US Citizen - keep an eye on Schengen/EU potential of denying entry due to COVID failuresI

[slidergirl]

I was hanging out on the couch when I heard this come across the TV:  The Schengen consortium (or EU, I can't remember which, sorry), may ban flights from the US and US Citizens from entering because of the failure of the US to control COVID-19 in the country.  The decision is expected next week.  This could have an effect on any cruisers who were hoping to get in a European cruise before the end of the year...   

Edited June 23, 2020 by slidergirl

[DaveSJ711]

39 minutes ago, slidergirl said:

I was hanging out on the couch when I heard this come across the TV:  The Schengen consortium (or EU, I can't remember which, sorry), may ban flights from the US and US Citizens from entering because of the failure of the US to control COVID-19 in the country.  The decision is expected next week.  This could have an effect on any cruisers who were hoping to get in a European cruise before the end of the year...   

 

This story is leading in the New York Times right now.  https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/23/world/europe/coronavirus-EU-American-travel-ban.html?action=click&module=Top Stories&pgtype=Homepage

[Ashland]

We booked a Christmas Market multi country land tour scheduled to depart from Munich long before this virus started. We are to fly from LAX-MUN then VIE-LAX leaving November 30,2020. Not very hopeful but would have no problem re-scheduling it for 2021.

[clo]

1 hour ago, DaveSJ711 said:

 

This story is leading in the New York Times right now.  https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/23/world/europe/coronavirus-EU-American-travel-ban.html?action=click&module=Top Stories&pgtype=Homepage

I have a paywall on the NYT but here's another. It's too bad that our nation hasn't been currying favor across the pond. I'll be shocked if this doesn't go into effect. The US is in lousy shape re COVID and I can totally understand their not wanting us to bring our bugs into their part of the world.

https://www.theverge.com/2020/6/23/21300747/european-union-eu-ban-us-travel-coronavirus-reopening-borders-draft-list

[mom says]

1 hour ago, clo said:

 It's too bad that our nation hasn't been currying favor across the pond. 

I doubt that any lack of currying favor with EU is a big factor,  even though it's popularity there is likely at an all time low. But your COVID rate will no doubt be the deciding factor. Sorry,  but America  (amongst others), is the Typhoid Mary of the 21st century.

[clo]

3 minutes ago, mom says said:

I doubt that any lack of currying favor with EU is a big factor,  even though it's popularity there is likely at an all time low. But your COVID rate will no doubt be the deciding factor. Sorry,  but America  (amongst others), is the Typhoid Mary of the 21st century.

I agree with you completely.

[evandbob]

If another country has the same # of COVID cases as us here in the USA, we would surely block them from coming here, so it totally understandable that countries that have done a better job coping with this virus want to keep us out of theirs.

[ilikeanswers]

4 hours ago, evandbob said:

If another country has the same # of COVID cases as us here in the USA, we would surely block them from coming here, so it totally understandable that countries that have done a better job coping with this virus want to keep us out of theirs.

 

When Europe's cases were rising and the USA had few cases America's government put travel restrictions on the EU. With the roles reversed America shouldn't be surprised that the EU would take the same cautious approach.

 

Travel bubbles could very well be the way of the future:

 

Welcome to a World of Bubbles

[BlueRiband]

It's the EU's right to do so.  At the same time we can't stay locked down in perpetuity. 

 

Not surprising that the articles would claim the US allegedly "botching" the early response.  The US had a task force in place in January when we had 10 cases...and banned flights from China that month.  China, for it's part banned travel within their country to and from Wuhan while they continued to allow international flights in and out of that city. 

 

Now it's true that the CDC in the US screwed up big time.  Just as Covid-19 was gaining a foothold the CDC's test kits were almost useless:  CDC’s failed coronavirus tests were tainted with coronavirus, feds confirm

[navybankerteacher]

1 hour ago, BlueRiband said:

It's the EU's right to do so.  At the same time we can't stay locked down in perpetuity. 

...

Of course we can’t stay locked down in perpetuity - but there is no reason to not apply reasonable precautions for as long as it takes to get through.  The problem is that the level of ignorance in the US seems to make it difficult for many to understand that there is a middle ground.  “Opening up” did not have to mean “no rules” — but  when you see the ignorant mobs shoulder to shoulder - no distancing, no masks - you should not be surprised to see a resurgence of hospitalizations a couple of weeks later.

[evandbob]

1 hour ago, navybankerteacher said:

Of course we can’t stay locked down in perpetuity - but there is no reason to not apply reasonable precautions for as long as it takes to get through.  The problem is that the level of ignorance in the US seems to make it difficult for many to understand that there is a middle ground.  “Opening up” did not have to mean “no rules” — but  when you see the ignorant mobs shoulder to shoulder - no distancing, no masks - you should not be surprised to see a resurgence of hospitalizations a couple of weeks later.

 

Along with the mental attitude described above, Americans are perhaps one of the most unhealthy folk around.  Diabetes, obesity, high blood pressure and cardiac issues abound for most in older age groups, and COVID seems to infect people with these issues at higher rates than healthy folk.

 

It's a shame that there wasn't a national push for everyone in this country to do something healthy for themselves during our COVID down time.  That could have done much to flatten the curve.  Instead, I'll wager that many have put on an extra COVID 19 lbs instead of losing them.  I do include myself in the lazy group!

 

As far as the young folk go, a healthy 17 yr old and a 19 yr old recently died from COVID in this area of SWFL.

[GlamorousGirl]

The problem is we have a lot more testing - which inevitably means more cases. We did the right thing offering testing to anyone who wants it, symptoms or not, and other countries are punishing us for it. What’s really mind-blowing is that they’re closing the border to the US but not China! I guess we should have done a lot less testing like almost everyone else.

[navybankerteacher]

18 minutes ago, GlamorousGirl said:

The problem is we have a lot more testing - which inevitably means more cases. We did the right thing offering testing to anyone who wants it, symptoms or not, and other countries are punishing us for it. What’s really mind-blowing is that they’re closing the border to the US but not China! I guess we should have done a lot less testing like almost everyone else.

Testing only advises of cases - it does not create cases —- which seems to be the impression many of our leaders hold (generally the same louts who let their folk believe that masks do nothing and that social distancing is no longer necessary - because we already did that for a while).

[clo]

30 minutes ago, GlamorousGirl said:

The problem is we have a lot more testing - which inevitably means more cases. We did the right thing offering testing to anyone who wants it, symptoms or not, and other countries are punishing us for it. What’s really mind-blowing is that they’re closing the border to the US but not China! I guess we should have done a lot less testing like almost everyone else.

We're not just getting more testing but hospitalizations are soaring. Totally different.

[ilikeanswers]

48 minutes ago, GlamorousGirl said:

The problem is we have a lot more testing - which inevitably means more cases. We did the right thing offering testing to anyone who wants it, symptoms or not, and other countries are punishing us for it. What’s really mind-blowing is that they’re closing the border to the US but not China! I guess we should have done a lot less testing like almost everyone else.

 

Actually the EU is also taking into consideration testing capacity. If they find the official numbers don't corroborate with reports on the ground they will assume the country is being dishonest. It is one of the reasons Russia is on the list, there is a lot of doubt that their numbers are as low as they claim. So if the USA reduces testing it will take only longer for their citizens to have unrestricted access to EU bloc.

Edited June 24, 2020 by ilikeanswers

[Nic6318]

1 hour ago, GlamorousGirl said:

The problem is we have a lot more testing - which inevitably means more cases. We did the right thing offering testing to anyone who wants it, symptoms or not, and other countries are punishing us for it. What’s really mind-blowing is that they’re closing the border to the US but not China! I guess we should have done a lot less testing like almost everyone else.

 

Hi

 

You are looking at the testing in the wrong way. 

 

As Clo said, if you did "no" testing it wouldn't change the fact that people continue to get sick. In fact those numbers would would likely go through the roof because you literally "would not have a clue". The restrictions were put in place to prevent this from happening. Did you already forget.. flatten the curve to prevent overwhelming the hospitals. 

 

Testing is a tool that you use to help you understand where you are at. If you are not going to use the few tools that you do have, then you are giving up. The more testing the more "positive" cases you will find, but along with more testing, the more "negative" cases you will find. The testing doesn't change what is happening. If the percentage of "positive" tests grow compared to the "negative" tests found, then the virus is growing. If the percentage of + test shrinks compared to the - negative tests, then the virus is shrinking, you can't changes those facts.

 

p.s. forgot to mention... everyone is doing more testing. The problem initially was the fact there were not enough tests available. The only places where testing hasn't grown are places that have given up or don't have the means, and generally in places where the virus is out of control. As it has already been said in this thread, relaxation of restrictions does not mean that anything is over. 

Edited June 24, 2020 by Nic6318

[CruiserBruce]

2 hours ago, GlamorousGirl said:

The problem is we have a lot more testing - which inevitably means more cases. We did the right thing offering testing to anyone who wants it, symptoms or not, and other countries are punishing us for it. What’s really mind-blowing is that they’re closing the border to the US but not China! I guess we should have done a lot less testing like almost everyone else.

More testing only means more cases if the disease is spreading. If the disease is not spreading, the percentage of positives out of all tests will actually decrease. Pretty obviously, the disease is still spreading. Even the Governors of Florida and Texas, after denying it and using the "more testing equals more cases" excuse, have admitted the truth.

[dogs4fun]

22 hours ago, clo said:

The US is in lousy shape re COVID and I can totally understand their not wanting us to bring our bugs into their part of the world.

I'm in complete agreement with your assessment.

[ldubs]

4 hours ago, CruiserBruce said:

More testing only means more cases if the disease is spreading. If the disease is not spreading, the percentage of positives out of all tests will actually decrease. Pretty obviously, the disease is still spreading. Even the Governors of Florida and Texas, after denying it and using the "more testing equals more cases" excuse, have admitted the truth.

 

I don't agree with that we should reduce testing and I know that is what you are responding to.  But I kind of scratched my head on a couple of things.   

 

"More testing means more cases if the disease is spreading".   If the infection rate is stable the count of cases will increase with more tests even though the disease is not spreading.  I think what you mean is a higher rate of positive cases means the disease is spreading.   I agree totally.   

 

"If the disease is not spreading, the percentage of positives out of all tests will actually decrease".  Maybe if you mean by not spreading it is declining.  If the infection rate is stable, then the percent of positives will remain the same.

 

I don't know if it was this thread or another, but someone shared data on current case rates (% positives).  I thought that very important info to support what you are saying.  Anyway, hopefully all will agree that we should ramp up testing so we have the best data available.     

[Heidi13]

6 hours ago, ldubs said:

 

I don't agree with that we should reduce testing and I know that is what you are responding to.  But I kind of scratched my head on a couple of things.   

 

"More testing means more cases if the disease is spreading".   If the infection rate is stable the count of cases will increase with more tests even though the disease is not spreading.  I think what you mean is a higher rate of positive cases means the disease is spreading.   I agree totally.   

 

"If the disease is not spreading, the percentage of positives out of all tests will actually decrease".  Maybe if you mean by not spreading it is declining.  If the infection rate is stable, then the percent of positives will remain the same.

 

I don't know if it was this thread or another, but someone shared data on current case rates (% positives).  I thought that very important info to support what you are saying.  Anyway, hopefully all will agree that we should ramp up testing so we have the best data available.     

 

Although I would never suggest reducing testing rates, in our local experience, we have a very low testing percentage (3%), but our Chief Medical Health Officer has been very successful in flatening the curve. With a population of about 5.2M, we have a total of 170 deaths, currently only 14 in hospital, of which 7 are in ICU. 

 

Rather than focusing on testing stations, etc our public health puts more effort into contact tracing to identify and quarantine people that have been potentially exposed.

 

When testing identifies a positive cases, how effective is the contact tracing in other areas, to negate the spread? 

[ilikeanswers]

7 minutes ago, Heidi13 said:

Rather than focusing on testing stations, etc our public health puts more effort into contact tracing to identify and quarantine people that have been potentially exposed.

 

Testing on its own is never enough. Contact tracing is very important, in Australia we have teams of contact tracers that manually try and track people down along with a Covid-19 tracking app. However you can't contact trace if you don't test. These things need each other to work. 

[ldubs]

7 minutes ago, Heidi13 said:

 

Although I would never suggest reducing testing rates, in our local experience, we have a very low testing percentage (3%), but our Chief Medical Health Officer has been very successful in flatening the curve. With a population of about 5.2M, we have a total of 170 deaths, currently only 14 in hospital, of which 7 are in ICU. 

 

Rather than focusing on testing stations, etc our public health puts more effort into contact tracing to identify and quarantine people that have been potentially exposed.

 

When testing identifies a positive cases, how effective is the contact tracing in other areas, to negate the spread? 

 

My county is doing pretty well.  We are about 1.15 million.  Currently 32 in hospital and 67 total deaths since the start.  The county is asking folks to get tested and has set up free testing sites all over the place.   The target is about 2,000 tests per day.  We are currently at about 1500. Additionally, retesting of priority groups are happening.   Contact tracing is at about 55% of where it needs to be based on our case counts.  That appears to be an area we need to work on.  

[GrJ Berkshire]

17 hours ago, GlamorousGirl said:

The problem is we have a lot more testing - which inevitably means more cases. We did the right thing offering testing to anyone who wants it, symptoms or not, and other countries are punishing us for it. What’s really mind-blowing is that they’re closing the border to the US but not China! I guess we should have done a lot less testing like almost everyone else.

Sorry but this is rubbish ,fuelled by the US right wing press. Look at the figures of covid cases in the South and Southwest of the states after opening up with no mitigation. The testing regime is not the issue!

 

 

 

 

 

[EscapeFromConnecticut]

4 hours ago, GrJ Berkshire said:

Sorry but this is rubbish ,fuelled by the US right wing press. Look at the figures of covid cases in the South and Southwest of the states after opening up with no mitigation. The testing regime is not the issue!

 

 

 

 

 

 

GrJ Berkshire - yes, unfortunately the extremists here in the U.S. (and the "optimists" on CC) have very little appetite for truth.


https://www.yahoo.com/news/as-covid-cases-fall-in-europe-calls-to-ban-travel-from-america-what-the-eu-got-right-about-controlling-coronavirus-164627926.html
 

[CruiserBruce]

15 hours ago, ldubs said:

 

I don't agree with that we should reduce testing and I know that is what you are responding to.  But I kind of scratched my head on a couple of things.   

 

"More testing means more cases if the disease is spreading".   If the infection rate is stable the count of cases will increase with more tests even though the disease is not spreading.  I think what you mean is a higher rate of positive cases means the disease is spreading.   I agree totally.   

 

"If the disease is not spreading, the percentage of positives out of all tests will actually decrease".  Maybe if you mean by not spreading it is declining.  If the infection rate is stable, then the percent of positives will remain the same.

 

I don't know if it was this thread or another, but someone shared data on current case rates (% positives).  I thought that very important info to support what you are saying.  Anyway, hopefully all will agree that we should ramp up testing so we have the best data available.     

I never said anything about reducing testing, and definitely don't support reducing testing. My point is knowing how to understand statistics and their meaning. I think you get that.