EU Travel Ban

[flossie009]

21 minutes ago, mrlevin said:

how are they calculating the infection rate of 16 per 100,000 or less?

No idea, sorry

[flossie009]

8 hours ago, pappy1022 said:

I hope that the EU is not doing this to reciprocate.

As well as the health considerations it would be naive to think that reciprocity will not be a factor when reinstating travel arrangements between countries.

 

IMO, operating cruises successfully, including getting passengers & crew to/from the ships, is going to be very difficult until many more countries are comfortable in relaxing the border restrictions & port closures that were introduced to control the spread of the virus.

 

[Isklaar]

 

There have been complex rules about travel within the EU for the past few months with some countries setting their own border controls and not permitting free movement across their borders even to EU/EEA/UK citizens.

 

Many of the EU nations are now beginning to ease the restrictions they had in place, with conditions. 

This (Official) link may be explanatory. The link takes you to Italy, but Greece is an interesting example.

 

https://reopen.europa.eu/en/map/ITA

 

Edited to add that the information in the link is accurate until midnight on 30 June 2020. The new policies come into effect from 1st July so there will be changes. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 30, 2020 by Isklaar

[Dolebludger]

4 hours ago, howiefrommd said:

Interesting you bring this up, I was listening to an infectious disease doc who said the same thing.  The only concerning part was that he stated we do not have a vaccine of norovirus or HIV, and look at how long those have been around. 
 

Norovirus and HIV pose different risks than Covid 19. Norovirus seems to have mostly mutated away. Covid shows no signs of doing the same. As to HIV, it was identified early on that it could be spread only by certain types of avoidable behavior. Covid apparently spreads by breathing in crowded areas. Not an easy thing to avoid. While there is no HIV vaccination, there are some very effective treatments, that will even prevent the infected person from spreading it, regardless of behavior. There are no such treatments for Covid. And I wish there were.

[Caroldoll]

On 6/29/2020 at 4:08 AM, tubeamps said:

Not surprised at all. I don’t know how any cruise line could plan an itinerary under these conditions.

While I would expect periodic adjustments to these lists I wouldn’t expect a turn around for US tourists until we get our COVID 19 situation under control.

 

And so, what would you do to control this???  We have done everything possible here in California.  Short of a vaccination, what do you think?

[toseaornottosea]

21 minutes ago, Caroldoll said:

And so, what would you do to control this???  We have done everything possible here in California.  Short of a vaccination, what do you think?

 

I beg to differ. "We have done everything possible here in California."  Have you not seen the news coverage of the crowds on the beaches since the beaches opened and the large gatherings in and around bars and clubs recently?  I will not be surprised if Gov. Newsom re-issues very stringent restrictions soon.  

[Caroldoll]

6 hours ago, toseaornottosea said:

 

I beg to differ. "We have done everything possible here in California."  Have you not seen the news coverage of the crowds on the beaches since the beaches opened and the large gatherings in and around bars and clubs recently?  I will not be surprised if Gov. Newsom re-issues very stringent restrictions soon.  

If you are looking at pictures of the beach, they were photoshopped.  People were not that close together.  Also, some beaches were closed by Newsom and some left open, so everyone trekked to the open ones.  Most of the cocktail lounges where I go are not full and they are doing social distancing.  I would suggest that he focus on the few where the yuppie crowd and millennials where they are not.  It is not fair to punish everyone for a few.

 

Additionally the numbers are warped.  My husband had cancer and they coded his admitting History and Physical as possible Covid.  He did not have Covid and had no symptoms of Covid.  Living proof that the numbers have been "cooked".  The hospitals get more if they put possible Covid.

[tubeamps]

Caroldoll, 

 As a nation we needed a coordinated response on the national level. Leaving the 50 states to devise their own rules and plans is somewhere beyond stupid.

 

and that’s where we are today

[mrlevin]

29 minutes ago, tubeamps said:

Caroldoll, 

 As a nation we needed a coordinated response on the national level. Leaving the 50 states to devise their own rules and plans is somewhere beyond stupid.

 

and that’s where we are today

 

We have always been a Federal Republic where all powers not granted to the Federal Government are held by the states; that is why the 10th Amendment is so critical.  We have 50 governors and 50 State Departments of Health and thousands of County Health Departments.  What is the right decision in New York City may not be the right decision in Bozeman Montana.  Hawaii has done so well by instituting a quarantine; any other states beside Hawaii and Alaska able to do that?

 

There is not a homogenous United States of America, we are all different with different philosophies on life.  

 

Please, let's stay away from the political posts; this is a cruising site.

 

Marc

[pappy1022]

8 hours ago, toseaornottosea said:

 

"We have done everything possible here in California."  

I can't say what is true and what isn't true in California. Here in Austin Texas we have seen COVID-19 cases explode and the hospitalization rate has also sky rocketed and Houston's main hospital ICU is now full. Contact tracing has consistently pointed to bars and river floating where large groups of people congregated in close quarters. They violated the social distancing and face mask guidelines for reopening. The majority of cases are now in the 20-30 age group. Most have mild symptoms but some have to be hospitalized. They all go home or to work and spread the virus like a wild fire. Even though the news would have you believe that it has nothing to do with the protests and riots, logic tells you otherwise. In Austin, the case trackers cannot ask whether you participated in a protest so we can't trace those cases. In a suburb of Austin, 300 kids got together for a pong tournament, one was not feeling well but hadn't received his COVID test back until the day after the large gathering. You guessed it, it came back positive and now several other kids at that party have tested positive. My point is that we can debate how this outbreak could have been handled better by federal and state officials but it comes down to individual choices. We were all told what we had to do to remain safe and to slow down the spread. Some did what they were supposed to do and others ignored the advice. My immediate and extended family followed the advice and no one got sick. We are at another critical point where we all have to make a choice to do the right thing not only for ourselves but more so for the people we come in contact with every day. COVID-19 is not going away on it's own. It's up to us to manage this beast until vaccines and treatments come along.

[pappy1022]

15 minutes ago, mrlevin said:

 

We have always been a Federal Republic where all powers not granted to the Federal Government are held by the states; that is why the 10th Amendment is so critical.  We have 50 governors and 50 State Departments of Health and thousands of County Health Departments.  What is the right decision in New York City may not be the right decision in Bozeman Montana.  Hawaii has done so well by instituting a quarantine; any other states beside Hawaii and Alaska able to do that?

 

There is not a homogenous United States of America, we are all different with different philosophies on life.  

 

Please, let's stay away from the political posts; this is a cruising site.

 

Marc

AMEN.

[RJ2002]

6 hours ago, Caroldoll said:

If you are looking at pictures of the beach, they were photoshopped.  People were not that close together.  

 

I had not read that the beach photos were photoshopped.  What is your source?  I did find this OC Register story explaining one of their photos.  Perhaps this is what you are talking about?

 

https://www.ocregister.com/2020/04/28/oc-beach-photo-real-news-sometimes-stranger-than-fakenews/

 

12 hours ago, toseaornottosea said:

 

I beg to differ. "We have done everything possible here in California."  Have you not seen the news coverage of the crowds on the beaches since the beaches opened and the large gatherings in and around bars and clubs recently?  I will not be surprised if Gov. Newsom re-issues very stringent restrictions soon.  

 

Yep, the Governor is apparently announcing additional measures today.  As Caroldoll suggested, hopefully the additional restrictions can be targeted and not broad-brush.  Totally understand the comment that the situation at a nice cocktail lounge is quite different than a late night dance club. 

 

The EU's decision on restricting US travels is not surprising.  Hopefully this most recent uptick can be turned around quickly and we can demonstrate that we are on the downward path.  The sooner that happens, the sooner we're all able to more widely travel, and hopefully cruise!!!

[jeb_bud]

5 hours ago, tubeamps said:

Caroldoll, 

 As a nation we needed a coordinated response on the national level. Leaving the 50 states to devise their own rules and plans is somewhere beyond stupid.

 

and that’s where we are today

Really. You think Manhattan and Laramie should be in the same jurisdiction?  That’s beyond beyond stupid. 

[greykitty]

FWIW, Wyoming pausing the easing of restrictions.  I will say some states seem to be learning from the experiences of other states, IMO.  

 

https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Amid-surge-Wyoming-hits-pause-on-easing-COVID-19-15374957.php

 

https://www.laramieboomerang.com/news/coronavirus-health-orders-remain-unchanged/article_08a1e7eb-92be-53be-a17a-9f6d5441ec69.html

[tubeamps]

1 hour ago, jeb_bud said:

Really. You think Manhattan and Laramie should be in the same jurisdiction?  That’s beyond beyond stupid. 

I didn’t say that,  try reading it again.

[Dolebludger]

Two weeks ago our Colorado Governor opened bars and night clubs with restrictions. But yesterday he shut then down for another 30 days. None of this applies to restaurants that  also serve alcohol.  Our restaurants are properly distanced and masks are required except when seated for eating or drinking. Most locals abide by the mask requirements in stores and places where distancing is not always possible. Still, because of a moderate up-tick in cases and a moderate tourist influx, our Governor took this action. 

[Wendy The Wanderer]

7 minutes ago, Dolebludger said:

Our restaurants are properly distanced and masks are required except when seated for eating or drinking.

 

What is "properly"?  Are capacities limited?  We here in Toronto are at what's called "phase 2".  Restaurants with patios can operate with a tons of restrictions, low capacities, masks except with sitting, contact-tracing info taken, etc.  Is that what Colorado is doing?

Edited July 1, 2020 by Wendy The Wanderer

[flossie009]

Although countries in the EU are starting to relax their border controls to enable travel & tourism from countries regarded as "safe", it appears that welcoming cruise ships may take a little longer:

https://www.marinelink.com/news/spain-maintains-ban-cruise-ships-even-479735

[Dolebludger]

2 hours ago, Wendy The Wanderer said:

 

What is "properly"?  Are capacities limited?  We here in Toronto are at what's called "phase 2".  Restaurants with patios can operate with a tons of restrictions, low capacities, masks except with sitting, contact-tracing info taken, etc.  Is that what Colorado is doing?

 

 

To explain, all seating must be distanced 6'. That limits capacity. Upgraded cleaning and disinfection requirements. All employees must wear masks at all times. Customers must wear masks except when seated. That means when entering, going to the washroom, or any other movement. The rules apply to indoor and outdoor seating areas. Most restaurants here have always had outdoor seating open when weather permitts. In addition, in our town, the city has allowed restaurants to add to ourdoor seating. This was done by closing the street lane in front of restaurants and blocking it with barriers.

[Got2Cruise]

9 hours ago, jeb_bud said:

Really. You think Manhattan and Laramie should be in the same jurisdiction?  That’s beyond beyond stupid. 

Since we are one nation, all decisions for opening and closing the states should have been done according to CDC guidelines.  Based on science.  We all are in this together. I don’t understand what politics or personal preferences have to do with public health. 

 

 

 

 

[toseaornottosea]

17 hours ago, Caroldoll said:

If you are looking at pictures of the beach, they were photoshopped.  People were not that close together.  Also, some beaches were closed by Newsom and some left open, so everyone trekked to the open ones. 

 

So all of the news videos on tv were photoshopped.  Don't think so.  And everyone trekked to the open beaches.  You bet they did and they did not wear masks and they did not social distance and that's one of the reasons Newsom issued new guidelines today due to unacceptable increases in Covid-19 cases.

[cruiseluv]

1 hour ago, Got2Cruise said:

Since we are one nation, all decisions for opening and closing the states should have been done according to CDC guidelines.  Based on science.  We all are in this together. I don’t understand what politics or personal preferences have to do with public health. 

 

 

 

 

“Science”?? The experts as Dr Fauci have been all over the place. The CDC has been a joke, so I’ll take common sense over any of these mandates. 

[cruiseluv]

53 minutes ago, toseaornottosea said:

 

So all of the news videos on tv were photoshopped.  Don't think so.  And everyone trekked to the open beaches.  You bet they did and they did not wear masks and they did not social distance and that's one of the reasons Newsom issued new guidelines today due to unacceptable increases in Covid-19 cases.

Beaches trigger you?? What about “peaceful protests” ( with thousands of bodies rubbing together) , and riots? Do those trigger you, or not so much?

[GOARMY]

O.K.  Everyone STOP--for just a moment. 

 

Recent back-and-back and back and forth comments on this Thread are akin to that frog who, upon reacting to the heat being turned-up just a degree or so on the stove, reacts too-late to reality.  

 

For the sake of many of us who have actually been in the Heat--whether WWII, Korea, Vietnam, Iraq (Wars I and II), and Afghanistan--

 

Keep this civil.  

 

If not, request CC Administrator discontinue this Thread. 

 

Respectfully, 

 

GOARMY!

 

 

 

[toseaornottosea]

45 minutes ago, cruiseluv said:

The CDC has been a joke, so I’ll take common sense over any of these mandates. 

And what does common sense tell you?