Extra tipping

[sparks1093]

1 minute ago, gerryuk said:

Shouldn't the cruise line be held accountable if they are paying such low wages, not the customer?

I will be doing a 30 day cruise with Costa in September (if it sails) this year, you have to pay £10 per day in service charges whether you like it or not, i will not be paying another penny on top, i am not a charity.

 

That's a topic for many other tipping threads. The passenger agreed to the system when they booked the cruise. The 10 pounds a day (per person?) is the recommended tip and there is no requirement to tip above that.

[wowzz]

21 minutes ago, gerryuk said:

Shouldn't the cruise line be held accountable if they are paying such low wages, not the customer?

I will be doing a 30 day cruise with Costa in September (if it sails) this year, you have to pay £10 per day in service charges whether you like it or not, i will not be paying another penny on top, i am not a charity.

 

 

 

 

Where Costa are sailing close to the law(!) in the UK at least, is that if the service charge is compulsory, it has to be included in the base price of the cruise.  Not allowing you to opt out is illegal.

[Toofarfromthesea]

On 7/5/2020 at 9:37 AM, sparks1093 said:

That isn't the implication at all, unless you cast it in that language when you pro-offer the tip in advance. There is a difference between "please make sure my ice bucket is full" and "please make sure my ice bucket is filled before anyone else's". It would be no skin off my nose if my ice bucket were to be filled last so it wouldn't be at my expense in any case.

 

They will fill the icebucket, if asked, without any tip.  So what is the point of the advance tip?

[sparks1093]

31 minutes ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

 

They will fill the icebucket, if asked, without any tip.  So what is the point of the advance tip?

Yes, they will but it's the "if asked" part that warrants an extra tip to some people. They will do a lot of things "if asked" which is part of their job, fulfilling the guest's requests, but that doesn't mean that they aren't providing extra service.

[navybankerteacher]

4 hours ago, wowzz said:

Where Costa are sailing close to the law(!) in the UK at least, is that if the service charge is compulsory, it has to be included in the base price of the cruise.  Not allowing you to opt out is illegal.

NCL comes close - passengers can only opt out in writing - after returning home.

[GrJ Berkshire]

4 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

NCL comes close - passengers can only opt out in writing - after returning home.

As a Brit I find this tipping idea so 19th century Master & servant , why not pay everything up front in a higher fare so the staff are not on slave wages and there is no need to pay them to do their job. This approach as Regent use is so much easier. Tipping is simply a way to top up substandard wages and often is bribery. In UK law both of Costa and NCL is not legal ( Its what Ryanair so often fall foul of adding in costs to a published fare which is compulsory ).

[navybankerteacher]

24 minutes ago, GrJ Berkshire said:

As a Brit I find this tipping idea so 19th century Master & servant , why not pay everything up front in a higher fare so the staff are not on slave wages and there is no need to pay them to do their job. This approach as Regent use is so much easier. Tipping is simply a way to top up substandard wages and often is bribery. In UK law both of Costa and NCL is not legal ( Its what Ryanair so often fall foul of adding in costs to a published fare which is compulsory ).

It is hard to visualize cruising as not involving at least a bit of your “...19th century Master & Servant...” relationship.   Do you think that the stewards really want to clean your toilet - or serve your food or make up your bed?  They are there because that arrangement affords them a better life than anything in their home country.

 

To the extent that a significant portion of the cruise experience is the service received -  tieing the amount of compensation to the quality of that service makes sense.  Of course, anyone wishing to reduce the amount of standard compensation paid for such service should be required to demonstrate why — and, of course, should be willing to provide extra compensation for superior service.  

 

I acknowledge that everyone may not get the same pay in an economy which provides higher compensation for better contribution (incentive pay) but successful economies throughout the world do function that way. Even in Britain some people get more pay than other people - it tends to reflect the value of their contribution to the economy.

 

Then - to the extent gratuity income is not taxed as heavily as salary, a shipboard worker gets to keep more of what a passenger pays than he would if all his income was salary .  Additionally, if the fare included all compensation for services - it would be part of the lines total income - and thus possible subject to some tax bite before reaching the steward’s pocket.

[clo]

1 hour ago, GrJ Berkshire said:

As a Brit I find this tipping idea so 19th century Master & servant , why not pay everything up front in a higher fare so the staff are not on slave wages and there is no need to pay them to do their job. This approach as Regent use is so much easier. Tipping is simply a way to top up substandard wages and often is bribery. In UK law both of Costa and NCL is not legal ( Its what Ryanair so often fall foul of adding in costs to a published fare which is compulsory ).

I totally agree with you but this tipping issue goes far, far beyond cruising and won't be change in my lifetime. And I honestly don't know why.

[ldubs]

19 hours ago, nosapphire said:

In my (fairly limited) experience, most people on a cruise tip at the end of the cruise (please  - not on the morning of departure, when your steward will wrestling with 3 duvet covets at once...).

The only problem I can see with tipping at the start of a cruise is if it is the first time your steward has been tipped at the start, whether they will spend the rest of the cruise wondering what you are going to ask for..so maybe say, "Oh, I'll give you this now as the last day is always such a rush" (Then if you want to, you can surprise them with another tip at the end).

 

By the by, if your cruise is a UK/European line that adds "optional" gratuities to your bill at the end... please don't be one of those queuing up at reception to have it removed. So many people do that, proudly saying "I prefer to give the tip directly to the person" - but the tips added to your bill go to all the service crew, not just the ones you see, and they rely on it.

Leave the optional gratuities on your bill, and if you want to give an extra tip to your steward, waiter, busboy, tell them with a smile that it is a little extra on top to say thank you.

 

 

 

I agree with your experience. I don't think the idea was to move the tip up front.  Instead I think it was to tip in response to a special request, special service, etc.  Not a replacement so much as an additional incentive I guess.  Anyway, like I said before, I think there is too much being make of this molehill.   A lot of sour grapes I think.   

 

[nosapphire]

3 hours ago, ldubs said:

 

I agree with your experience. I don't think the idea was to move the tip up front.  Instead I think it was to tip in response to a special request, special service, etc.  Not a replacement so much as an additional incentive I guess.  Anyway, like I said before, I think there is too much being make of this molehill.   A lot of sour grapes I think.   

 

Not sour grapes, just we are all a bit at a loss with the whole Corona situation, and many of us (well, me,anyway) are posting on subjects we would not normally post about - with the result that a perfectly reasonable straightforward question as per the original OP ends up as a discussion on ethics.

Let's hope we do not confuse too many new posters by heading off in so many different directions (another forum I saw, somebody asked about hairdressing and the discussion ended with a very heated exchange about combustion engines....)

[sparks1093]

9 hours ago, GrJ Berkshire said:

As a Brit I find this tipping idea so 19th century Master & servant , why not pay everything up front in a higher fare so the staff are not on slave wages and there is no need to pay them to do their job. This approach as Regent use is so much easier. Tipping is simply a way to top up substandard wages and often is bribery. In UK law both of Costa and NCL is not legal ( Its what Ryanair so often fall foul of adding in costs to a published fare which is compulsory ).

"Slave wages" are in the eyes of the beholder, many of the crew make 2 to 4 times more working on cruise ships for tips than they can make in their native land. I know many people here in my state who live quite comfortably with what they make for tips. Working for tips isn't an easy gig, but it can certainly support someone. 

[d9704011]

2 hours ago, nosapphire said:

with the result that a perfectly reasonable straightforward question as per the original OP ends up as a discussion on ethics.

This is a very common occurrence on Cruise Critic.  For sure, many are posting and commenting more on threads ‘cause they’ve got too much coronavirus time on their hands but topic bifurcation is not caused by coronavirus.

 

See, I just did it myself!

Edited July 7, 2020 by d9704011

[sparks1093]

8 hours ago, clo said:

I totally agree with you but this tipping issue goes far, far beyond cruising and won't be change in my lifetime. And I honestly don't know why.

I know a fellow that makes $50,000 a year working as a bell hop for a resort hotel. How much more do you think that the hotel would have to charge to pay him that, if they would even consider paying that to begin with? I know many people who work for tips and their chief complaint is lack of full time hours, not what they make. Lack of full time hours is also the chief complaint of many other people who get an hourly wage.

[sparks1093]

1 minute ago, d9704011 said:

This is a very common occurrence on Cruise Critic.  For sure, many are posting and commenting more on threads ‘cause they’ve got too much coronavirus time on their hands but topic bifurcation is not caused by coronavirus.

Most of us would be posting even if we weren't in the middle of a pandemic😉 (and we'd be saying the same thing, just as we have for years).

[sanger727]

9 hours ago, GrJ Berkshire said:

As a Brit I find this tipping idea so 19th century Master & servant , why not pay everything up front in a higher fare so the staff are not on slave wages and there is no need to pay them to do their job. This approach as Regent use is so much easier. Tipping is simply a way to top up substandard wages and often is bribery. In UK law both of Costa and NCL is not legal ( Its what Ryanair so often fall foul of adding in costs to a published fare which is compulsory ).

 

It all kinda works itself out in the end. You can pay a cruise rate of $1,000 pp and pay an extra $200 in standard gratuity. Or you can pay a base rate of $1,200 with no standard gratuity. More and more often cruise lines that offer perks are including the daily gratuity in their "perk" rate. But you simply pay extra for that rate. It's just bundling.  Luxury cruise lines that include tipping are already doing that. I'm not bothered by the extra auto gratuity (though I'm American so used to tipping); but I do appreciate the cruise line taking the guess work out of it for me. Instead of getting envelopes and trying to figure out how much to tip whom, they take care of it and I feel no obligation to tip extra (I may if it's warranted, but I certainly don't feel obligated to). 

[ldubs]

8 hours ago, nosapphire said:

Not sour grapes, just we are all a bit at a loss with the whole Corona situation, and many of us (well, me,anyway) are posting on subjects we would not normally post about - with the result that a perfectly reasonable straightforward question as per the original OP ends up as a discussion on ethics.

Let's hope we do not confuse too many new posters by heading off in so many different directions (another forum I saw, somebody asked about hairdressing and the discussion ended with a very heated exchange about combustion engines....)

 

Well said Nosapphire.   I guess it is normal for discussions to "evolve".  haha

[wowzz]

On 7/7/2020 at 2:59 AM, navybankerteacher said:

Additionally, if the fare included all compensation for services - it would be part of the lines total income - and thus possible subject to some tax bite before reaching the steward’s pocket.

But quite a few lines adopt this approach, so there is obviously a way round the tax situation. 

[biker@sea]

Tipping in advance is no different than a sign on bonus...

[gerryuk]

24 minutes ago, biker@sea said:

Tipping in advance is no different than a sign on bonus...

Or its a sign that you expect better service than those in the next door cabin who do not tip. Bottom line, it smells of bribery to me.

[c-boy]

3 hours ago, biker@sea said:

Tipping in advance is no different than a sign on bonus...

I can use this analogy when I pay for my cruise gratuity ahead of time. 

[Toofarfromthesea]

On 7/8/2020 at 1:08 AM, wowzz said:

But quite a few lines adopt this approach, so there is obviously a way round the tax situation. 

 

There is.  It is called getting to deduct expenses.

[wowzz]

5 hours ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

 

There is.  It is called getting to deduct expenses.

Sorry, you need to explain to a non accountant what you mean.

My last cruise, I paid the fare, tips were included. Nothing extra to pay. So, why cannot all other cruise lines do the same?

[d9704011]

31 minutes ago, wowzz said:

Sorry, you need to explain to a non accountant what you mean.

My last cruise, I paid the fare, tips were included. Nothing extra to pay. So, why cannot all other cruise lines do the same?

They could, they just don’t want to.  Many customers want to see the ‘lowest’ prices.  I’m not saying it’s totally rational, but that’s how many consumer brains work.  The add-ons (tips, gratuities, etc...) can be  applied after the commitment to buy has been made.

[clo]

40 minutes ago, wowzz said:

My last cruise, I paid the fare, tips were included.

So you mean it wasn't a separate line item when you settled up at the end?

[GrJ Berkshire]

1 hour ago, d9704011 said:

They could, they just don’t want to.  Many customers want to see the ‘lowest’ prices.  I’m not saying it’s totally rational, but that’s how many consumer brains work.  The add-ons (tips, gratuities, etc...) can be  applied after the commitment to buy has been made.

Its the "sharp practice" the cheap airlines like Ryanair have used. Now not legal in Europe and UK