Pullmantur's Ships Will Be Returned To Royal Caribbean

[Dennis#1]

On 6/30/2020 at 11:03 AM, SRF said:

Hmm, I wonder if this will affect the "sale" of Grandeur??

 

 

On 6/30/2020 at 11:12 AM, twangster said:

 

I suspect so. 

 

That leads to the next question.  Will they still move Enchantment to Baltimore if the sale of Grandeur falls through?  

Sure hope RCCL keeps the Grandeur.  Been on her many times, and have had a great cruise on each of them.

[twangster]

2 hours ago, Dennis#1 said:

 

Sure hope RCCL keeps the Grandeur.  Been on her many times, and have had a great cruise on each of them.

 

Some speculation that Royal is using this as an excuse of sorts to purge the old ships then as Pullmantur emerges from bankruptcy supply them with new (old) ships like Grandeur to relaunch the cruise line in it's reorganized form.   Time will tell.

[LXA350]

1 hour ago, twangster said:

 

Some speculation that Royal is using this as an excuse of sorts to purge the old ships then as Pullmantur emerges from bankruptcy supply them with new (old) ships like Grandeur to relaunch the cruise line in it's reorganized form.   Time will tell.

 

This is a likely scenario, they will form a cloned "Pullman" cruise line and relaunch the brand with it's debits written off.

[mo&fran]

I am sure Royal won't be bringing the ships back here, given what they went through with Empress.

[gatour]

On 7/1/2020 at 9:35 AM, bobmacliberty said:

 

I received a press release from the University of Cincinnati.  They are part of one of the Vaccine tests.  It all sounds great but there's a paragraph that gave me pause:

 

Patients who participate in the blinded, randomized, placebo-controlled study will receive either the vaccine, or a placebo, in two injections. The vaccine is incorporated into the patient’s cells, which should begin producing a viral antigen to which the immune system can respond. Patients will keep a daily electronic diary of their symptoms, and also participate in telehealth and clinic visits with UC Health clinicians over a two-year period.

 

I don't know if the 2 year period mentioned means that the vaccine would not be available for 2 years, or if it could be available earlier but the test would continue to run for 2 years.  I hope it's the later.

 

And a minor point...Dr. Fauci is not part of the CDC.  He's the Director of the NIAID.  

I think you meant the "former" vs "latter".  Over the years it took me time to figure out former vs latter.

 

I think it is the former, if the short term trials show promise, they will start administrating them ASAP while the 2 year trials are on-going.

 

The interesting thing I read today, is that if the initial trials are successful.  The initial doses will be going to front line workers as well they should.  It may take a while to have the vaccine to the general public, even if they have pre-produced vaccines. 

Edited July 2, 2020 by gatour

[Biker19]

Sovereign and Monarch are together north of Malta, while Horizon just arrived at the south end of Suez (on her way back from India).

[twangster]

It seems among the electronics they stripped off Monarch it's left them unsure of a course to Turkey. 🤣

 

Monarch June 30

 

 

Monarch July 2, About face!

 

 

Sovereign July 2, slowing to 2.3 knots.

 

 

Position last updated for both minutes ago.

[pcur]

On 7/1/2020 at 6:35 AM, bobmacliberty said:

 

I received a press release from the University of Cincinnati.  They are part of one of the Vaccine tests.  It all sounds great but there's a paragraph that gave me pause:

 

Patients who participate in the blinded, randomized, placebo-controlled study will receive either the vaccine, or a placebo, in two injections. The vaccine is incorporated into the patient’s cells, which should begin producing a viral antigen to which the immune system can respond. Patients will keep a daily electronic diary of their symptoms, and also participate in telehealth and clinic visits with UC Health clinicians over a two-year period.

 

I don't know if the 2 year period mentioned means that the vaccine would not be available for 2 years, or if it could be available earlier but the test would continue to run for 2 years.  I hope it's the later.

 

And a minor point...Dr. Fauci is not part of the CDC.  He's the Director of the NIAID.  

From what I've read, antibodies are tracked in vaccine studies over a period of 2 years (or more) to see how long the antibodies stay active.

[ipeeinthepool]

On 6/30/2020 at 2:01 PM, chengkp75 said:

It is quite common in the maritime industry that each ship is owned by a separate subsidiary, for liability reasons.  If you search DNV for the "owner" of Grandeur, RCL Cruises, Ltd, you'll find that Grandeur is the only ship "owned" by that company, though they "manage" 12 RCI ships, including Quantum.

So how does this work for all of the loans that the cruise lines are getting using the ships as collateral? If RCL doesn't really own the ships on paper, how can they get the loans?

[mpk]

On 6/30/2020 at 9:22 AM, MADflyer said:

The company being taken into bankruptcy in Spain is the travel agency that sells the cruises on the Pullmantur Cruise Ships, Pullmantur SA.  This agency was owned by Pullmantur Holding together with RCL. 

 

The ownership information for each ship is shown on the ship register website at Det Norske Veritas. 

 

I am no expert in this area but it is interesting to note how each ship is registered. Quantum is owned by "Quantum of the Seas Inc" and Sovereign is owned by Pullmantur Cruises Sovereign Ltd. and not by the now bankrupt Pullmantur SA nor directly by Pullmantur Holdings. 

 

Interestingly, Grandeur is owned by RCL directly at the moment and the planned move to Pullmantur would be cancelled. 

 

I hope somebody at RCI has a nice big wall where they can keep a diagram of all the similarly named holding companies that are actually different.

 

And a big "Do NOT Erase" sign on it.

[Biker19]

8 hours ago, twangster said:

It seems among the electronics they stripped off Monarch it's left them unsure of a course to Turkey

The news about the ships heading to the scrap yard may have been a bit premature - maybe they are waiting for Horizon to show up (which is sailing through the Suez).

[chengkp75]

8 hours ago, ipeeinthepool said:

So how does this work for all of the loans that the cruise lines are getting using the ships as collateral? If RCL doesn't really own the ships on paper, how can they get the loans?

The subsidiary owns the ship and the cruise line owns the subsidiary.  The reason for the subsidiaries is that under maritime law, claims against damages caused by one ship can only be limited to the assets of the owning company, so limited to just the value of the one ship.  The only asset able to be seized by a creditor is the one ship.  However, the cruise line raises cash posting several ships as collateral, via their subsidiaries, since this is a voluntary act on the company's part.

[chengkp75]

2 hours ago, Biker19 said:

The news about the ships heading to the scrap yard may have been a bit premature - maybe they are waiting for Horizon to show up (which is sailing through the Suez).

Turkish scrap prices are about 60% of the prices available in Bangladesh, Pakistan, and India.  Bangladesh and Pakistan are seeing an improvement in scrap prices, while India and Turkey are seeing a decline.  The company may be weighing the cost of transit to Bangladesh and higher scrap prices (along with the cost of Suez transit) against the lower cost and lower rate in Turkey.

[notmyrealnameoremail]

14 hours ago, gatour said:

I think you meant the "former" vs "latter".  Over the years it took me time to figure out former vs latter.

 

I think it is the former, if the short term trials show promise, they will start administrating them ASAP while the 2 year trials are on-going.

 

The interesting thing I read today, is that if the initial trials are successful.  The initial doses will be going to front line workers as well they should.  It may take a while to have the vaccine to the general public, even if they have pre-produced vaccines. 

 

Uh, I think the OP had it right, but spelled latter incorrectly.

 

https://www.grammarly.com/blog/former-vs-latter/#:~:text=The terms former and latter,(or last) of them.

[Biker19]

2 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

The company may be weighing the cost of transit to Bangladesh and higher scrap prices (along with the cost of Suez transit) against the lower cost and lower rate in Turkey.

In which case it makes no sense to scrap Horizon outside of Turkey since she just came back through the Suez from India.

[twangster]

Monarch is doing laps. 

  

[ipeeinthepool]

34 minutes ago, twangster said:

Monarch is doing laps. 

  

 

Maybe she's burning up fuel before going to the scrap yard

[bobmacliberty]

16 hours ago, gatour said:

I think you meant the "former" vs "latter".  Over the years it took me time to figure out former vs latter.

 

Thanks for catching my spelling mistake.

[Cruising89143]

https://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/23180-pullmantur-fleet-will-likely-be-scrapped.html

[twangster]

2 hours ago, ipeeinthepool said:

 

Maybe she's burning up fuel before going to the scrap yard

 

You'd think she would get close then burn through fuel.  What do I know?  Nothing.  

[bigeck]

3 hours ago, ipeeinthepool said:

 

Maybe she's burning up fuel before going to the scrap yard

Maybe just fishing. Catching dinner

[Hoopster95]

7 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Turkish scrap prices are about 60% of the prices available in Bangladesh, Pakistan, and India.  Bangladesh and Pakistan are seeing an improvement in scrap prices, while India and Turkey are seeing a decline.  The company may be weighing the cost of transit to Bangladesh and higher scrap prices (along with the cost of Suez transit) against the lower cost and lower rate in Turkey.

 

4 hours ago, Biker19 said:

In which case it makes no sense to scrap Horizon outside of Turkey since she just came back through the Suez from India.

 

Super interesting.... thanks again cheng for your commentary and Biker /twangster for tracking this

[orville99]

On ‎6‎/‎30‎/‎2020 at 10:51 AM, twangster said:

Surprised this hasn't been mentioned yet.  Rumors say Royal is claiming Sovereign and Monarch.

 

https://www.elrincondeltripulante.xyz/2020/06/pullmanturs-ships-will-be-returned-to.html?m=1&fbclid=IwAR0MYsaR5Raqmp2t5-p398gYzs8R10zI5fhSdM617K8NKrh5W-uThfzs2hM

 

Can anyone confirm if the ships were rented or financed by Royal to Pullmantur?  If so I can see why Royal would claim them so the bankruptcy courts don't.

The link you posted contains a trojan virus...

[SRF]

On 7/2/2020 at 7:31 PM, pcur said:

From what I've read, antibodies are tracked in vaccine studies over a period of 2 years (or more) to see how long the antibodies stay active.

 

Yes, and even longer.

 

But the vaccine can be released before the full run of the test.

 

 

[LXA350]

On 7/2/2020 at 11:52 PM, Biker19 said:

Sovereign and Monarch are together north of Malta, while Horizon just arrived at the south end of Suez (on her way back from India).

 

Maybe Empress and Majesty will join the partyeventually as well and they will all head to the scrape yard together.