Covid-19 Testing

[OceanBlueWaters]

Does anyone consider how our youth will get back to school before Cruise Lines open up? 

 

What about "Kids Clubs" on Cruise Ships?  Does anyone have the guidelines how they will operate?  Nope.  They don't even have a plan to protect adults and repatriate their workers.  Not sure I will trust Cruise Lines anytime soon.  JMO 🙂

[Beach Life 1]

1 hour ago, pcakes122 said:

Exactly. This is what I'm saying!!  It boggles my mind that people do not want to wear masks.  If you read through the mask discussion on this forum, you are going to see that MANY people do not think they are necessary,  And from watching the news today I can see that many people in the general population feel the same way.

It boggles my mind, that in March, when  this virus was all about us,  that some people still went on cruises.

 

[BirdTravels]

I assume folks understand that a COVID test indicates if a person is currently infected and actively shedding the virus at the moment the test is taken. 
 

The person could be infected, but not actively shedding and would test negative. Then be positive in a few days. 
 

Or, a person could get to close to someone with the virus while waiting for a test, or at a Memorial Day party, and they could have an active case the next week. 

 

There are still 10’s of thousands of new cases each day in the United States. The rate of infection in some parts of the US remains at epidemic levels. 
 

The purpose of testing is to give  the officials metrics on the number of active cases and the potential for community spread.  They use the data to determine how safe it is to “open” certain things. 
 

Impacts to cruising? While there is a high rate of infection, there is a high probability of brining the virus aboard (and becoming symptomatic during the cruise). As stated above, testing passengers only means that they are not infected at the instant the test is taken. Not useful if you were tested last months for a cruise next month. It would have some value if done at the terminal prior to boarding with some rapid test. It would not guarantee that someone does not bring it aboard and get sick during the cruise. 

[npcl]

3 hours ago, Paul Bogle said:

According to the CDC as of May 22, total tests in the USA are over 13 million. The CDC doesn't readily identify these as serology tests or total test but let's assume these are serology tests alone. If these reflect one person getting one test once (which it doesn't because first responders need to be regular tested) that amounts to 4% of the US population.

 

We have a very long way to go to get to a testing and tracing regimen that will allow at-risk people to resume any sort of normal life.

If you look at South Korea, which is one of the better examples of a country being very proactive in keeping cases counts low.  Yet  their testing is only about 1/3 of the US per 1 million population.  Early in the outbreak they had the most cases anywhere outside of China.  Yet they stopped it quickly.

 

The reason is testing without a specific plan or purpose is pretty useless. A test only tells what ones status is at the moment the test is taken, does not tell their status the next day, next week, etc. With the number of false negatives a single test might not even successfully confirm that someone is infection free, only that there is not enough virus in the sample to generate a positive result.

 

The key is speed of test access/results coupled with an effective program of contact tracing. In South Korea when someone is showing symptoms they can get access to a test rapidly, they get the test results back within a couple of hours, and if positive anyone they have come in contact with is identified and notified within 24 hours. There is good compliance with  self quarantining when notified, as well as notification to authorities when symptoms occur.

 

As they put it TEST, TRACE, ISOLATE

 

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/05/whats-south-koreas-secret/611215/

 

The fact that they is near universal mask wearing in public certainly doesn't hurt either.

 

They never had a lock down.  They did not shutdown most of their economy. They set up the processes (courtesy or their experiences with SAR and MERS and executed.  The over all number of test are low, because of the speed and because the population support the process. 

 

 

Edited May 24, 2020 by npcl

[pcakes122]

2 hours ago, jezabel80 said:

It boggles my mind, that in March, when  this virus was all about us,  that some people still went on cruises.

 

I know, read my past posts!!! I was a complete idiot and I've actually said that more than once in these forums. I thought just because the cruise lines were operating that it was safe. Our cruise had temperature screening and heightened sanitation and no self-serve buffet (even though I didn't go to the buffet.)

 

I was just like so many people here who believed that it just couldn't or wouldn't happen to me. That is why I keep telling people over and over and over and over that just because cruises will resume doesn't mean it's safe. Unfortunately, people will have to find out for themselves just like I did.

 

I was lucky enough to survive, but not everyone will be.

[PortFees45]

1 hour ago, npcl said:

They never had a lock down.  They did not shutdown most of their economy. They set up the processes (courtesy or their experiences with SAR and MERS and executed.  The over all number of test are low, because of the speed and because the population support the process. 

South Korea set the global standard on how to effectively combat this virus. 

 

I always love it when people say "America is the best country in the world!" Really? 

[PortFees45]

9 minutes ago, pcakes122 said:

I know, read my past posts!!! I was a complete idiot and I've actually said that more than once in these forums.

I mean this sincerely...it's a sign of high moral character and integrity for someone to admit they're wrong like that. It's takes strength, and it's indicative of a strong intellect. I commend you for it, and I appreciate the posts you've made on these boards trying to reach the people who still think as you did. 

Edited May 24, 2020 by PortFees45

[seaman11]

11 minutes ago, pcakes122 said:

I know, read my past posts!!! I was a complete idiot and I've actually said that more than once in these forums. I thought just because the cruise lines were operating that it was safe. Our cruise had temperature screening and heightened sanitation and no self-serve buffet (even though I didn't go to the buffet.)

 

I was just like so many people here who believed that it just couldn't or wouldn't happen to me. That is why I keep telling people over and over and over and over that just because cruises will resume doesn't mean it's safe. Unfortunately, people will have to find out for themselves just like I did.

 

I was lucky enough to survive, but not everyone will be.

It wasnt entirely your fault, we were lied to of the severity of this virus.  Also we don't you caught it on board or before that. 

[pcakes122]

12 minutes ago, seaman11 said:

It wasnt entirely your fault, we were lied to of the severity of this virus.  Also we don't you caught it on board or before that. 

No matter where I contracted it I HAD it onboard the Bliss so I definitely infected others who were unsuspecting. Hopefully they are all well - I think about them often.

 

[mking8288]

30 minutes ago, npcl said:

... < snipped > 

As they put it TEST, TRACE, ISOLATE ... 

The fact that they is near universal mask wearing in public certainly doesn't hurt either ... They never had a lock down.  They did not shutdown most of their economy. They set up the processes (courtesy or their experiences with SAR and MERS and executed.  The over all number of test are low, because of the speed and because the population support the process. 

 

All these ... Plus, they have access to adequate PPE (full sets and then some) and look after their healthcare and frontline workforce well, plus sufficient facilities to care for the infected.  Other countries ignored the early warning signs.  SARS, H1N1 and Ebola outbreaks, etc. were not tabletop drills - still got my planning guides, templates & reference manuals (and, old / "expired" N95 masks) 

 

Singapore and Hong Kong used similar measures in place and they are just about ready to gradually ease out of their second wave, gradually loosening up.  As a matter of fact, virtually all the developing countries in Asia adopted strict protocols and best practices to "block" the infections, especially community infections - including the use of A.I. and smartphone/cellular technologies.  Some of them shut down their borders entirely and put returning nationals on mandatory 14+ days of quaratine/isolation ... and, still do.  

 

Measures that "we" in the Americas would consider intrusive on privacy and freedom, yada yada ... call to arms to defend by exercising our First and Second Amendments, etc.  Adults are doing the complaining while the children just coped with cabin fever ! 

 

These choices made carry price tags and trade-of, including human tolls - just as what some warned of, predictive & afraid of ... going to shatter the 100,000 milestone before the end of this month, not this August.  Whether we are going to hit 150,000 (and higher) in US death toll by July or August, time will tell.  I want to be proven wrong and cruising is our/my passion.  

 

The nation struggled with the very simple, basic acts to maintain social distance, put on a mask when outside, washing hands often as appropriate (hand sanitizers are still in shortage) are part of the universal precaution measures that some simply choose to hear but ignore.  Reliable & free antibody and virus testing can only save some, leaving others behind, perhaps for the promised warp speed delivery of a vaccine.  

 

This weekend, I am sad to learn that for DW's extended F&F circles, we lost two on the battlefield despite best efforts at the time while a third recovered, and 2 others waiting to get their antibody testing done soon.  Testing is more than about making up those numbers on the charts and graphs on the curves ... 

[pcakes122]

1 minute ago, mking8288 said:

This weekend, I am sad to learn that for DW's extended F&F circles, we lost two on the battlefield despite best efforts at the time while a third recovered, and 2 others waiting to get their antibody testing done soon.  Testing is more than about making up those numbers on the charts and graphs on the curves ... 

Thank you so much for acknowledging that the numbers represent actual people. I am so sorry to hear about those you know that have been lost or suffered. 😥 

[chipmaster]

57 minutes ago, PortFees45 said:

South Korea set the global standard on how to effectively combat this virus. 

 

I always love it when people say "America is the best country in the world!" Really? 

 

Taiwan actually IMHO had a superior response

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/09/world/asia/taiwan-vice-president-coronavirus.html

 

 

 

[Beach Life 1]

1 hour ago, pcakes122 said:

I know, read my past posts!!! I was a complete idiot and I've actually said that more than once in these forums. I thought just because the cruise lines were operating that it was safe. Our cruise had temperature screening and heightened sanitation and no self-serve buffet (even though I didn't go to the buffet.)

 

I was just like so many people here who believed that it just couldn't or wouldn't happen to me. That is why I keep telling people over and over and over and over that just because cruises will resume doesn't mean it's safe. Unfortunately, people will have to find out for themselves just like I did.

 

I was lucky enough to survive, but not everyone will be.

It's really admirable of  you to come on here and admit that you feel you made a mistake.  There are a lot of people that would not have been so honest.  I'm afraid, though, there's still some people that would go on a cruise today if there was a sailing, because they don't think anything can happen to them (or worse yet, infect other people).  Just  know, that if at least one person that has read your posts made the decision to think twice about their next cruise, or social distancing in their daily lives,  has  listened to what you said, you have done a great thing!  Glad you're feeling better. 

[chipmaster]

3 hours ago, OceanBlueWaters said:

Does anyone consider how our youth will get back to school before Cruise Lines open up? 

 

 

This is a challenging moral and social question.

 

The evidence suggest kids are very low risk, but seems to be a lot of press in the US about some strange illness among here, not a surprise something not seen in Far East or Europe as US has likely the highest case of obesity, allergies and diabetes among children, why would it be a surprise when a new bug comes it hits them harder.

 

Then kids are low risk, need the social as well as educational, those are huge benefits to them and society, what is the cost of them being spreaders taking it back to others homes ?   

 

I can't answer for others,, but I think schools should open with aggressive screening for temperature, cough etc.  and mandatory masks and changes in protocol for recess, meals and classroom distancing.  

 

Schools are open in the Far East and the disease hasn't exploded, oh yeah those countries wear mask, hmmm, LOL

[RiotAct]

6 hours ago, jezabel80 said:

It boggles my mind, that in March, when  this virus was all about us,  that some people still went on cruises.

 

Captain Hindsight, in the house!!!

[janerd]

4 hours ago, pcakes122 said:

No matter where I contracted it I HAD it onboard the Bliss so I definitely infected others who were unsuspecting. Hopefully they are all well - I think about them often.

 

This is exactly why I wear a mask when I have to go anywhere. You have empathy which from reading some of the other treads on these boards is in short supply. Hats off to you.

[pmd98052]

7 hours ago, chipmaster said:

The evidence suggest kids are very low risk, but seems to be a lot of press in the US about some strange illness among here

 

Not just USA -These kid vairants of COVID19 were first detected in London.

[Beach Life 1]

7 hours ago, RiotAct said:

Captain Hindsight, in the house!!!

How is this statement Hindsight?   I posted the same question in March and asked why?  Why are people still cruising?   The discussions ranged from..... I don't think this is serious yet, I don't want to lose money, I don't think this is real, I'll wash my hands more, and on and on,   to someone actually  saying "I don't give a ..... about anyone else.  I'm going on vacation"    It was meant to be a discussion/opinion  as to what everyone thought about this virus and cruising.    My opinion, whether right or wrong,  was that I thought it was selfish and foolish  for people to insist on going on  a cruise.  Again, that was  my opinion, and some didn't like it.  It  got so nasty,  the mods deleted the post.  

[sanger727]

15 hours ago, npcl said:

If you look at South Korea, which is one of the better examples of a country being very proactive in keeping cases counts low.  Yet  their testing is only about 1/3 of the US per 1 million population.  Early in the outbreak they had the most cases anywhere outside of China.  Yet they stopped it quickly.

 

The reason is testing without a specific plan or purpose is pretty useless. A test only tells what ones status is at the moment the test is taken, does not tell their status the next day, next week, etc. With the number of false negatives a single test might not even successfully confirm that someone is infection free, only that there is not enough virus in the sample to generate a positive result.

 

The key is speed of test access/results coupled with an effective program of contact tracing. In South Korea when someone is showing symptoms they can get access to a test rapidly, they get the test results back within a couple of hours, and if positive anyone they have come in contact with is identified and notified within 24 hours. There is good compliance with  self quarantining when notified, as well as notification to authorities when symptoms occur.

 

As they put it TEST, TRACE, ISOLATE

 

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/05/whats-south-koreas-secret/611215/

 

The fact that they is near universal mask wearing in public certainly doesn't hurt either.

 

They never had a lock down.  They did not shutdown most of their economy. They set up the processes (courtesy or their experiences with SAR and MERS and executed.  The over all number of test are low, because of the speed and because the population support the process. 

 

 

 

this. I don't see much point in getting a COVID prior to venturing out in public because the meaningfullness of the results is very short lived and we will never have the facilities for everyone to get their daily covid test. Even if we get a readily available instant test, I don't think they will be testing every cruiser before they board. It will be more like the flu where you only get tested when you display symptoms. 

 

But when COVID first started making the news here and everyone was complaining about how hard it was to get a test, there were a handful of public interest news stories where someone was interviewed talking about how they had had COVID symptoms but couldn't get a test so didn't know if they should isolate or not and were out in the public potentially spreading the disease. I couldn't believe this attitude. I'm pretty sure that once we had a grasp of what COVID was and how contagious it is, every doctor's advice if you called them with COVID symptoms was to self isolate. I think alot of people took the wrong attitude and didn't feel like they needed to self isolate unless they had a positive test - which many did not get tested and if they did it took 5-7 days to get the results back. When they should have had upper respiratory symptoms, called their doctor, scheduled a test if it was appropriate, and self isolated until they had a negative result. 

Edited May 25, 2020 by sanger727

[hftmrock]

18 hours ago, jezabel80 said:

It boggles my mind, that in March, when  this virus was all about us,  that some people still went on cruises.

 

if you look at the timeline, There was less than 100 cases (and I don't know if any deaths) in the USA in early March and by March 13, All cruises stopped. So why would it boggle your mind if there was less than 100 cases in the USA , people went on cruises.

 

I went on a cruise on March 9 - 13. on March 9th, there was barely any cases in the USA.

 

[boatseller]

20 hours ago, pcakes122 said:

We all realize (I hope) that cruising cannot resume until we can stop or manage the spread the Covid-19 virus.

Look, I hate to break the news, but there is no way to stop sc2 and there is already well known guidance in place to manage the spread.  I realize this and the officials/agencies managing the situation also realize this.

 

You can make the exact same statement about:

Beaches: Opening

Restaurants: Opening

Gyms/Salons: Opening

Theme Parks: Opening**

Cruising: Opening in August because by then, there will be no reasonable justification to keep it closed when everything else is open.

 

Warning at Universal CityWalk: Exposure to COVID-19 is an inherent risk in any public location where people are present; we cannot guarantee you will not be exposed during your visit.

 

Warning at Disney Springs:  An inherent risk of exposure to COVID-19 exists in any public place where people are present. COVID-19 is an extremely contagious disease that can lead to severe illness and death. According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, senior citizens and Guests with underlying medical conditions are especially vulnerable.  By visiting Disney Springs you voluntarily assume all risks related to exposure to COVID-19.

 

Similar or even scarier warnings will be all over the check-in process and in the terminal specifically to dissuade high risk persons from entering/boarding.  They will do this to put the burden on the traveler for voluntarily choosing to enter/sail and acknowledging the risks.  No business will ever require any test result because it's too much liability.

 

I fully expect the cruise lines to cut/paste all the mitigation guidelines from Universal/Disney/SeaWorld, temperature checks, face coverings, social distancing, single use touchables, cleaning, etc.  These will have already been approved by the State.  For reasons, the State of Florida will have primacy over the start of cruising, not the CDC.

 

As for face coverings, the thread I read through was dominated by two opinions: "I'll follow whatever rules there are." or "I'll wait until face coverings are not required."  Both perfectly reasonable.  I don't recall anyone saying they would willfully not comply with the prevailing guidance.

 

**Some additional perspective here.  A lot of people in the theme park community were a bit (pleasantly) surprised Universal Orlando got approval to open June 5, all three parks.  Personally, I think Disney was caught a bit off guard and are moving their plans up as quickly as possible.  And yes, I consider Volcano Bay a theme park, it's flippin' amazing.

[Beach Life 1]

38 minutes ago, hftmrock said:

if you look at the timeline, There was less than 100 cases (and I don't know if any deaths) in the USA in early March and by March 13, All cruises stopped. So why would it boggle your mind if there was less than 100 cases in the USA , people went on cruises.

  I think your figures are way off..    Also, not everyone on a cruise ship is from the USA      

Read Below:

 

Welcome to the Contagion Live News Network. I’m Grant Gallagher and this is the COVID-19 update for Monday, March 9, 2020.
 
The US State Department is advising Americans, particularly those with underlying health conditions, not to travel by cruise ship. The CDC has noted increased risk of infection with COVID-19 in cruise ship environments. Several countries have denied port entry rights to ships and prevented passengers from disembarking.

US health officials continue to monitor passengers from the Grand Princess cruise ship, which was waiting for approval to dock off the coast of California since Thursday. At least 21 people on the ship have been confirmed to have contracted the virus, with only some on board tested. American passengers will be quarantined at various military bases for 14 days. The process of disembarking all 2,421 passengers and sending the crew back to sea is expected to take 2 to 3 days.
 
Cases continued to be confirmed across the United States over the weekend, bringing the total to 566 confirmed cases across 34 states as of Monday morning. Six states have declared a state of emergency. Twenty two deaths have been reported nationwide.
 
The coronavirus control efforts continue abroad as well, with Italy quarantining cities in the northern region of the country just days after suspending school activities nationwide. More than 7,300 cases of COVID-19 have been confirmed in Italy.
 
South Korea has reported around 7500 cases, and on Sunday announced 179 new cases. This is the lowest 1-day total for the country in about 2 weeks. Public health officials remain cautiously optimistic about the slowdown.
 
For more information on COVID-19, visit ContagionLive.com. To track the spread of coronavirus in the United States and abroad, be sure to use the Contagion Outbreak Monitor.

 

https://www.contagionlive.com/news/contagion-live-news-network-coronavirus-updates-for-march-9-2020

[ray98]

2 hours ago, jezabel80 said:

  I think your figures are way off..    Also, not everyone on a cruise ship is from the USA      

Read Below:

 

Welcome to the Contagion Live News Network. I’m Grant Gallagher and this is the COVID-19 update for Monday, March 9, 2020.
 
The US State Department is advising Americans, particularly those with underlying health conditions, not to travel by cruise ship. The CDC has noted increased risk of infection with COVID-19 in cruise ship environments. Several countries have denied port entry rights to ships and prevented passengers from disembarking.

US health officials continue to monitor passengers from the Grand Princess cruise ship, which was waiting for approval to dock off the coast of California since Thursday. At least 21 people on the ship have been confirmed to have contracted the virus, with only some on board tested. American passengers will be quarantined at various military bases for 14 days. The process of disembarking all 2,421 passengers and sending the crew back to sea is expected to take 2 to 3 days.
 
Cases continued to be confirmed across the United States over the weekend, bringing the total to 566 confirmed cases across 34 states as of Monday morning. Six states have declared a state of emergency. Twenty two deaths have been reported nationwide.
 
The coronavirus control efforts continue abroad as well, with Italy quarantining cities in the northern region of the country just days after suspending school activities nationwide. More than 7,300 cases of COVID-19 have been confirmed in Italy.
 
South Korea has reported around 7500 cases, and on Sunday announced 179 new cases. This is the lowest 1-day total for the country in about 2 weeks. Public health officials remain cautiously optimistic about the slowdown.
 
For more information on COVID-19, visit ContagionLive.com. To track the spread of coronavirus in the United States and abroad, be sure to use the Contagion Outbreak Monitor.

 

https://www.contagionlive.com/news/contagion-live-news-network-coronavirus-updates-for-march-9-2020

 

 

Your own link from March 9th says 500 cases in the US.  Cruising stopped 4 days later.

[ray98]

On 5/24/2020 at 2:46 PM, pcakes122 said:

What they don't understand is that they could be carriers of Covid-19 (albeit with NO symptoms), and so they are wearing masks or getting tested to protect OTHER people,  not themselves.

 

 

 

.....that has yet to be proven.  The first studies are coming out now with negatives.  It will probably be the next CDC reversal after the touch contamination.

 

 

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32405162/?fbclid=IwAR0ruuH149NLVTJIfyWctQIwPMwuBGByIlTdw29xG8MPk1crkxSeUNXqaoo

 

Abstract

Background: An ongoing outbreak of coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) has spread around the world. It is debatable whether asymptomatic COVID-19 virus carriers are contagious. We report here a case of the asymptomatic patient and present clinical characteristics of 455 contacts, which aims to study the infectivity of asymptomatic carriers.

Material and methods: 455 contacts who were exposed to the asymptomatic COVID-19 virus carrier became the subjects of our research. They were divided into three groups: 35 patients, 196 family members and 224 hospital staffs. We extracted their epidemiological information, clinical records, auxiliary examination results and therapeutic schedules.

Results: The median contact time for patients was four days and that for family members was five days. Cardiovascular disease accounted for 25% among original diseases of patients. Apart from hospital staffs, both patients and family members were isolated medically. During the quarantine, seven patients plus one family member appeared new respiratory symptoms, where fever was the most common one. The blood counts in most contacts were within a normal range. All CT images showed no sign of COVID-19 infection. No severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) infections was detected in 455 contacts by nucleic acid test.

Conclusion: In summary, all the 455 contacts were excluded from SARS-CoV-2 infection and we conclude that the infectivity of some asymptomatic SARS-CoV-2 carriers might be weak.

Edited May 25, 2020 by ray98

[chipmaster]

4 hours ago, hftmrock said:

if you look at the timeline, There was less than 100 cases (and I don't know if any deaths) in the USA in early March and by March 13, All cruises stopped. So why would it boggle your mind if there was less than 100 cases in the USA , people went on cruises.

 

I went on a cruise on March 9 - 13. on March 9th, there was barely any cases in the USA.

 

 

Oh very simply if you thought a little it was obvious, of course most would say this is Monday morning quartebacking.

 

1) China and Wuhan is an international city and people traveled there and out all over the world

2) By late January we all knew something was up, well at least people who paid attention to these things.

3) Diamond Princess was in February

 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/cruise-ships-set-sail-knowing-the-deadly-risk-to-passengers-and-crew-11588346502