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What I have learned today


Himself
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21 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

To return to the original topic, if this cancellation is known, why are they not announcing it? 

 

They have a list of cancellations covering some of the period, but it's kind of like swiss cheese -- definitely some holes.


 

 

 

 

We were booked on the Pacific Coast cruise leaving Vancouver Sept 26th.  On May 29th the Canadian gov't extended its cruise cancellations until the end of Oct.  HAL didn't formally announce the cruise cancelled until June 11th.

 

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On 6/27/2020 at 1:32 AM, iancal said:

...

 

  I do not think that that any cruise line wants to be in a similar situation like Florida, Texas, or Arizona find themselves in.   Opening early, gangbusters, then the big oh my gosh it is still here....we screwed up big time.   Maybe we should have listened to our public health professions after all.  Cruise lines cannot afford any more bad publicity or litigation than they already have or are about to have.

.....

 

I agree and think that this is key.  We are now seeing clusters of cases, which were expected, once restrictions were relaxed.  The question that cruise lines have to face is how will an outbreak on a ship be received?  At this point, not well, not well at all.  No reason it would be any different than previous outbreaks and I agree with you, the cruise lines cannot afford this bad publicity and litigation.

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On 6/22/2020 at 7:04 PM, Himself said:

I have learned today that Holland America and Seaborn are canceling ALL cruises through November 30, 2020.

 

I also learned that when they sail again HAL will have fewer ships and HAL will probably be a much smaller line.

 

This is what I learned late this afternoon. 

Any updates to these reports?

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I take anything that I hear or read with more than a grain of salt. There was a  poster on this the thread just over a week ago who claimed that HAL was canceling all of their cruises for this year, which is as of this date is obviously bogus information. Furthermore, the media doesn't necessarily portray an accurate reflection of what's actually going on with covid. Simply Google the populations of New York, Florida, and Texas, then Google the number of covid deaths in these three States. Basic math shows the numbers of civid deaths per 100,000 in New York to be three or four times that of Florida or Texas. You would NEVER get that impression by listening to what the lamestream media slops out.

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1 hour ago, JB Books said:

I take anything that I hear or read with more than a grain of salt. There was a  poster on this the thread just over a week ago who claimed that HAL was canceling all of their cruises for this year, which is as of this date is obviously bogus information. Furthermore, the media doesn't necessarily portray an accurate reflection of what's actually going on with covid. Simply Google the populations of New York, Florida, and Texas, then Google the number of covid deaths in these three States. Basic math shows the numbers of civid deaths per 100,000 in New York to be three or four times that of Florida or Texas. You would NEVER get that impression by listening to what the lamestream media slops out.

 

 

Wait two weeks and then check the stats.  The cases are rising very fast and I hope there are no deaths but it’s very scary.  And sadly, I suspect that the covid deaths in the states you mention will rise.  New York is a high density area and with the flights coming in, they were hit.  From what I have seen their governor has handled it well and right now they are one of the few states where cases are NOT rising.  I can’t say the same for Florida, Texas and a number of others sadly.

I’m just glad I live in a country where we are trying to protect each other rather than argue about masks 😉 

 

I hope and pray our American neighbours can stay safe and healthy.  🙏🏻🤞

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5 hours ago, JB Books said:

I take anything that I hear or read with more than a grain of salt. There was a  poster on this the thread just over a week ago who claimed that HAL was canceling all of their cruises for this year, which is as of this date is obviously bogus information. Furthermore, the media doesn't necessarily portray an accurate reflection of what's actually going on with covid. Simply Google the populations of New York, Florida, and Texas, then Google the number of covid deaths in these three States. Basic math shows the numbers of civid deaths per 100,000 in New York to be three or four times that of Florida or Texas. You would NEVER get that impression by listening to what the lamestream media slops out.

 

May want to check out some raw numbers before posting

 

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2767980

 

Findings  In this cohort study, the number of deaths due to any cause increased by approximately 122 000 from March 1 to May 30, 2020, which is 28% higher than the reported number of COVID-19 deaths.

Meaning  Official tallies of deaths due to COVID-19 underestimate the full increase in deaths associated with the pandemic in many states.

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On 7/1/2020 at 4:38 PM, JB Books said:

I take anything that I hear or read with more than a grain of salt. There was a  poster on this the thread just over a week ago who claimed that HAL was canceling all of their cruises for this year, which is as of this date is obviously bogus information. Furthermore, the media doesn't necessarily portray an accurate reflection of what's actually going on with covid. Simply Google the populations of New York, Florida, and Texas, then Google the number of covid deaths in these three States. Basic math shows the numbers of civid deaths per 100,000 in New York to be three or four times that of Florida or Texas. You would NEVER get that impression by listening to what the lamestream media slops out.

You may be correct AT THIS TIME. But a little research would reveal deaths is a stat that trails infections by about 3 or 4 weeks. So, the deaths from the booming, current number of infections in Texas, Florida and Arizona probably won't start showing up for another 10 days or two weeks. Hopefully they don't. But we won't really know for a while.

 

Before you slam the "lamestream" media (which identifies your politics affecting your "facts",) you might want to view all the facts.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 6/22/2020 at 7:04 PM, Himself said:

I have learned today that Holland America and Seaborn are canceling ALL cruises through November 30, 2020.

 

I also learned that when they sail again HAL will have fewer ships and HAL will probably be a much smaller line.

 

This is what I learned late this afternoon. 

Any estimate as to when HAL might be confirming this projection? We have a cruise booked on the Westerdam on Nov 27th with a FPDD of Aug 28th. As we really don't want to tie up a significant amount of cash if this cruise is actually cancelled and since HAL doesn't seem to be backing off of their 90 day minimum for final payment date like Princess has, we're hoping HAL is going to reveal this decision before then. Any additional insights?

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1 hour ago, Ken the cruiser said:

Any estimate as to when HAL might be confirming this projection? We have a cruise booked on the Westerdam on Nov 27th with a FPDD of Aug 28th. As we really don't want to tie up a significant amount of cash if this cruise is actually cancelled and since HAL doesn't seem to be backing off of their 90 day minimum for final payment date like Princess has, we're hoping HAL is going to reveal this decision before then. Any additional insights?

 

This has put many into a state of flux - what to do, what to do.  It seems very odd to me that HAL would announce it's plans and intentions to a relatively small group and allow them to announce it to the world, with complete silence on the issue from HAL.  Strange way to run a corporation.

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1 hour ago, Ken the cruiser said:

Any estimate as to when HAL might be confirming this projection? We have a cruise booked on the Westerdam on Nov 27th with a FPDD of Aug 28th. As we really don't want to tie up a significant amount of cash if this cruise is actually cancelled and since HAL doesn't seem to be backing off of their 90 day minimum for final payment date like Princess has, we're hoping HAL is going to reveal this decision before then. Any additional insights?

 

3 minutes ago, T8NCruise said:

 

This has put many into a state of flux - what to do, what to do.  It seems very odd to me that HAL would announce it's plans and intentions to a relatively small group and allow them to announce it to the world, with complete silence on the issue from HAL.  Strange way to run a corporation.

 

The Chief (aliaschief) just started a thread a short while ago with a link to Carnival’s roll out of ships.  Here is the link he provided https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/cruises/2020/07/10/carnival-corp-cruises-operations-capacity-coronavirus-2022/5405777002/

 

Nothing is said about Novemenber in the article that I can see.

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24 minutes ago, kazu said:

 

 

The Chief (aliaschief) just started a thread a short while ago with a link to Carnival’s roll out of ships.  Here is the link he provided https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/cruises/2020/07/10/carnival-corp-cruises-operations-capacity-coronavirus-2022/5405777002/

 

Nothing is said about Novemenber in the article that I can see.

 

Yes indeed. The closest they get to any timeline is this statement:

 

"While AIDA is scheduled to sail, the vast majority of Carnival Corp.'s brands, including flagship Carnival Cruise Line, Princess Cruises, Holland America Line, P&O Cruises, Costa Cruises, Seabourn and Cunard will remain on pause for the time being, spokesperson Roger Frizzell told USA TODAY Thursday, reiterating that "the timeframe for restart in the U.S. has not been determined."

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6 hours ago, Ken the cruiser said:

Any estimate as to when HAL might be confirming this projection? We have a cruise booked on the Westerdam on Nov 27th with a FPDD of Aug 28th. As we really don't want to tie up a significant amount of cash if this cruise is actually cancelled and since HAL doesn't seem to be backing off of their 90 day minimum for final payment date like Princess has, we're hoping HAL is going to reveal this decision before then. Any additional insights?

 

I am booked on a Nov 22 cruise out of Tampa and my final payment due date is Sep 23.  HAL announced that they had changed the 90 days to 60 days a while back.  If you go to the payment account for your cruise and scroll down to Total Due, you can see the adjusted final payment date in very faint text.

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6 hours ago, Ken the cruiser said:

Any estimate as to when HAL might be confirming this projection? We have a cruise booked on the Westerdam on Nov 27th with a FPDD of Aug 28th. As we really don't want to tie up a significant amount of cash if this cruise is actually cancelled and since HAL doesn't seem to be backing off of their 90 day minimum for final payment date like Princess has, we're hoping HAL is going to reveal this decision before then. Any additional insights?

Hi Ken,

 

HAL moved final payment for this cruise back a month...ours is due Sept 14 with our Big Box ta...giving us a little more time.  Looking at the HAL site and my TA site, there are a lot of available cabins now.  If it goes we may have a lot of social distancing space on this cruise.  We have a pre cruise wine country package and our flight leaves the 24th of November.  We will wait until HAL cancels.  At this point I don't care whether we go or not.

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1 hour ago, Crew News said:

 

I am booked on a Nov 22 cruise out of Tampa and my final payment due date is Sep 23.  HAL announced that they had changed the 90 days to 60 days a while back.  If you go to the payment account for your cruise and scroll down to Total Due, you can see the adjusted final payment date in very faint text.

 

1 hour ago, Loreto said:

Hi Ken,

 

HAL moved final payment for this cruise back a month...ours is due Sept 14 with our Big Box ta...giving us a little more time.  Looking at the HAL site and my TA site, there are a lot of available cabins now.  If it goes we may have a lot of social distancing space on this cruise.  We have a pre cruise wine country package and our flight leaves the 24th of November.  We will wait until HAL cancels.  At this point I don't care whether we go or not.

 

final payments are indeed moved back by nearly a month but keep in mind that the cancellation penalties still start on the original date.

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On 7/1/2020 at 4:38 PM, JB Books said:

I take anything that I hear or read with more than a grain of salt. There was a  poster on this the thread just over a week ago who claimed that HAL was canceling all of their cruises for this year, which is as of this date is obviously bogus information. Furthermore, the media doesn't necessarily portray an accurate reflection of what's actually going on with covid. Simply Google the populations of New York, Florida, and Texas, then Google the number of covid deaths in these three States. Basic math shows the numbers of civid deaths per 100,000 in New York to be three or four times that of Florida or Texas. You would NEVER get that impression by listening to what the lamestream media slops out.

Keep in mind that deaths lag test results.  Median time to death from time of first symptoms is around 14 days (range 5 to 48 days).  In the case of NY we are well past their peak so most of the deaths there have had time to occur.  In the case of Texas and Florida we are still climbing so several weeks before we see the end results there.

 

That said there is about a 30% less chance of a patient being admitted to intensive care dying compared to when the NY peak occurred due to better understanding of the illness and use of blood thinners and anti inflammatory drugs as part of treatments now.

 

The 7 day moving average on daily deaths in the US due to COVID-19 is now on the up swing, after hitting minimum on July 5 at 516 per day.

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2 hours ago, Loreto said:

Hi Ken,

 

HAL moved final payment for this cruise back a month...ours is due Sept 14 with our Big Box ta...giving us a little more time.  Looking at the HAL site and my TA site, there are a lot of available cabins now.  If it goes we may have a lot of social distancing space on this cruise.  We have a pre cruise wine country package and our flight leaves the 24th of November.  We will wait until HAL cancels.  At this point I don't care whether we go or not.

Thanks for that. We will definitely ask our TA about that since HAL doesn't seem to want to advertise that fact for some reason.

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1 hour ago, kazu said:

 

 

final payments are indeed moved back by nearly a month but keep in mind that the cancellation penalties still start on the original date.

Excellent post.  I'm not sure many are aware that the penalty timelines haven't changed.  I know I wasn't.

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8 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Yes indeed. The closest they get to any timeline is this statement:

 

"While AIDA is scheduled to sail, the vast majority of Carnival Corp.'s brands, including flagship Carnival Cruise Line, Princess Cruises, Holland America Line, P&O Cruises, Costa Cruises, Seabourn and Cunard will remain on pause for the time being, spokesperson Roger Frizzell told USA TODAY Thursday, reiterating that "the timeframe for restart in the U.S. has not been determined."

 

Pleased to see that the Aida brand will be the first to sail.  I would not have thought that income from that operating company would be the first to be booked on CCL's books as "booked income" since the shut down began.  I wish those initial cruisers well and I hope they will enjoy a pleasant cruise.

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11 hours ago, kazu said:

 

 

The Chief (aliaschief) just started a thread a short while ago with a link to Carnival’s roll out of ships.  Here is the link he provided https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/cruises/2020/07/10/carnival-corp-cruises-operations-capacity-coronavirus-2022/5405777002/

 

Nothing is said about Novemenber in the article that I can see.

Jacqui:

Thank you for the link to an interesting  article.

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Turks and Caicos have just listed requirements for travel.  People need a test five days prior to arrival and travel insurance with Medevac coverage.  I wonder if the other islands will have similar requirements.

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/news/turks-and-caicos-updates-travel-requirements/ar-BB16E749?ocid=msedgntp

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12 minutes ago, Galley Slave said:

Turks and Caicos have just listed requirements for travel.  People need a test five days prior to arrival and travel insurance with Medevac coverage.  I wonder if the other islands will have similar requirements.

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/news/turks-and-caicos-updates-travel-requirements/ar-BB16E749?ocid=msedgntp


I can almost bet insurance premiums will sky rocket

 

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And if one of you is 85 or so (though healthy) just try to find Medivac (or any other) insurance that doesn't cost more than the cruise. Doesn't look very promising. But we'll just have to wait and see and hope for the best. Really miss cruising!

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