Silversea airfare fine print

[milepig]

So sorry if this has been answered, Cruise Critic is very hard to search!

 

For the first time ever, we're doing a booking with Business Class airfare included, since our TA explained why in this case it was a good deal.  On my confirmation for the full cruise I saw this fine print:

 

Business and Premium Economy Class air upgrades are capacity-controlled, apply to international flights and do not apply to U.S. domestic or intra-continental flights within North America, Europe, South America, Asia or Africa, in which case economy class will be substituted. 

 

The mention of “Premium economy Class” as a possibility frightens me, but I think is a generic phrase since it also mentions “upgrades” and we're actually booking Business!! Please tell me that we’ve booking actual Business Class with no possibility of getting Premium Economy instead!! That's a huge difference for Chicago to Singapore! It also sounds like a flight within the US will be economy class?

 

I've asked my TA as well, but you folk often have the full scoop on such things.

Edited June 25, 2020 by milepig

[brimary]

1 hour ago, milepig said:

So sorry if this has been answered, Cruise Critic is very hard to search!

 

For the first time ever, we're doing a booking with Business Class airfare included, since our TA explained why in this case it was a good deal.  On my confirmation for the full cruise I saw this fine print:

 

Business and Premium Economy Class air upgrades are capacity-controlled, apply to international flights and do not apply to U.S. domestic or intra-continental flights within North America, Europe, South America, Asia or Africa, in which case economy class will be substituted. 

 

The mention of “Premium economy Class” as a possibility frightens me, but I think is a generic phrase since it also mentions “upgrades” and we're actually booking Business!! Please tell me that we’ve booking actual Business Class with no possibility of getting Premium Economy instead!! That's a huge difference for Chicago to Singapore! It also sounds like a flight within the US will be economy class?

 

I've asked my TA as well, but you folk often have the full scoop on such things.

Having taken many SS cruises with included Business Class flights we have always received what was offered with our choice of seats made well in advance.Must admit I have never noticed the small print but that is down to me probably placing too much trust in SS! Hope it works out okay for you and you enjoy the experience.

[crusinbanjo]

Mrs Banjo and I have always gotten Business Class when booking air through SS. Like Brimary said, we place too much trust in SS and have not read the fine print.  I don't know about domestic flights, since all of our air purchased with SS has been international.  We will always book domestic ourselves because I think we get better schedules.

 

[milepig]

Thanks to both of you. A domestic leg would be managable but not international!!

[FlyerTalker]

You had best be getting specific flight information, as you may have pitfalls ahead.

 

The devil is in the details.  Note that "intra-continental flights" within both North America AND within Asia would be economy.  Much depends on how SS interprets that statement.

 

From ORD to SIN, there are no non-stops.  So you are going to be connecting through SFO or Tokyo or Taipei or Hong Kong or many other choices.  The catch is that your flight from those international connection points would be intra-Asia.  Would SS substitute a coach seat for that leg or would they go by an interpretation of an overarching "international" itinerary.  I can't say, but it is there for the interpretation.

 

Just as a suggestion, there are two very appealing options that I would suggest if you have any input to SS.  EVA Air has a top-tier business class product that many people aren't aware of.  Non-stop from ORD to Taipei and on to SIN, with excellent hard and soft product.  The second suggestion is to take Qatar through Doha, where you would be able to get the fantastic Q-Suites business class product.  This is widely considered the top business class in the world.  Interestingly, routing via the Middle East is not that much further a flight, with only a 1500 mile increase in distance.  Plus it gives you the opportunity to enjoy the great onboard experience.  And I would stay away from Emirates in business unless you can get A380 equipment (which doesn't fly from ORD) - their 777s are less than top-tier in business.  Finally, I can't recommend UA either, no matter what the routing, as they have instituted some big cuts to onboard service and product.

Edited June 25, 2020 by FlyerTalker

[milepig]

9 minutes ago, FlyerTalker said:

You had best be getting specific flight information, as you may have pitfalls ahead.

 

The devil is in the details.  Note that "intra-continental flights" within both North America AND within Asia would be economy.  Much depends on how SS interprets that statement.

 

From ORD to SIN, there are no non-stops.  So you are going to be connecting through SFO or Tokyo or Taipei or Hong Kong or many other choices.  The catch is that your flight from those international connection points would be intra-Asia.  Would SS substitute a coach seat for that leg or would they go by an interpretation of an overarching "international" itinerary.  I can't say, but it is there for the interpretation.

 

Just as a suggestion, there are two very appealing options that I would suggest if you have any input to SS.  EVA Air has a top-tier business class product that many people aren't aware of.  Non-stop from ORD to Taipei and on to SIN, with excellent hard and soft product.  The second suggestion is to take Qatar through Doha, where you would be able to get the fantastic Q-Suites business class product.  This is widely considered the top business class in the world.  Interestingly, routing via the Middle East is not that much further a flight, with only a 1500 mile increase in distance.  Plus it gives you the opportunity to enjoy the great onboard experience.  And I would stay away from Emirates in business unless you can get A380 equipment (which doesn't fly from ORD) - their 777s are less than top-tier in business.  Finally, I can't recommend UA either, no matter what the routing, as they have instituted some big cuts to onboard service and product.

 

Thanks for the detail. This cruise is a fair bit out - just under 2 years (using up a credit) so too soon to plan specifics, or book anything myself. I was aware of the inter-asia connections, so my hope is that SS would count the entire ticket, so ORD-SIN is one itin and all in Business, and not by each leg.  If my TA doesn't have a firm answer I may decide to cut out the airfare and do it myself, even though the price is good. Some of those inter-asia connections can be long! I wouldn't fly UA international under any circumstances, and especially now,

[FauxNom]

I was told by a silversea agent that you can back out of the air purchase if the flights don't suit your preferences. This far out, it's too early to know if they work for you or not, so you could just hang on and see.  I've never heard of them putting people in flights other than biz class, except maybe if there's a short hop somewhere in the itinerary.

[zigtraveller]

I have always had the opportunity to request specific flights when booking air with SS, so this has ensured that I am happy with the airline, schedule and class of service.  

[milepig]

2 hours ago, zigtraveller said:

I have always had the opportunity to request specific flights when booking air with SS, so this has ensured that I am happy with the airline, schedule and class of service.  

All good to hear. I will be prepared for when it comes time to book. The only time I’ve had economy mixed into itins I’ve book we’re indeed for short hops, usually in cases like a regional jet where there IS no business class. This may be what they’re protecting themselves for. My TA was also encouraging so I’ll just sit back for, oh about 18 months. 

[crusinbanjo]

19 hours ago, FlyerTalker said:

You had best be getting specific flight information, as you may have pitfalls ahead.

 

The devil is in the details.  Note that "intra-continental flights" within both North America AND within Asia would be economy.  Much depends on how SS interprets that statement.

 

From ORD to SIN, there are no non-stops.  So you are going to be connecting through SFO or Tokyo or Taipei or Hong Kong or many other choices.  The catch is that your flight from those international connection points would be intra-Asia.  Would SS substitute a coach seat for that leg or would they go by an interpretation of an overarching "international" itinerary.  I can't say, but it is there for the interpretation.

 

 

On our last trip our flights were Boston to Hong Kong, the Singapore to Boston with a layover in Tokyo.  We were Business class on all flights.  The one thing I will say is that I had insisted on the flights and routes I wanted.  At First I was told that SS could not secure the flights I wanted, but persistence pays off.  The flights I got saved us many hours in the air and hanging around in airports. But back to the topic.  I have never been given an economy seat when I bought Business, excepting for excursions and a few really short flights when there is only one class of service.

[milepig]

4 hours ago, crusinbanjo said:

On our last trip our flights were Boston to Hong Kong, the Singapore to Boston with a layover in Tokyo.  We were Business class on all flights.  The one thing I will say is that I had insisted on the flights and routes I wanted.  At First I was told that SS could not secure the flights I wanted, but persistence pays off.  The flights I got saved us many hours in the air and hanging around in airports. But back to the topic.  I have never been given an economy seat when I bought Business, excepting for excursions and a few really short flights when there is only one class of service.

 

Thanks. Can I ask about the process?  Did SS contact you one day out of the blue saying "these are the flights we propose"? DId they just book them? Did they offer a chance to discuss options first and then make a proposal?  How far out did this all happen? If you used a TA were they involved?

[crusinbanjo]

I don't usually use a TA, I do the bookings myself.  Before I book the cruise, I always look at flights first and go into the process with knowledge of what is available.  Then I start the conversation with my Cruise consultant, (who by now knows I will have flight info ready).  She of course has to go to the Air department with my requests.  Some times they come back and say NO, but every time this has happened, further conversation and paying some deviation fee ends up getting me what I need.  Some times they come up with better options than I can find.  The bottom line is knowledge and persistence, and being willing to tell them, sorry, I can get a better deal on another cruise line.  They don't want to loose the sale and will do whatever is possible, (within reason), to keep you happy and on board. 

[clo]

On 6/25/2020 at 8:59 AM, FlyerTalker said:

Finally, I can't recommend UA either, no matter what the routing, as they have instituted some big cuts to onboard service and product.

On international? Could you please elaborate? TIA.

[FlyerTalker]

36 minutes ago, clo said:

On international? Could you please elaborate? TIA.

 

These were all cuts made before Covid, so it could be even worse now and in near future.

 

 First off, the hyped new Polaris business class is still not fleet-wide.  So even though UA markets it as "Polaris Business Class", you may get the old fore and aft seating.

 

There have been cuts to food and drink service -- wine service, mixed cocktails, snacks and others have either disappeared or down to "on request".  Staffing has been cut back with fewer FAs, so service has suffered.  UA cut back to FAA minimum staffing.   Previously, there was Saks Fifth Avenue bedding, including two pillow, duvet and blanket.  Now, down to blanket and pillow, with a limited number of duvets per flight - again "on request".

 

Much better business class options available across the Pacific, including Singapore, EVA, Cathay, ANA, and China Airlines (Taiwan based - is NOT Air China).  Even some of the equipment on Korean is better than UA (and some is worse - you need to be sure what you get) and JAL is good.  And if you are a mile-prisoner to UA Mileage Plus, know you can credit Singapore, EVA and ANA to your United FF account.   Flying from SFO (since you are in Reno), I would be looking hard at the products on EVA and ANA.

[clo]

14 minutes ago, FlyerTalker said:

 

These were all cuts made before Covid, so it could be even worse now and in near future.

 

 First off, the hyped new Polaris business class is still not fleet-wide.  So even though UA markets it as "Polaris Business Class", you may get the old fore and aft seating.

 

There have been cuts to food and drink service -- wine service, mixed cocktails, snacks and others have either disappeared or down to "on request".  Staffing has been cut back with fewer FAs, so service has suffered.  UA cut back to FAA minimum staffing.   Previously, there was Saks Fifth Avenue bedding, including two pillow, duvet and blanket.  Now, down to blanket and pillow, with a limited number of duvets per flight - again "on request".

 

Much better business class options available across the Pacific, including Singapore, EVA, Cathay, ANA, and China Airlines (Taiwan based - is NOT Air China).  Even some of the equipment on Korean is better than UA (and some is worse - you need to be sure what you get) and JAL is good.  And if you are a mile-prisoner to UA Mileage Plus, know you can credit Singapore, EVA and ANA to your United FF account.   Flying from SFO (since you are in Reno), I would be looking hard at the products on EVA and ANA.

Thanks a ton for this. I'm an info-junkie so the more the merrier. The SS cruise I'm looking at isn't til 10/21 so who knows about anything? Oh and it's the Galapagos so the airlines could be anything at this time.

 

BTW, we paid to upgrade Buenos Aires to Houston in December and it was Polaris J and it was heaven 🙂

[FlyerTalker]

3 minutes ago, clo said:

Thanks a ton for this. I'm an info-junkie so the more the merrier. The SS cruise I'm looking at isn't til 10/21 so who knows about anything? Oh and it's the Galapagos so the airlines could be anything at this time.

 

Be aware that many airlines use a very basic "business class" for flights to northern South America.  For example, American uses a bunch of 737s, where "business" is pretty much just standard domestic first.

[Stumblefoot]

26 minutes ago, FlyerTalker said:

American uses a bunch of 737s, where "business" is pretty much just standard domestic first.

No longer true.  Any AA international flight to South America on a 737 is coded as Premium Economy today, not Business.

[clo]

22 hours ago, Stumblefoot said:

No longer true.  Any AA international flight to South America on a 737 is coded as Premium Economy today, not Business.

I just looked and the flights from DFW and MIA are only between 4 and 5-1/2 hours. I wouldn't pay any extra for such 'short' flights anywhere.