US Citizen - keep an eye on Schengen/EU potential of denying entry due to COVID failuresI

[mom says]

43 minutes ago, evandbob said:

Obesity, diabetes, HBP, cardiac issues and immune system disorders make us Americans more susceptible to this virus.   That explains why we have approx. 25% of the cases and 25% of the deaths while we only consist of 4 and 1/2% of the world's population

Oh, please, just stop. None of that makes a person more susceptible to the virus. What it does is make them more vulnerable to severe symptoms and possible long lasting disability/death. Trying to claim that the US uncontrolled COVID spread is due to obesity and chronic health problems is beyond ludicrous.

[calliopecruiser]

50 minutes ago, SelectSys said:

Amazing the difference in case rates.

You're right!  The difference is astounding, far more than I'd imagined; it's shocking to see it in black and white like this (from the linked article): " The primary benchmark is the EU's average number of new infections per 100,000 people over the past two weeks. For the EU, that number is 16. For the US, it's 107."

[ilikeanswers]

51 minutes ago, SelectSys said:

Millions of US tourists visit countries in the bloc each year. As travel demand recovers and Americans seek to venture abroad again — and as economies normally reliant on tourism seek to curb the fallout from the pandemic — the exclusion of a large and lucrative group of tourists would be damaging."

 

I would disagree with the article on this statement. I don't think United States are the biggest market when it comes to tourism in Europe. I remember reading an article about Greece where they were desperate create a travel corridor to Germany because that was their biggest market. In my experience travelling in Europe the only time I came across large numbers of Americans are at the the big tourist destinations, places you could say have an over tourism problem. The majority of Europe it is other Europeans that fill the market. Lots of places don't even have English signage since that is how few English speakers visit. So I don't think European tourism will be that impacted by a lack of tourists from the USA, it is not like Latin America Europe is not that dependant on them. 

[ldubs]

17 minutes ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

I would disagree with the article on this statement. I don't think United States are the biggest market when it comes to tourism in Europe. I remember reading an article about Greece where they were desperate create a travel corridor to Germany because that was their biggest market. In my experience travelling in Europe the only time I came across large numbers of Americans are at the the big tourist destinations, places you could say have an over tourism problem. The majority of Europe it is other Europeans that fill the market. Lots of places don't even have English signage since that is how few English speakers visit. So I don't think European tourism will be that impacted by a lack of tourists from the USA, it is not like Latin America Europe is not that dependant on them. 

 

I don't know what percent of tourists are American.  I would have thought it would be high enough to have a damaging impact.   Anyway, I don't want anyone to have damaging impact from anything so hope your are right.   Frankly, right now I hope US travel dollars stay at home.   

[clo]

49 minutes ago, calliopecruiser said:

You're right!  The difference is astounding, far more than I'd imagined; it's shocking to see it in black and white like this (from the linked article): " The primary benchmark is the EU's average number of new infections per 100,000 people over the past two weeks. For the EU, that number is 16. For the US, it's 107."

Yep. That sure got my attention. And I can't imagine our #s changing quickly. Don't see how it could.

[ilikeanswers]

12 minutes ago, ldubs said:

I don't know what percent of tourists are American.  I would have thought it would be high enough to have a damaging impact.   Anyway, I don't want anyone to have damaging impact from anything so hope your are right.   Frankly, right now I hope US travel dollars stay at home.   

 

Out of curiosity I looked up some numbers. There was one statistic that said about 30 - 40 million Americans visit Europe per year. Which sounds like a lot but spread around Europe and it is not a lot of people per country. Focusing on Greece about 4.5 million Germans visited last year whereas Americans accounted for just under a million visitors.

[pris993]

6 hours ago, Dwight1 said:

I guess the point is on the Celebrity Reflection out of  Rome for 12 days with about 60% Americans onboard  I was quite astounded that each time I went to the ship’s gym (daily) there were at least 100 in attendance I was the lone American there repeatedly as I heard Only German, French, Italian, never English. I think this pretty well illustrates the difference in health and fitness between the two cultures.

I have done many cruises in the Mediterranean over past 30 years. There are a few things that are different on Mediterranean cruise for Americans.   One is the time difference, ones body clock is off and two the ports of call are a major drawn,  many American elect to spend all day in ports of call.  In both cases they may have less need or desire to spend time in the gym.   I did find on sea days often the gym was very full by comparison with Americans.  I glad you are in such good shape.  But I would not think that gives you the right to question the health and well being of others.  I am an American, my DH is from Paris, a naturalized citizen, I don't see much difference between Americans and Europeans from a fitness standpoint.  But may that is because I live in California where fitness is a high priority. 

[clo]

3 minutes ago, pris993 said:

But may that is because I live in California where fitness is a high priority. 

Good point. Although not CA we're only a 'few' miles away. I bet hundreds of people run, bike, walk and more past our house every day. Including those jogging strollers. 

 

Also since I'm a morning person I can't dream of going to a gym in the late afternoon. 🙂 

[cruisemom42]

52 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

 Frankly, right now I hope US travel dollars stay at home.   

 

My travel dollars will stay home, but will remain in my savings account until I can once again travel outside the US. I have no real interest, right now, in traveling in the US. The places I want to visit/spend time in are across the ocean.

[clo]

32 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

My travel dollars will stay home, but will remain in my savings account until I can once again travel outside the US. I have no real interest, right now, in traveling in the US. The places I want to visit/spend time in are across the ocean.

We have a little motor home so we can take off on little trips, along with the dog, to just do something. But, yeah, our money will sit tight. And I'm absolutely solid that intl. travel will be business class or not at all.  LOL. I now have a reason that Bob can't really disagree with   I anticipate perhaps traveling less but better.

[ldubs]

1 hour ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

Out of curiosity I looked up some numbers. There was one statistic that said about 30 - 40 million Americans visit Europe per year. Which sounds like a lot but spread around Europe and it is not a lot of people per country. Focusing on Greece about 4.5 million Germans visited last year whereas Americans accounted for just under a million visitors.

 

Interesting.  I have no idea what the average length of stay is or what the average daily spend is.  Keeping those million folks at home will add a fair chunk of much needed money to our economy.   

[clo]

1 minute ago, ldubs said:

 

Interesting.  I have no idea what the average length of stay is or what the average daily spend is.  Keeping those million folks at home will add a fair chunk of much needed money to our economy.   

Most sincerely asking. Does that mean that you think people have a budget earmarked for travel and that they'll spend it all regardless? TIA.

[ldubs]

2 minutes ago, clo said:

Most sincerely asking. Does that mean that you think people have a budget earmarked for travel and that they'll spend it all regardless? TIA.

 

 I suppose leading questions can be sincere, but you already know the answer. 🤔

 

Some people have travel/vacation budgets.  Some don't.  All will not spend it all regardless.  

   

 

   

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[clo]

1 minute ago, ldubs said:

 

 I suppose leading questions can be sincere, but you already know the answer. 🤔

 

Some people have travel/vacation budgets.  Some don't.  All will not spend it all regardless.  

   

 

   

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Truly not. I can't imagine having a 'budget' and then all things be damned, I'm going to spend it. But I married a person who taught me so much about personal finance. I'm already figuring that every month we don't travel intl. is like money in the bank. And then I fly business class 🙂

[slidergirl]

4 hours ago, clo said:

What I read in WaPo is that it will be reassessed every two weeks. Can't imagine the US situation improving significantly any time soon unfortunately

I can't see it happening any time soon, either.  Things are going up, not down.  With the Fed pulling funding for some of the testing sites and running a propaganda campaign that "Things are much better than they were", and the party in power moving away from COVID and into protecting Confederate statues and dismantling our health care, it's basically going to be up to individual counties and cities doing with they can among themselves.  It's a bad situation.  Even my little podunk county is respiring - our county health dept had to beg our Governor (who never officially shutdown the state and won't back an official statement on masks) to allow our county to make masks mandatory.  

Interesting that I have not seen an official statement from the US about the ban... 

[ldubs]

17 minutes ago, clo said:

Truly not. I can't imagine having a 'budget' and then all things be damned, I'm going to spend it. But I married a person who taught me so much about personal finance. I'm already figuring that every month we don't travel intl. is like money in the bank. And then I fly business class 🙂

 

?? I don't think anyone would imagine that.  

 

I am sure that you understand many of the 40 million who would otherwise be in Europe are likely to spend at home.   And, there are those patriotic people who are purposely spending at home in order to support our country's economy during a time of need.  There is another thread discussing the possibility of a tax incentive for spending travel/vacation money at home.  I like the concept.  

[slidergirl]

3 hours ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

Out of curiosity I looked up some numbers. There was one statistic that said about 30 - 40 million Americans visit Europe per year. Which sounds like a lot but spread around Europe and it is not a lot of people per country. Focusing on Greece about 4.5 million Germans visited last year whereas Americans accounted for just under a million visitors.

You also have to consider physical geography into this.  It's much easier for people already in Europe to travel to somewhere in Europe.  They have the benefit of good transportation systems and generous vacation benefits.  Someone from Rome could sprint away to Munich for a weekend.   Those of us in the US aren't as lucky with accessibility to Europe.  Add in a little cultural geography that many Americans do not desire nor want to stray out of the US for their vacations. 

[ldubs]

3 hours ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

Out of curiosity I looked up some numbers. There was one statistic that said about 30 - 40 million Americans visit Europe per year. Which sounds like a lot but spread around Europe and it is not a lot of people per country. Focusing on Greece about 4.5 million Germans visited last year whereas Americans accounted for just under a million visitors.

 

7 minutes ago, slidergirl said:

You also have to consider physical geography into this.  It's much easier for people already in Europe to travel to somewhere in Europe.  They have the benefit of good transportation systems and generous vacation benefits.  Someone from Rome could sprint away to Munich for a weekend.   Those of us in the US aren't as lucky with accessibility to Europe.  Add in a little cultural geography that many Americans do not desire nor want to stray out of the US for their vacations. 

 

I have to say 40 million American tourists visiting Europe annually seems like a huge number to me.   That losing those would not be a big impact to Europe's  tourist economy boggles the mind.  I'm not being critical,  I just had no idea of the numbers.   This is an eye opener.      

[clo]

25 minutes ago, slidergirl said:

I can't see it happening any time soon, either.

I agree with every word you wrote. Thanks.

[ilikeanswers]

4 hours ago, clo said:

Most sincerely asking. Does that mean that you think people have a budget earmarked for travel and that they'll spend it all regardless? TIA.

 

It is not always about a budget per se it is just we all have our spending habits, and certain people are willing to splurge while other are very frugal and sometimes that is influenced by culture like those who have to bring souvenirs home for the whole family or those who don't have a back packing culture so when they travel they naturally will spend more.

 

4 hours ago, ldubs said:

Interesting.  I have no idea what the average length of stay is or what the average daily spend is.

 

In the Australian tourism industry American tourists are known as big spenders, so I would be surprised if they were more frugal in Europe.

 

2 hours ago, ldubs said:

I have to say 40 million American tourists visiting Europe annually seems like a huge number to me. That losing those would not be a big impact to Europe's  tourist economy boggles the mind.  I'm not being critical, I just had no idea of the numbers. This is an eye opener.      

 

I never meant to imply that it would not force some businesses to tighten the belt but if you compare to Mexico if Americans were banned from travelling there it definitely will not hurt as much. As SliderGirl pointed out because of geography a person in Berlin can have a weekend getaway to Athens and a month later go for a hike in the Norwegian fjords. At the end of the day Europeans can visit more often and more frequently so they will make up a larger chunk of tourism then Americans could ever compete with. They also spread their tourism dollars more around the country. Americans mostly congergated around big ticket places like Paris or Amsterdam, places that generally have an overtourism problem whereas Europeans will go to lesser known cities like Lyon or even stay in a small Italian village, places that are going to be hit much harder by lack of tourism dollar than Paris.

Edited June 27, 2020 by ilikeanswers

[ilikeanswers]

3 hours ago, ldubs said:

I have to say 40 million American tourists visiting Europe annually seems like a huge number to me.   That losing those would not be a big impact to Europe's  tourist economy boggles the mind.  I'm not being critical,  I just had no idea of the numbers.   This is an eye opener.      

 

I just thought to add since you found the numbers interesting perhaps the stats from France will put things in perspective. In 2018 France had 89.4 million visitors that is more than double the American visitors who visit all of Europe. United States citizens only made up 8 million of those vistors.

[SRF]

9 hours ago, ldubs said:

 

 

I have to say 40 million American tourists visiting Europe annually seems like a huge number to me.   That losing those would not be a big impact to Europe's  tourist economy boggles the mind.  I'm not being critical,  I just had no idea of the numbers.   This is an eye opener.      

 

I was in France in summer 2003 for work.

 

France was REELING from the lack of tourism.  It is a huge part of their economy.

 

40 million people, spending how much per person?  $1000 per person means $40 billion in lost revenue.

[ilikeanswers]

9 minutes ago, SRF said:

 

I was in France in summer 2003 for work.

 

France was REELING from the lack of tourism.  It is a huge part of their economy.

 

40 million people, spending how much per person?  $1000 per person means $40 billion in lost revenue.

 

That is 40 million Americans who visited Europe. France only got 8 million American visitors. 2018 the country received total 89.4 m visitors, I think they are alright 😉. 

Edited June 27, 2020 by ilikeanswers

[c-boy]

2 hours ago, K32682 said:

 

Technically correct. It is not chronic obesity that is contributing to the explosion of new COVID19 cases in America.  It is chronic stupidity. 

a flaw in human character has no nationality or boundaries

[donaldsc]

17 hours ago, SelectSys said:

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/europe-travel-ban-americans-eu-coronavirus-final-2020-6

 

Below is the core of the announcement.  Amazing the difference in case rates.  The personal liberty bias - "don't tread on me" - in the US along with the protesting of all varieties certainly leads to an amazing differences:

 

"The safe list will be reviewed every two weeks, and it will include countries with rates of new cases that are the same or lower than the EU's. The primary benchmark is the EU's average number of new infections per 100,000 people over the past two weeks. For the EU, that number is 16. For the US, it's 107.

 

Other criteria for inclusion on the list include the credibility of a country's public-health reporting.

 

Prohibiting American travelers would have significant consequences for the EU. Millions of US tourists visit countries in the bloc each year. As travel demand recovers and Americans seek to venture abroad again — and as economies normally reliant on tourism seek to curb the fallout from the pandemic — the exclusion of a large and lucrative group of tourists would be damaging."

 

Death for Europeans when they catch Covid from infected Americans would be considerably more damaging.

 

DON