Once sailing resumes, do you think an entire ship would be "quarantined" for a + and not allowed to come into home port?

[chipmaster]

1 hour ago, Lois R said:

 

I was thinking the exact same thing......all these horrible risings? Isn't everything always delayed with this virus?

We should probably be seeing (sadly) many more deaths in the middle to end of July.

 

It is much slower, most are young, won't get sick or take longer to end up in hospital, but the longer they stay health the more they wander around spreading it till it hits the high risk old, obese, diabetic, unfit... and then give them 3 weeks to get sick and another 4 weeks in ICU, figure about labor day we'll see it.    Just as we discuss mass return to school.

 

Sadly US citizens seem to free to care about their country and fellow Americans as most in the rest of the world

[Lois R]

6 minutes ago, chipmaster said:

 

It is much slower, most are young, won't get sick or take longer to end up in hospital, but the longer they stay health the more they wander around spreading it till it hits the high risk old, obese, diabetic, unfit... and then give them 3 weeks to get sick and another 4 weeks in ICU, figure about labor day we'll see it.    Just as we discuss mass return to school.

 

Sadly US citizens seem to free to care about their country and fellow Americans as most in the rest of the world

So we both think more deaths are coming.......you are saying September and I think it will be sooner.........sadly. 

[sverigecruiser]

3 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

The thought of being quarantined on board a ship and being denied access to ports is a huge dis-incentive to me to book a cruise again until I see "in practice" how well any plans might work. You seem to have faith in the Swedish authorities, but would you have the same faith on a Caribbean cruise coming back to the US with potential covid cases onboard?

 

 

If one part of the plan they must have before the cruises can start again is that they will be allowed to dock in the US, if the cruise shall and in the US, even with Covid-19 cases onboard, I do assume that the US authorities will follow the agreement they have and let them dock.

 

Without an agreement that they will be able to dock I don't think the cruises will start again.

 

Just what I think, I can't provide any facts!

[clo]

18 minutes ago, chipmaster said:

Data doesn't lie, the % of positive is exploding

Great, succinct explanation. Thanks.

[clo]

2 minutes ago, chipmaster said:

forget the flip flop of the WHO and CDC. 

I don't like that term "flip flop." Everything I've read indicates that as they got more info they would change their recommendations. Seems pretty common in medicine...and other things in life.

[cbr663]

19 hours ago, Hlitner said:

Folks will often say what they "feel" rather then rely on facts.  Here are the facts.  Ports have not generally allowed ships to dock with COVID-19 cases.  In a few cases when that has happened it was after significant delays and was generally accompanied by a 14 day quarantine of everyone on the ship.  Will this change within a few months?  I think the evidence is actually to the contrary.  More and more countries have made it clear they do not want cruise ships and the cruise industry has yet to release any proposal of how to deal with cases aboard.  The fast Abbot test has proven to be unreliable with false negatives that sometimes approach 20%.  Other types of testing are more accurate but generally take a couple of days (assuming you have easy access to an approved lab) and would unlikely be done on cruise ships.  

 

Where does this leave the cruise industry?  I have no clue.  We are not anti cruise (we still have a 30 day cruise booked for October, a 14 day cruise in December and a 28 day cruise next April) but have our doubts about any of these cruises happening.  I simply ask myself an easy question.  If I were running a port or government would I allow a ship (and its souls) to dock if they did not have a good plan on how to deal with COVID-19 aboard?  No way!  Most ports do not get enough benefit from a ship to justify taking the risk.  Until the cruise lines are able to assure ports that the risk (of allowing passengers ashore) is minimal I suspect that most ports will continue to refuse ships.  The one likely exception could be the so-called Private Islands...but this is only a possibility for short Caribbean cruises which is a small part of the worldwide cruise industry.

 

Speaking of the Caribbean, the recent surge of COVID-19 in Florida is another huge problem for the industry.   At this time a cruise ship passenger or crew member embarking on a cruise from FL will have to pass through a COVID-19 hot zone.  Since testing (even at the port) would be unlikely to detect recent exposure the cruise line would have to gamble that not a single passenger was exposed during the trip to the port and possible time in FL.  What a mess.  Is there any wonder that the CDC has been quiet about new standards for the cruise industry?

 

Hank

 

Bang on again Hank.

 

Many people are posting what they hope will happen.  Fact is in the past ships with outbreaks were not allowed to dock.  Another fact is that the cruise lines have not announced any plans on how they plan to deal with an outbreak on board.  Nor have any cruise line offered any assurances that when an outbreak occurs that the ship will dock safely.

 

My guess, and I state again, it is only my guess, is that the cruise lines have not released these plans because the cruise lines will not comply with the CDC requirements of basically being solely responsible for treating on board passengers who become infected.  Keep in mind that for some passengers this may mean providing medical treatment for months.

[sverigecruiser]

17 minutes ago, cbr663 said:

Many people are posting what they hope will happen.  Fact is in the past ships with outbreaks were not allowed to dock.  Another fact is that the cruise lines have not announced any plans on how they plan to deal with an outbreak on board.  Nor have any cruise line offered any assurances that when an outbreak occurs that the ship will dock safely.

 

It's a fact that in the past ships with outbreaks were not allowed to dock but we don't know if that will happen again or not. We can only guess and say what we think will happen.

 

We don't have the facts for what will happen so we can just tell the OP what we think will happen or we can choose not to say what we think.

Edited July 1, 2020 by sverigecruiser

[Roz]

57 minutes ago, chipmaster said:

 

It is much slower, most are young, won't get sick or take longer to end up in hospital, but the longer they stay health the more they wander around spreading it till it hits the high risk old, obese, diabetic, unfit... and then give them 3 weeks to get sick and another 4 weeks in ICU, figure about labor day we'll see it.    Just as we discuss mass return to school.

 

Most people who are hospitalized with Covid don't end up in the ICU and don't die.  They may need breathing treatments or a respirator, but not a ventilator.  

[Hlitner]

16 minutes ago, cbr663 said:

 

Bang on again Hank.

 

Many people are posting what they hope will happen.  Fact is in the past ships with outbreaks were not allowed to dock.  Another fact is that the cruise lines have not announced any plans on how they plan to deal with an outbreak on board.  Nor have any cruise line offered any assurances that when an outbreak occurs that the ship will dock safely.

 

My guess, and I state again, it is only my guess, is that the cruise lines have not released these plans because the cruise lines will not comply with the CDC requirements of basically being solely responsible for treating on board passengers who become infected.  Keep in mind that for some passengers this may mean providing medical treatment for months.

And this leads to a huge issue.  Insurance!  Many folks rely on various types of trip insurance or even annual travel medical plans.  As of now, nearly all plans have adopted exclusions for care related to COVID-19.  We recently asked Steve Dasseos, here on CC, if he knew of any travel medical plan that did not have a COVID-19 exclusion and his quick answer was NO.  Most consider Steve one of the best travel insurance experts so we saw no reason to look further.   While some folks would have medical coverage through their primary (normal) medical policies, many folks would not be covered.  This could be an even bigger problem for Europeans and Canadians.  A friend of ours (a frequent poster here on CC) whose primary residence is in the Netherlands has posted that their national insurance would likely not cover COVID-19 related problems outside of Europe.  

 

What does this all mean?  It might be a huge disincentive for many folks to cruise (or travel).  For those of us in the USA, the major factor is our Centers for Disease Control and Prevention(CDC) which issues various official warnings.  The current warning puts any International Travel at a Level 3 Warning which is precisely what most insurers use as their exclusion guideline.  Put simply it puts nearly all US travelers at a huge financial risk if they leave the USA until the CDC lowers its threat level.

 

Hank

[navybankerteacher]

50 minutes ago, Lois R said:

So we both think more deaths are coming.......you are saying September and I think it will be sooner.........sadly. 

Figure about two weeks for symptoms to show - that means end of first week of July from this latest surge; then perhaps another two weeks for symptoms to worsen enough for hospitalizations to increase - that means late July;  then perhaps another two weeks for those unable to recover to start dying - that means mid-August.

 

Thank you, you governors who wanted commerce above everything - and you yahoos who were determined to express your rights and hang out in crowds on beaches and in bars, and not wear “no damn masks”.

[navybankerteacher]

5 minutes ago, Roz said:

 

Most people who are hospitalized with Covid don't end up in the ICU and don't die.  They may need breathing treatments or a respirator, but not a ventilator.  

What TOTALLY AVOIDABLE death rate is acceptable to you?

[ldubs]

13 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

It may be that the spread is now too wide to contain.  But, even if it had not reached that point, the mindless refusal of government officials to impose hard controls still jeopardize effective efforts.  

 

Failing to impose, and enforce, control methods such as wearing masks and maintaining effective social distancing — EVEN NOW - leaves little room for hope.

 

13 hours ago, clo said:

Well, I've read that an 'executive order' to mandate masks would make a huge difference. Also close down bars and other 'inside' venues which seems to be the biggest single issue. It's clear that too many people in the US refuse to do the right thing unless they're forced to. My anger grows daily. And, honestly, at this point do people really care about cruising compared to 'just' living?

 

Of course masks & distancing are still important to control spread.  I just think this CDC deputy directory did a poor job of reinforcing preventive steps in that in that briefing.  Don't just blame the top executive.  Even in our liberal state they pander to politics.  Funny how large public gatherings were deemed OK just when the mass protests were to start.   There is entirely too much finger pointing, blaming, and trying to make political rivals look bad, instead of focus on solutions and the guts to enforce them.  I'm sick of hearing it across the board. I'm ready to vote the whole lot out and replace them with people who will actually represent our needs.  

 

As just a general observation, it seems that the places with the larger case counts/deaths early on are the ones that are now showing significant declines in the percent of positive tests.  Of course by not flattening the curve a high price was paid to get there.   

 

 

[Roz]

1 minute ago, navybankerteacher said:

What TOTALLY AVOIDABLE death rate is acceptable to you?

 

No death rate is acceptable to me.   I never said that.  I was just pointing out that not everyone who is hospitalized due to Covid goes to the ICU and is handed a death sentence.  

 

How do we totally avoid death due to Covid when the medical community doesn't fully understand how its contracted and spread?

[clo]

9 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

Thank you, you governors who wanted commerce above everything - and you yahoos who were determined to express your rights and hang out in crowds on beaches and in bars, and not wear “no damn masks”.

Just saw some "kid" on a beach on the news. He was spouting the "I'm young and healthy" crap. Have they really ignored the facts all this time?

[ldubs]

17 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

What TOTALLY AVOIDABLE death rate is acceptable to you?

 

I do not think that stating a fact is the same as finding the fact acceptable.  

Edited July 1, 2020 by ldubs

[Lois R]

5 minutes ago, clo said:

Just saw some "kid" on a beach on the news. He was spouting the "I'm young and healthy" crap. Have they really ignored the facts all this time?

They are in the group that just "doesn't give a damn".......so yes, that kid is ignoring the facts.     

[Hlitner]

12 minutes ago, clo said:

Just saw some "kid" on a beach on the news. He was spouting the "I'm young and healthy" crap. Have they really ignored the facts all this time?

I guess we have to try and remember what is was like to be young :).  Those "kids" feel invulnerable and we have heard some even say that if they get COVID-19, "so what!"  I guess reality is that most are at very low risk other then a couple of weeks of misery.  

 

So, I ask myself what was I like when young.   I do know when I helped administer some HIV/AIDS programs I never worried about the risk (which was unknown early in that epidemic).  It was that young attitude that "nothing can hurt me, it only happens to other folks."  Add to this the "me me me" attitude that has been a symbol of the last few younger generations (at least in the USA).  Tell some kids that their reckless behavior could kill Grandma or Grandpa and many just shrug their shoulders as if to say that is their problem.  Sad.

 

Hank

[Lois R]

27 minutes ago, clo said:

Just saw some "kid" on a beach on the news. He was spouting the "I'm young and healthy" crap. Have they really ignored the facts all this time?

 

And I saw something on the news that was not kids.....actually the Gov of South Dakota said there would be no necessary masks and no social distancing this weekend at their July 4th event at 

Mount Rushmore. And If you don't feel comfortable doing that, you can stay home. (her words).

So it comes from older people who don't care either...........👎

[lenquixote66]

On 6/30/2020 at 11:42 AM, Eli_6 said:

So, I am seeing posts that one of the concerns with taking a 2020 cruise is the entire ship not being allowed to go into dock if there is a positive.  In fact, that is why my husband is opposing me booking a cruise until next summer. His fear is being quarantined ON the ship and not able to do his job.  (As an aside, right now he is doing telemedicine and not even going into the office so it seems to me so long as his internet worked, he could still work...although, I honestly wouldn't want to be stuck on a ship for two weeks anyway.)  Do you think, at this point, with 6,000 new cases a day in Texas, they would really quarantine an entire ship for a positive and not allow it to dock?  Would they even know if there was a positive in the span of a 4 or 5 day cruise? Those we know who have tested, despite the supposed quick test, have had to wait 3-4 days for their results. We know several people who have tested positive for Covid-19 and they have just been told to "self-quarantine" with no one really following back up to make sure they actually do it. If I was exposed, I would obviously self-quarantine in my own house and follow any instructions...but with the rate of spread, would they still take the drastic measure of not allowing people off a ship simply because they *might* have been exposed? I feel like I run the risk of being exposed simply going to the grocery store or gas station in Houston.  Thoughts on my question?

 

To be clear, I take COVID-19 very seriously--especially mask wearing.

I rather be in Kemah at this time.

[ROXIETHEHORSE]

I have not seen any plan at all put forth for when someone tests positive on a ship. This leads me to believe that there is no plan other than quarantine the whole ship...so we will not be cruising until that changes. Also not until distancing and masks are no longer needed...so likely never cruising again.

[sverigecruiser]

1 hour ago, Hlitner said:

And this leads to a huge issue.  Insurance!  Many folks rely on various types of trip insurance or even annual travel medical plans.  As of now, nearly all plans have adopted exclusions for care related to COVID-19.  We recently asked Steve Dasseos, here on CC, if he knew of any travel medical plan that did not have a COVID-19 exclusion and his quick answer was NO.  Most consider Steve one of the best travel insurance experts so we saw no reason to look further.   While some folks would have medical coverage through their primary (normal) medical policies, many folks would not be covered.  This could be an even bigger problem for Europeans and Canadians.  A friend of ours (a frequent poster here on CC) whose primary residence is in the Netherlands has posted that their national insurance would likely not cover COVID-19 related problems outside of Europe.  

 

 

Our next cruise will most likely be in the Mediterranean and all ports will be within the European Union. We are entitled to the same health care as the citizens in the country we are in within the European Union so if we get sick we have medical coverage during our next cruise. Because of that I'm not worried about the insurance issue.    

Edited July 1, 2020 by sverigecruiser

[clo]

25 minutes ago, ROXIETHEHORSE said:

I have not seen any plan at all put forth for when someone tests positive on a ship. This leads me to believe that there is no plan other than quarantine the whole ship...so we will not be cruising until that changes. Also not until distancing and masks are no longer needed...so likely never cruising again.

I haven't see a specific plan for a single thing.

[cbr663]

2 hours ago, Hlitner said:

And this leads to a huge issue.  Insurance!  Many folks rely on various types of trip insurance or even annual travel medical plans.  As of now, nearly all plans have adopted exclusions for care related to COVID-19.  We recently asked Steve Dasseos, here on CC, if he knew of any travel medical plan that did not have a COVID-19 exclusion and his quick answer was NO.  Most consider Steve one of the best travel insurance experts so we saw no reason to look further.   While some folks would have medical coverage through their primary (normal) medical policies, many folks would not be covered.  This could be an even bigger problem for Europeans and Canadians.  A friend of ours (a frequent poster here on CC) whose primary residence is in the Netherlands has posted that their national insurance would likely not cover COVID-19 related problems outside of Europe.  

 

What does this all mean?  It might be a huge disincentive for many folks to cruise (or travel).  For those of us in the USA, the major factor is our Centers for Disease Control and Prevention(CDC) which issues various official warnings.  The current warning puts any International Travel at a Level 3 Warning which is precisely what most insurers use as their exclusion guideline.  Put simply it puts nearly all US travelers at a huge financial risk if they leave the USA until the CDC lowers its threat level.

 

Hank

Insurance is a big issue.

 

The EU has announced that it will open its borders to Canadians.  The Gov't of Canada though still has travel advisories in place to avoid all non-essential travel outside of Canada and to avoid all cruise ship travel.  They continue to warn all Canadians that should you decide to travel outside of the country that you do so with considerable risk and that the gov't will not be chartering any planes to return Canadians home and that the Gov't of Canada may not be able to offer Canadians much help if stranded outside of Canada.  

 

All of this basically means any Canadian leaving the country to vacation is doing so without any insurance coverage.

[K32682]

19 minutes ago, cbr663 said:

Insurance is a big issue.

 

The EU has announced that it will open its borders to Canadians.  The Gov't of Canada though still has travel advisories in place to avoid all non-essential travel outside of Canada and to avoid all cruise ship travel.  They continue to warn all Canadians that should you decide to travel outside of the country that you do so with considerable risk and that the gov't will not be chartering any planes to return Canadians home and that the Gov't of Canada may not be able to offer Canadians much help if stranded outside of Canada.  

 

All of this basically means any Canadian leaving the country to vacation is doing so without any insurance coverage.

 

Additionally the government of Canada has extended the 14 quarantine requirement for anyone entering the country to August 31.  They take that quarantine very seriously.  No going out at all unless it is for medical care.  Violating the instructions can result in penalties up to a $750 thousand dollar fine and 6 months in prison.    

 

 

Edited July 1, 2020 by K32682

[Hlitner]

17 minutes ago, cbr663 said:

Insurance is a big issue.

 

The EU has announced that it will open its borders to Canadians.  The Gov't of Canada though still has travel advisories in place to avoid all non-essential travel outside of Canada and to avoid all cruise ship travel.  They continue to warn all Canadians that should you decide to travel outside of the country that you do so with considerable risk and that the gov't will not be chartering any planes to return Canadians home and that the Gov't of Canada may not be able to offer Canadians much help if stranded outside of Canada.  

 

All of this basically means any Canadian leaving the country to vacation is doing so without any insurance coverage.

This issue impacts all travel.  We live in Puerto Vallarta during the winter which is also a very popular place for Canadians.  Just about everyone with smarts makes darn sure they have decent medical coverage in Mexico.  But, if the Canadians and Americans cannot use their normal insurance and cannot purchase alternative coverage then there will be a major disincentive for folks to be "snowbirds" next winter.   I know that many here on CC are only thinking in terms of cruising, but this COVID-19 thing is a huge issue for the entire travel industry.   

 

I am also thinking there might be some upside for some of the domestic travel industry.  RV's are certainly going to be in great demand and we have heard that bookings are doing very well for many of the East Coast resort towns.  Folks want to get out of their homes, have some fun, but are very limited in options.

 

Hank