Once sailing resumes, do you think an entire ship would be "quarantined" for a + and not allowed to come into home port?

[navybankerteacher]

13 minutes ago, Elaine5715 said:

They were held inside the country.  US Citizens were permitted to enter the US, not refused entry and forced to remain on a cruise ship

You are not able to grasp the notion that a foreign-flagged ship carrying highly contagious passengers might not be granted permission to land ?

 

[cruisemom42]

27 minutes ago, Elaine5715 said:

They were held inside the country.  US Citizens were permitted to enter the US, not refused entry and forced to remain on a cruise ship

 

What about the Zaandam and Rotterdam who arrived off the coast of Florida with coronavirus aboard -- they were nearly denied the right to dock in either Miami or Port Everglades by the Florida governor, and there was no question that he could, merely one of whether he would. Only the impassioned appeals directly from HAL's CEO and HAL's willingness to agree to extraordinary terms to get passengers off the ships and back home tipped the scales of opinion and enabled them to dock.

 

At the time, the US Coast Guard issued a notice that all foreign-flagged cruise ships carrying more than 50 people must be prepared to care for any sick passengers and crew members at sea for an “indefinite period of time” or to seek medical assistance from other countries during the coronavirus pandemic.

 

Shortly thereafter the "No Sail" order went into effect -- but as far as I know, the Coast Guard statement has not been rescinded. 

 

 

[ldubs]

8 hours ago, chipmaster said:

 

Forget cruising this holiday and thru early 2021 for any US based or US citiizen's elsewhere given the mess here. 

 

We had a chance to contain it, but alas we squandered it on the whims of “It’s going to disappear. One day, it’s like a miracle, it will disappear.”

Now it is really out like a wildflire that will only end when it burns itself out, the destruction in its wake will be hopefully not too much.

 

https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/coronavirus/cdc-says-way-too-much-virus-in-us-to-control-pandemic-as-cases-surge/2388057/

 

That is a discouraging message from the CDC.  I can see some folks shrugging their shoulders thinking nothing they do will make a difference.   

[clo]

18 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

all foreign-flagged cruise ships

And that's pretty much all the main ones, right?

[navybankerteacher]

11 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

That is a discouraging message from the CDC.  I can see some folks shrugging their shoulders thinking nothing they do will make a difference.   

It may be that the spread is now too wide to contain.  But, even if it had not reached that point, the mindless refusal of government officials to impose hard controls still jeopardize effective efforts.  

 

Failing to impose, and enforce, control methods such as wearing masks and maintaining effective social distancing — EVEN NOW - leaves little room for hope.

[clo]

13 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

That is a discouraging message from the CDC.  I can see some folks shrugging their shoulders thinking nothing they do will make a difference.   

Well, I've read that an 'executive order' to mandate masks would make a huge difference. Also close down bars and other 'inside' venues which seems to be the biggest single issue. It's clear that too many people in the US refuse to do the right thing unless they're forced to. My anger grows daily. And, honestly, at this point do people really care about cruising compared to 'just' living?

[navybankerteacher]

3 minutes ago, clo said:

And that's pretty much all the main ones, right?

Precisely.  

[sverigecruiser]

8 hours ago, Hlitner said:

Folks will often say what they "feel" rather then rely on facts.  Here are the facts.  Ports have not generally allowed ships to dock with COVID-19 cases.  In a few cases when that has happened it was after significant delays and was generally accompanied by a 14 day quarantine of everyone on the ship.  Will this change within a few months?  I think the evidence is actually to the contrary.  More and more countries have made it clear they do not want cruise ships and the cruise industry has yet to release any proposal of how to deal with cases aboard.  

 

The OP didn't asked about facts. The question was what we think.

 

Ports did not allow ships to dock in the beginning of the pandemi but it's very different now when it's spread everywhere. The cruiselines must know where they can dock if they have a case onboard, I think. Before they know how to handle it there won't be any cruises, I think. (And hope!)

 

I can't imagine any situation when the authorities here should deny a ship to dock. At least not if the disembarkation was planned to be in a Swedish port. It should defenitely be a political suicide for any politician to suggest that a cruiseship with Swedish citizens shouldn't be allowed to dock.

[Hlitner]

5 hours ago, sverigecruiser said:

 

The OP didn't asked about facts. The question was what we think.

 

Ports did not allow ships to dock in the beginning of the pandemi but it's very different now when it's spread everywhere. The cruiselines must know where they can dock if they have a case onboard, I think. Before they know how to handle it there won't be any cruises, I think. (And hope!)

 

I can't imagine any situation when the authorities here should deny a ship to dock. At least not if the disembarkation was planned to be in a Swedish port. It should defenitely be a political suicide for any politician to suggest that a cruiseship with Swedish citizens shouldn't be allowed to dock.

Your country has handled COVID-19 somewhat differently then most of the EU and the USA.  Even if a cruise line decided to shift their embarkation port to Helsinki, where would they go?  In fact, at the moment the EU has banned folks from the USA so flights over the North Atlantic will be in short supply.   Will this soon change?  Perhaps or perhaps not.  But for now the most likely scenario is that there will little to no cruising in Europe, Asia and the Americas during the remainder of 2020.  We have an April 2021 booking on a cruise from Yokohama to Vancouver and now have strong doubts that this cruise will ever happen.  There is little incentive for ports in Asia to open-up for cruises until there is a safe/effective vaccine that they can require as a condition of entry.  

 

We have another complication here in the USA.  A majority of cruises from our country embark at Florida ports and that State is currently experiencing a surge in COVID-19 cases.   Most cruisers embarking from FL ports choose to fly-in 1 or more days early and that puts them at even greater COVID-19 risk.  And our "experts" have recently been predicting more doom and gloom from this darn virus in the months to come.

 

Your comment about "facts" made me laugh because of oft used comment that we should not let facts get in the way of conjecture.   I worked in the healthcare industry for much of my life and got into this strange habit of allowing facts to slip into my little ole mind.

 

Hank

[ontheweb]

8 hours ago, clo said:

And that's pretty much all the main ones, right?

That should be all of them except for the one NCL ship in Hawaii.

[K32682]

Even in high outbreak areas like Texas and Florida the authorities would not want to add more positive cases to an already growing problem.  If a passenger or crew member tested positive the prudent course for people on shore is to quarantine the ship . There is no reason for them to accommodate a boatload of potentially infected people who took the risk of cruising during an active pandemic. 

[cruisemom42]

6 hours ago, sverigecruiser said:

 

The OP didn't asked about facts. The question was what we think.

 

 

While I somewhat agree with you that cruise lines won't start sailing until there is a plan in place to deal with these things, some of the practices and experiences of cruisers on ships with actual or suspected coronavirus in early 2020 also make me suspicious that lines will seem more positive about their plans than those plans warrant.

 

The thought of being quarantined on board a ship and being denied access to ports is a huge dis-incentive to me to book a cruise again until I see "in practice" how well any plans might work. You seem to have faith in the Swedish authorities, but would you have the same faith on a Caribbean cruise coming back to the US with potential covid cases onboard?

 

So I guess to the OP's question:  what I "think" would be -- yes, it could happen. And I wouldn't be in a rush to be among the first passengers once cruising starts up again.

[Charles4515]

Even in high outbreak areas like Texas and Florida the authorities would not want to add more positive cases to an already growing problem.  If a passenger or crew member tested positive the prudent course for people on shore is to quarantine the ship . There is no reason for them to accommodate a boatload of potentially infected people who took the risk of cruising during an active pandemic. 

 

I doubt that Texas and Florida would want infected passengers on shore who would potentially have to be accommodated in hospitals.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Elaine5715]

10 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

What about the Zaandam and Rotterdam who arrived off the coast of Florida with coronavirus aboard -- they were nearly denied the right to dock in either Miami or Port Everglades by the Florida governor, and there was no question that he could, merely one of whether he would. Only the impassioned appeals directly from HAL's CEO and HAL's willingness to agree to extraordinary terms to get passengers off the ships and back home tipped the scales of opinion and enabled them to dock.

 

At the time, the US Coast Guard issued a notice that all foreign-flagged cruise ships carrying more than 50 people must be prepared to care for any sick passengers and crew members at sea for an “indefinite period of time” or to seek medical assistance from other countries during the coronavirus pandemic.

 

Shortly thereafter the "No Sail" order went into effect -- but as far as I know, the Coast Guard statement has not been rescinded. 

 

 

Neither of those ships were scheduled to dock in Florida and the Florida Governor had a legitimate concern that all of the crew and non US guests would proceed directly to the Florida hospital system and their cost of care placed on Florida. Most of those guests were not US and the US does/did have the ability to denied entry to non US Citizens.  Even in the original response by the Governor, he did say "except for Florida residents" but that was usually dropped by the media to continue their narrative of "cruise ship bad".  The Feds control the border not the state anyways.   

[Elaine5715]

1 hour ago, K32682 said:

Even in high outbreak areas like Texas and Florida the authorities would not want to add more positive cases to an already growing problem.  If a passenger or crew member tested positive the prudent course for people on shore is to quarantine the ship . There is no reason for them to accommodate a boatload of potentially infected people who took the risk of cruising during an active pandemic. 

Except those same state are accepting flights from other countries and states.  

[sverigecruiser]

1 hour ago, Hlitner said:

Your country has handled COVID-19 somewhat differently then most of the EU and the USA.  Even if a cruise line decided to shift their embarkation port to Helsinki, where would they go?  In fact, at the moment the EU has banned folks from the USA so flights over the North Atlantic will be in short supply.   Will this soon change?  Perhaps or perhaps not.  But for now the most likely scenario is that there will little to no cruising in Europe, Asia and the Americas during the remainder of 2020.  We have an April 2021 booking on a cruise from Yokohama to Vancouver and now have strong doubts that this cruise will ever happen.  There is little incentive for ports in Asia to open-up for cruises until there is a safe/effective vaccine that they can require as a condition of entry.  

 

 

The situation right now is not important because there are no cruises right now! I doubt that there will be any international cruises in Europe as long as people from the USA are banned in the EU. It's not that they can't fill the ships with Europeans but as long as Americans are bannad the situation is not under control so there will be no cruises, I think

 

Why should they move the embarkation to Finland?

[sverigecruiser]

2 hours ago, Hlitner said:

 

We have another complication here in the USA.  A majority of cruises from our country embark at Florida ports and that State is currently experiencing a surge in COVID-19 cases.   Most cruisers embarking from FL ports choose to fly-in 1 or more days early and that puts them at even greater COVID-19 risk.  And our "experts" have recently been predicting more doom and gloom from this darn virus in the months to come.

 

 

I don't think that there will be any cruises to or from Florida as long as things are the way they are now.

[Joebucks]

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/total-deaths-and-cases-covid-19?time=2020-04-01..&country=~USA

 

Amazing that "infections are surging" yet deaths are staying stagnant. Of course remember, it cannot be because of increased testing. There is also smaller percentages of people showing up positive vs tests taken than it was in say April. All data points to we are just catching more cases than we did before, and it is far less deadly than we thought.

 

Honestly, there is no "need" to quarantine a ship for 14 days. It doesn't mean it won't happen though. The panic is worse than the actual virus. All it takes is a few reported cases and a panicked company to quarantine a ship for 2 weeks.

[ed01106]

16 minutes ago, Joebucks said:

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/total-deaths-and-cases-covid-19?time=2020-04-01..&country=~USA

 

Amazing that "infections are surging" yet deaths are staying stagnant. Of course remember, it cannot be because of increased testing. There is also smaller percentages of people showing up positive vs tests taken than it was in say April. All data points to we are just catching more cases than we did before, and it is far less deadly than we thought.

Deaths lag cases by about 3 - 4 weeks.  So the “stagnant” death toll is from the leveling off of cases from before we prematurely reopened the country.  Our current surge in cases will result in next month’s rise in deaths.

[Lois R]

14 minutes ago, ed01106 said:

Deaths lag cases by about 3 - 4 weeks.  So the “stagnant” death toll is from the leveling off of cases from before we prematurely reopened the country.  Our current surge in cases will result in next month’s rise in deaths.

 

I was thinking the exact same thing......all these horrible risings? Isn't everything always delayed with this virus?

We should probably be seeing (sadly) many more deaths in the middle to end of July.

[Lois R]

19 hours ago, chipmaster said:

 

Forget cruising this holiday and thru early 2021 for any US based or US citiizen's elsewhere given the mess here. 

 

We had a chance to contain it, but alas we squandered it on the whims of “It’s going to disappear. One day, it’s like a miracle, it will disappear.”

Now it is really out like a wildflire that will only end when it burns itself out, the destruction in its wake will be hopefully not too much.

 

https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/coronavirus/cdc-says-way-too-much-virus-in-us-to-control-pandemic-as-cases-surge/2388057/

 

And yesterday Dr Fauci stated he thinks the cases can rise from the now 40,000  a day to 100,000 cases......

The destruction you mentioned? It is going to sadly increase 10 fold if things continue as  they are.......I agree

with your assessment. it is a big ------- mess.

[K32682]

1 hour ago, Elaine5715 said:

Except those same state are accepting flights from other countries and states.  

 

Exposure times are far less on a flight compared to thousands of people crammed together on a boat for many days where the risk viral spread is significant higher.  Also, quarantining people on an aircraft isn't possible and that plane has to land somewhere. 

 

Until which time there is a vaccine or the virus burns out anyone who takes a cruise needs to accept that a ship-board quarantine is a distinct possibility.     

[navybankerteacher]

1 hour ago, Elaine5715 said:

Neither of those ships were scheduled to dock in Florida and the Florida Governor had a legitimate concern that all of the crew and non US guests would proceed directly to the Florida hospital system and their cost of care placed on Florida. Most of those guests were not US and the US does/did have the ability to denied entry to non US Citizens.  Even in the original response by the Governor, he did say "except for Florida residents" but that was usually dropped by the media to continue their narrative of "cruise ship bad".  The Feds control the border not the state anyways.   

Both of those ships are frequently home-ported in Fort Lauderdale - which I believe WAS a scheduled call. Also, both ships generally carry a majority of US passengers - and certainly were carrying many US citizens on that itinerary.

[clo]

3 hours ago, Hlitner said:

 I worked in the healthcare industry for much of my life and got into this strange habit of allowing facts to slip into my little ole mind.

I also, Hank. Annoying things those facts.

[chipmaster]

1 hour ago, Joebucks said:

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/total-deaths-and-cases-covid-19?time=2020-04-01..&country=~USA

 

Amazing that "infections are surging" yet deaths are staying stagnant. Of course remember, it cannot be because of increased testing. There is also smaller percentages of people showing up positive vs tests taken than it was in say April. All data points to we are just catching more cases than we did before, and it is far less deadly than we thought.

 

Honestly, there is no "need" to quarantine a ship for 14 days. It doesn't mean it won't happen though. The panic is worse than the actual virus. All it takes is a few reported cases and a panicked company to quarantine a ship for 2 weeks.

 

Data doesn't lie, the % of positive is exploding so that means the prevalence of people walking around asymptomatic is also exploding, those positive and those asymptomatic that are running around will be the one that give it to you on a ship, in Walmart/Costco, on an airplane and you'll take it home to your parents or unhealthy friend at a July4 holiday and 4-5 weeks later a large percentage of the high risk will end up in hospitals and then another 2-5 weeks later become another statistics.  Its a slow moving train wreck where you don't see the two key indicators infected and death till a month and three months later.    

 

The US really lost any benefit for all the costly sacrifices they made because those in the name of freedom and our leader simply put other things more important than a little self sacrfice and control when re-opened.