with 8 Assembly Stations. Some of the Behemoths of the Seas may have that many, but they have > 6,000 pax. Our last cruise with 930 pax had only 2 Assembly Stations.

 

Ships of 1,800 pax probably have 3 or possibly 4 Assembly Stations. You also cannot arbitrarily add Assembly Stations, as they must meet standards for structural fire protection, have IMO signage, have approved exits to the Evacuation Equipment and are approved by Flag/Class for a max number of pax, etc. 

 

You also have much greater faith in pax compliance than my experience. I note in BC gatherings of > 50 people are banned, but it didn't stop any of the large and recent protests. In reality, the crew of the ships will be about as effective as the local Police in controlling the event.

[nosapphire]

Reading the posts on here makes it pretty clear why a lifeboat drill has to be carried out.

Whenever I stay on a ship, the first thing I do is read the sign on the back of the cabin door that shows where my muster station is and the two ways (primary and secondary) to get there. 

Whenever I stay in a hotel, the first thing I do is read the sign on the back of the door showing where the fire escapes are, and then (in the absence of a drill) I go and find them.

When I am on a plane, I look to see where the nearest exit is, read the safety card, check that the lifejackets are where I expect them to be. And then I watch the safety demonstration.

Is all the above boring? yes. Do I get laughed at? yes.

But the only reason people get off ships, out of planes, and out of buildings in a real emergency is because there are enough people (crew, staff, and a few guests) who know exactly what to do, and do it.

 

 I remember working in a high rise office some years ago, when I complained that the fire exit door should have a slam-bar, not a green button, for emergency exit. Bosses and all my colleagues laughed. Button is perfectly obvious, they said.

Come an unexpected fire alarm and the smell of smoke, those who laughed were screaming that they could not open the door - I was the one who had to climb over to push the green button to let them out.

Thinking you know all about what to do, and remembering it in an emergency are two different things.

So stop treating it as an inconvenience to your holiday, and pay attention.

 

[Roger88]

I dont think much will change in this matter. In any case there will be new policies applied and there will be new regulations in terms of muster drills anyway. Moreover, I think they will make new schedules for passangers boarding the ship cause they will have to keep them all in the distance of 1.5 meters from each other. Will live and see 

[rkacruiser]

On 6/8/2020 at 8:55 PM, KnowTheScore said:

The old will have nothing to do with the new in the COVID-19 cruising world

 

 

I am offended by this comment,

[cruisemom42]

49 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

 

I am offended by this comment,

 

I don't believe the poster was referring to people but to the "old" way of doing things...

[rkacruiser]

On 6/8/2020 at 8:55 PM, KnowTheScore said:

 

The old will have nothing to do with the new in the COVID-19 cruising world

 

The Captain will instruct passengers in strict terms.  Any dissenters will be warned and put off the ship if they refuse to comply.

I can't honestly see people mucking about in this new environment.

 

 

 

 

 

21 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

I don't believe the poster was referring to people but to the "old" way of doing things...

 

I did not read that post as referring to the age of a cruise guest.  

 

The previous poster stated that he could could not see "people mucking about in this new environment".  There have been scant reliable reports of guests being thrown off a cruse ship because they have not reported for a muster drill.  The Captain/CD on the PA always "issue that threat" before the Drill begins.  It's difficult for me to believe, even with what is going to probably be a "new day" in a cruising experience for a guest, that a Security Officer is going to locate and escort that guest to the gangway before the ship sails.  

[GUT2407]

2 hours ago, rkacruiser said:

 

 

 

I did not read that post as referring to the age of a cruise guest.  

 

The previous poster stated that he could could not see "people mucking about in this new environment".  There have been scant reliable reports of guests being thrown off a cruse ship because they have not reported for a muster drill.  The Captain/CD on the PA always "issue that threat" before the Drill begins.  It's difficult for me to believe, even with what is going to probably be a "new day" in a cruising experience for a guest, that a Security Officer is going to locate and escort that guest to the gangway before the ship sails.  

I saw a group get booted, not for missing drill but their behaviour during drill.

[ontheweb]

8 hours ago, GUT2407 said:

I saw a group get booted, not for missing drill but their behaviour during drill.

That must have been a sight to behold. If you know, what exactly were they doing?

[nosapphire]

Normally, when the drill starts, anyone still wandering around gets told to go to the drill, and if people are missing, crew go to their cabin and fetch them.

Before the days of having cards swiped, I always found it curious to see how many people did not know which was their muster station (I am not talking about needing to be directed by crew, I am talking about people who have no idea what number they are) and even more curious to see how many people did not know what their cabin number was. Was not unusual for crew to ask to see the cabin key after the second wrong guess. And yes, the passenger was at the wrong place.

The most efficient drills are the ones where the crew are confident enough to tell the passengers to BE QUIET AND LISTEN.

[GUT2407]

10 hours ago, ontheweb said:

That must have been a sight to behold. If you know, what exactly were they doing?

Just yelling out and being disruptive during muster, it was a two night cruise and I guess they decided they were going to give the drinks package a fair old workout. I only knew as at the end I tend to leave it till the room has cleared, so getting out in my wheelchair is less of a problem, and one of the officers came and asked us to leave as the Captain had decided he didn’t want that group on the ship, as we headed to the lifts about 20 security guys were arriving, and a short while later Mrs Gut and I were heading down to the purser’s desk, as my card had stopped working, and they were disembarking.

 

there were a few groups that I suspect the captain may have wished he had left behind by the time we got back, there were lots of buck and hen groups and birthday groups all giving their drink package a solid workout, and some rather “interesting” behaviour.

[rkacruiser]

9 hours ago, nosapphire said:

The most efficient drills are the ones where the crew are confident enough to tell the passengers to BE QUIET AND LISTEN.

 

100% agree!  Lifeboat Commanders at those stations need to be confident enough in their authority to assume command during the Drill just in case that authority needs to be required during a "real event".  The Junior Officers wandering around during the Drills also need to be more proactive if such actions are required.  They seem to be "observers" reporting, I suppose, to the Bridge.  But, having a Deck Officer to tell some guests to "SHUT UP!" during the drill would have a positive impact on all at that Muster Station. 

[nosapphire]

6 hours ago, rkacruiser said:

 

100% agree!  Lifeboat Commanders at those stations need to be confident enough in their authority to assume command during the Drill just in case that authority needs to be required during a "real event".  The Junior Officers wandering around during the Drills also need to be more proactive if such actions are required.  They seem to be "observers" reporting, I suppose, to the Bridge.  But, having a Deck Officer to tell some guests to "SHUT UP!" during the drill would have a positive impact on all at that Muster Station. 

One time on a long cruise with lots of sea days there was a major crew drill on a sunny sea day, and captain invited any passengers who wished to join in. A lot of us did, and dutifully mustered on deck by our respective lifeboats (which at that time was our designated muster point). As we waited, a large group at our point and the adjacent point were having a very jolly time together, and it was getting very difficult for those of us still taking things seriously to hear what was going on.

At that point, the Captain himself was walking the ship observing the drill, and boy, did he tear those passengers off a strip. It was not just as case of being told to be quiet, it was also a case of why they had to be quiet - and he was not being diplomatic about it either. He then tore into the crew for not controlling the passengers, and again, why they had to control the passengers.

At the end of that lecture, the passengers along entire side of that ship knew exactly how important a lifeboat drill was.

 

[ontheweb]

14 hours ago, GUT2407 said:

Just yelling out and being disruptive during muster, it was a two night cruise and I guess they decided they were going to give the drinks package a fair old workout. I only knew as at the end I tend to leave it till the room has cleared, so getting out in my wheelchair is less of a problem, and one of the officers came and asked us to leave as the Captain had decided he didn’t want that group on the ship, as we headed to the lifts about 20 security guys were arriving, and a short while later Mrs Gut and I were heading down to the purser’s desk, as my card had stopped working, and they were disembarking.

 

there were a few groups that I suspect the captain may have wished he had left behind by the time we got back, there were lots of buck and hen groups and birthday groups all giving their drink package a solid workout, and some rather “interesting” behaviour.

I wonder how much that behavior is the norm on one or two day "drinking" cruises.

[ontheweb]

5 hours ago, nosapphire said:

One time on a long cruise with lots of sea days there was a major crew drill on a sunny sea day, and captain invited any passengers who wished to join in. A lot of us did, and dutifully mustered on deck by our respective lifeboats (which at that time was our designated muster point). As we waited, a large group at our point and the adjacent point were having a very jolly time together, and it was getting very difficult for those of us still taking things seriously to hear what was going on.

At that point, the Captain himself was walking the ship observing the drill, and boy, did he tear those passengers off a strip. It was not just as case of being told to be quiet, it was also a case of why they had to be quiet - and he was not being diplomatic about it either. He then tore into the crew for not controlling the passengers, and again, why they had to control the passengers.

At the end of that lecture, the passengers along entire side of that ship knew exactly how important a lifeboat drill was.

 

It seems odd to me that passengers who would volunteer for that drill would misbehave. Could it be that they were told to act that way by the Captain to see how the crew would react. They would of course have to be told that the Captain would also dress them down, but not to take it seriously as it was all part of the drill?

[nosapphire]

26 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

It seems odd to me that passengers who would volunteer for that drill would misbehave. Could it be that they were told to act that way by the Captain to see how the crew would react. They would of course have to be told that the Captain would also dress them down, but not to take it seriously as it was all part of the drill?

 

Not a chance. The passengers were not actually misbehaving, they were just laughing and chatting and neither listening nor taking the drill seriously - pretty much how many behave during the embarkation muster drill.

There was certainly nothing pre-arranged about that bit of education. I could see by the faces what a shock it was to both passengers and crew.

They were extremely subdued not just during the rest of the drill, but even when it was over and they could leave.

Rest of the drill was a lot better, though. Passengers quiet and crew able to do their job.

 

 

 

 

 

[Heidi13]

8 hours ago, nosapphire said:

One time on a long cruise with lots of sea days there was a major crew drill on a sunny sea day, and captain invited any passengers who wished to join in. A lot of us did, and dutifully mustered on deck by our respective lifeboats (which at that time was our designated muster point). As we waited, a large group at our point and the adjacent point were having a very jolly time together, and it was getting very difficult for those of us still taking things seriously to hear what was going on.

At that point, the Captain himself was walking the ship observing the drill, and boy, did he tear those passengers off a strip. It was not just as case of being told to be quiet, it was also a case of why they had to be quiet - and he was not being diplomatic about it either. He then tore into the crew for not controlling the passengers, and again, why they had to control the passengers.

At the end of that lecture, the passengers along entire side of that ship knew exactly how important a lifeboat drill was.

 

 

Ah!! the good old days.

 

In current times somebody would haul out a cell phone and record the Captain's rebuke, but not the prior actions that necessitated the rebuke. They would probably demand the Captain be fired and demand compensation. 😁😁😁

[ontheweb]

3 hours ago, nosapphire said:

 

Not a chance. The passengers were not actually misbehaving, they were just laughing and chatting and neither listening nor taking the drill seriously - pretty much how many behave during the embarkation muster drill.

There was certainly nothing pre-arranged about that bit of education. I could see by the faces what a shock it was to both passengers and crew.

They were extremely subdued not just during the rest of the drill, but even when it was over and they could leave.

Rest of the drill was a lot better, though. Passengers quiet and crew able to do their job.

 

 

 

 

 

OK, you were there so I believe you. But, it just seems odd to me that the type of passengers who would volunteer for this activity would not take it seriously. That's why I came up with the scenario that the captain had set it up as a drill to see how the crew would react to some passengers not taking it seriously.

[MBP&O2/O]

Someone at one of my drills rebuked someone and told them to”listen with their ears .... not their mouth ...as they might just learn something”
Remember, if it comes to the real deal, you will have to behave yourself and listen to what is being said ... including the “choice” language 🤭
Circumstances may be different to the drill.
I can assure you that the “real deal” is not pleasant and being in a small boat in a big rough sea is an experience to be missed[emoji57]

[GUT2407]

6 hours ago, ontheweb said:

I wonder how much that behavior is the norm on one or two day "drinking" cruises.

I suspect it would vary b line to a degree, but they aren’t frequently referred to as “booze cruises” for no reason.

[CRUISEWITHH]

I have been cruising since 1959 and have been on over 75 cruises, but I always sit quietly and patiently during each Muster Drill because.......I have been in two situations where I was called to immediately go to my muster station due to an emergency.  We did not have to abandon ship but on one cruise we stood out on the deck for 2 hours while they put out a fire.  It was scary but I knew where my muster station was and was prepared with my life jacket and knew how to put it on. 

 

It's the same with long time cruisers and new cruisers, they think it won't happen to them so they do not pay attention to the drill.