Oceania refuses to refund

[karenbalk]

My elderly mother was scheduled for the trip of a lifetime in March - a 3 week Oceania cruise around South America scheduled to depart on March 15, 2020 - with her 2 siblings and her brother-in-law. She is on a fixed income so this was a significant expense. They flew to Lima, Peru the week before but quickly realized the rapidly evolving pandemic situation was making travel unsafe - particularly for their elderly group and one of them being particularly immune compromised. So they cancelled the cruise and made arrangements to fly out of Lima on March 15th - Sunday night, around 11pm. By Monday morning, March 16th, all flights in and out of Peru were cancelled due to the Pandemic. Thank goodness they got out. And, Oceania cancelled the cruise. Oceania however will not refund the group's payments for the cruise, around $10,000 each, because they said it was their party who cancelled - EVEN THOUGH THE CRUISE WAS ULTIMATELY CANCELLED! They could not have gone on it if they wanted to. Oceania will only offer a future credit which must be booked by March 2021. Meanwhile - who on earth could even think about planning cruise, while still in a pandemic! Oceania needs to do show some humanity and do the right thing morally - give the 4 of them their $40,000 back! As I mentioned, my mother is on a fixed income, and health issues have made one in their party even more immune compromised. If Oceania doesn't do the right thing, I urge anyone who reads this to not support Oceania in the future. I know I won't. 

[cayman09]

I think I'd have more of a problem with my mother and her siblings if she was on a fixed income yet spent $10,000 for a cruise. Oceania isn't responsible for her financial situation and is offering a credit, take it.

[Paulchili]

As much as I feel for you and your mom & family, Oceania is not likely to change the policy in this situation.

When a passenger cancels before the cruise line does, full refund is not an option.

Oceania might have been more generous and have some good will perhaps under normal circumstances but they are financially strapped themselves and short on funds with no immediate cash coming in. They have enough trouble refunding to those passengers who are entitled to a full refund - i.e. those that cancelled the cruise after Oceania did.

I am very sorry. Was there any travel insurance taken out?

Edited June 23, 2020 by Paulchili

[Flatbush Flyer]

59 minutes ago, karenbalk said:

My elderly mother was scheduled for the trip of a lifetime in March - a 3 week Oceania cruise around South America scheduled to depart on March 15, 2020 - with her 2 siblings and her brother-in-law. She is on a fixed income so this was a significant expense. They flew to Lima, Peru the week before but quickly realized the rapidly evolving pandemic situation was making travel unsafe - particularly for their elderly group and one of them being particularly immune compromised. So they cancelled the cruise and made arrangements to fly out of Lima on March 15th - Sunday night, around 11pm. By Monday morning, March 16th, all flights in and out of Peru were cancelled due to the Pandemic. Thank goodness they got out. And, Oceania cancelled the cruise. Oceania however will not refund the group's payments for the cruise, around $10,000 each, because they said it was their party who cancelled - EVEN THOUGH THE CRUISE WAS ULTIMATELY CANCELLED! They could not have gone on it if they wanted to. Oceania will only offer a future credit which must be booked by March 2021. Meanwhile - who on earth could even think about planning cruise, while still in a pandemic! Oceania needs to do show some humanity and do the right thing morally - give the 4 of them their $40,000 back! As I mentioned, my mother is on a fixed income, and health issues have made one in their party even more immune compromised. If Oceania doesn't do the right thing, I urge anyone who reads this to not support Oceania in the future. I know I won't. 

I can certainly understand your angst and dismay.  However,

...you chose to cancel and, even so, O did offer the group FCCs (which, although requiring booking by March 2021, will be useful for cruises through at least part of 2022). By O's normal T&Cs, you deserved no FCCs. But O has added this accommodation since Covid-19 became an issue.

 

This is basically the same practice as is being employed by airlines and the bottom line all boils down to who cancels first. Most savvy travelers have quickly learned to NOT cancel and recognize that companies like Oceania and United are not going to "shoot themselves in the foot," which is why they're giving FCCs of 100% or more.

 

FWIW, we were on Nautica this past February- headed to a confirmed disembarkation berth in Singapore when O decided to bow to extreme caution and head to Dubai instead. Nonetheless, we were given 50% refunds plus a 25% FCC and the crew went far and beyond to accommodate the needs of DIY air travelers in rebooking flights/hotels/etc.

 

And, we have applied that FCC and a second one for an O cancelled cruise last month (in addition to a 100% refund) to a final payment for a November 2020 cruise that we fully expect will also be cancelled (resulting in both FCC redeposit AND an additional FCC. I mention this because, ultimately, we will net a "complimentary" $25k+\- cruise for our inconvenience.

 

So, IMO, you should rebook for a 2022 cruise and use your FCCs. 

 

BTW, in the US, there is federal legislation under consideration that would require airlines to do what you ask, i.e., $ refund if they ultimately cancel - even if you cancelled first. But, I wouldn't "hold my breath" for that to then extend to the cruise industry.

 

 

Edited June 23, 2020 by Flatbush Flyer

[RachelG]

The rules are--if you cancelled a cruise before the cruise line cancelled but after final payment, prior to Covid, you would get nothing back at all unless you had trip insurance to cover it.  Now, if you cancel before Oceania does, you get FCC's.  Those are the rules.  So she needs to schedule another cruise before 2022 and use the FCC's.  And if she bought trip insurance make a claim with them.  If she didn't buy trip insurance, that is on her, not Oceania.

[Flatbush Flyer]

7 minutes ago, RachelG said:

.... And if she bought trip insurance make a claim with them.  If she didn't buy trip insurance, that is on her, not Oceania.

Insurance claim? Claim for what?

Other than CFAR policies, fear of something is not a "covered reason." And even with CFAR, depending on the fine print, there still may be exclusions. For example, most newly issuing CFAR policies are excluding Pandemics.

[RachelG]

1 minute ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

Insurance claim? Claim for what?

Other than CFAR policies, fear of something is not a "covered reason." And even with CFAR, depending on the fine print, there still may be exclusions. For example, most newly issuing CFAR policies are excluding Pandemics.

I agree, it would have to be a CFAR policy. 

[karenbalk]

So I do understand the legal aspect of it. I am asking Oceania to do the right thing, the ethical thing.   We had hotel reservations for the same timeframe and we had to cancel.  Some hotels just did the right and didn’t hesitate to give us a refund on our credit card thing even though we had non refundable rates. Those hotels we would go back to.  they recognize that these are extenuating circumstances - a global pandemic - and show sympathy for their customers and good customer service. The ones who did not, we will no longer patronize.  

 

Oceania is in a much better position to absorb a $40000 loss than 4 elderly people. 
 

Edited June 23, 2020 by karenbalk

[Flatbush Flyer]

9 minutes ago, karenbalk said:

So I do understand the legal aspect of it. I am asking Oceania to do the right thing, the ethical thing.   We had hotel reservations for the same timeframe and we had to cancel.  Some hotels just did the right and didn’t hesitate to give us a refund on our credit card thing even though we had non refundable rates. Those hotels we would go back to.  The ones who did not, we will no longer patronize.  Oceania is in a much better position to absorb a $40000 loss than 4 elderly people.  

What's "elderly" got to do with it? And some "fixed incomes" are sizable. So, trying to play that "sympathy card" is useless.

And, as for your initial statement of you "won't sail again with Oceania," what exactly will that accomplish? Whether it's a cruise line or an airline, you are a "rounding error" in their daily bottom line. On the other hand, your not using that FCC is throwing $10k (x4) down the drain.

 

You really need to rethink your position.

[LHT28]

16 minutes ago, karenbalk said:

.  Oceania is in a much better position to absorb a $40000 loss than 4 elderly people.  

Seriously

 They borrowed  $$  to stay in business & pay back  people who  had cruises cancelled  plus  the crew & keep the ships sailing

 

Take the FCC   & book something closer to home

 

 

 https://www.seatrade-cruise.com/news/nclh-secures-additional-675m-liquidity-amid-coronavirus-uncertainty

[karenbalk]

My mother’s fixed income is anything g but sizable.   and I said “I” would not cruise with them.  If that is my mother’s only choice - a credit - I hope she can use it when this pandemic is over.  Sadly, One of her travel companions  likely won’t be able to due to health Issues. I understand business have policies.  Having flexibility during challenging times is good customer service. Those are the companies I would choose to deal with. 
 

I would also ask this - anyone can disagree with my opinion on this in a respectful manner.  But no one has to be nasty. You can have a little sympathy for people. It is a becoming personality trait. 

[Petoonya]

Feel so badly for your mom and family. I know that even on a fixed income sometimes just doing a fun but extravagant thing is just what the doctor ordered for elderly folks. It's unfortunate that their cruise ended up being right at the beginning of cruises shutting down- terrible luck. But as others have said here, if a cruiser cancels it's on them not the cruise line even if the cruise is cancelled the next day. The cancellation policy should have been read or explained if they are first time cruisers.

 

Once again my heart goes out to you and them but the cash is lost. The future cruise credit will allow her the fun of having another cruise to anticipate in the future.

[LHT28]

34 minutes ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

Insurance claim? Claim for what?

Other than CFAR policies, fear of something is not a "covered reason." And even with CFAR, depending on the fine print, there still may be exclusions. For example, most newly issuing CFAR policies are excluding Pandemics.

If ins was bought before Jan 21st   it may be covered  before it was named a Pandemic

  They need to check with the insurer 

Not all policies are created equal

Read the fine print

[LHT28]

11 minutes ago, karenbalk said:

My mother’s fixed income is anything g but sizable.   and I said “I” would not cruise with them.  If that is my mother’s only choice - a credit - I hope she can use it when this pandemic is over.  Sadly, One of her travel companions  likely won’t be able to due to health Issues. I understand business have policies.  Having flexibility during challenging times is good customer service. Those are the companies I would choose to deal with. 
 

 

Did you use  a TA to book the cruise ?

Maybe have them go to bat for you

I think  the FCC can be used for  another person  but you would have to  ask the cruise line

 

 

[Flatbush Flyer]

22 minutes ago, karenbalk said:

My mother’s fixed income is anything g but sizable.   and I said “I” would not cruise with them.  If that is my mother’s only choice - a credit - I hope she can use it when this pandemic is over.  Sadly, One of her travel companions  likely won’t be able to due to health Issues. I understand business have policies.  Having flexibility during challenging times is good customer service. Those are the companies I would choose to deal with. 
 

I would also ask this - anyone can disagree with my opinion on this in a respectful manner.  But no one has to be nasty. You can have a little sympathy for people. It is a becoming personality trait. 

No one is being disrespectful. But being pointed out reality can be a tough pill to swallow. 

As for the "flexibility" you seek, please remember that Oceania owed you nothing. Instead, they gave you, at least, the value you paid (probably more, e.g., 125%).

[karenbalk]

To the person who took issue with my use of the term elderly - a lot can change in a year or two for people in their 70’s and 80’s. And in fact, one of them already has a significant health issue since the trip was cancelled.  
 

And to the person who takes issue with a person on a fixed income taking an expensive trip.  One could argue that a trip of a lifetime to see part of the world new to them with their elderly siblings is a great use of money.  

[karenbalk]

Please try not to judge others so harshly. As I said, sympathy and empathy are becoming traits 

[karenbalk]

As I said, Many hotels who have also Been hit hard during this pandemic have refunded money even though rates were ‘non refundable.’  Businesses have flexibility to contradict their policies.  They do it all the time.  Sometimes It’s just the right thing to do in many cases. 

Edited June 23, 2020 by karenbalk

[Cruseforme]

I agree with Lyn, have their TA (hopefully they are high volume) discuss with Oceania.  I understand your frustration, and this subject has been raised before on CC but those of us on CC can’t do much more than sympathize.   It’s a different time out there, and their TA should be fighting for them.   Good luck.   

[babydrum]

1 hour ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

Insurance claim? Claim for what?

Other than CFAR policies, fear of something is not a "covered reason." And even with CFAR, depending on the fine print, there still may be exclusions. For example, most newly issuing CFAR policies are excluding Pandemics.

I don't understand how it is still CFAR if they exclude pandemics.  I read that somewhere else and couldn't you still cancel but not use the pandemic as the reason?  Just curious because I won't waste my time paying for CFAR if it is that restrictive.

[ToxM]

I believe that non refundable hotels - if they cannot offer the room have to refund as they are not offering the service. it looks like the hotels would not have been able to accommodate them so they were not able to offer their service, so they would have refunded. 

 

What view has the insurance taken on this with regard to the cruise? Possibly not as positively as Oceania. 

 

The timeline of events in Peru with regard to their Covid19 lockdown show that they get out of the country just in time, and that was very canny of them to do so. 

 

There is a case for due diligence here - one should always be aware of the ramifications of cancelling a contract at such short notice. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but if it were me I would have not cancelled and let nature take it’s course - it would be interesting to know if there was any communication with Oceania prior to the cancellation. All travel in Peru was cancelled and forbidden from the 16th, the party clearly knew this as they left very very late on the 15th. 

 

Whilst it does seem harsh, Oceania have appeared to have gone above and beyond with the FCC - they wouldn’t have got on the cruise anyway, and the subsequent health issues would still be present for one of the party anyway. A refund would be nice, but they cancelled not Oceania. They broke the contract. 

 

I do wonder what information they were given when they cancelled or indeed how that conversation - if there was any went. 

 

Here’s the timeline of events https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_Peru

 

I am sorry if this is not what you want to hear. 

 

 

[clo]

On 6/23/2020 at 8:47 AM, Flatbush Flyer said:

So, IMO, you should rebook for a 2022 cruise and use your FCCs. 

 

Would/could someone else use the FCC of the mother et al?

[newlondon]

Karen, I sympathize since DW and I canceled a trip to Casablanca with a lunch at Rick's Cafe and we also only got a FCC. I knew, however that we were saying good bye to the cash and tbh I feel your mother should have known that. If you travel, being aware of what might happen is crucial; as it frequently does.

Far more important to us is what will cruising be like when it restarts. We are around 80 and if there is no vaccine we may not be able to use the FCC as a highly restricted environment, although safe, may not be much fun.   

[Jancruz]

On 6/23/2020 at 10:09 AM, Flatbush Flyer said:

What's "elderly" got to do with it? And some "fixed incomes" are sizable. So, trying to play that "sympathy card" is useless.

And, as for your initial statement of you "won't sail again with Oceania," what exactly will that accomplish? Whether it's a cruise line or an airline, you are a "rounding error" in their daily bottom line. On the other hand, your not using that FCC is throwing $10k (x4) down the drain.

 

You really need to rethink your position.

Plus 1

Jancruz1

[clo]

2 hours ago, Jancruz said:

Plus 1

Jancruz1

Have none of you ever been in sales? Do you not understand that losing one customer isn't just one. They're going to tell others. And with social media the sky's the limit. I think O has done a piss-poor job with service and PR during these last months.