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mrlevin
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Please do not try to make decisions for others.  The decision as to whether or not to cruise (once the ban is lifted) is a personal one.  If a person decides to cruise - that's fine and if they decide not to - that is fine a well.

 

If the pandemic is still going (which is likely), we will self-quarantine when we get home just to be on the safe side.  

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1 hour ago, howiefrommd said:

One of the big challenges we have in the US is for some reason wearing a mask has become a political issue.  Anecdotally, you see on the news people who have meltdowns over being asked to wear a mask to enter a store.  I have seen in Florida, where a person pulled a gun a person who was asking them to don a mask.

 

 

We live in Florida and wearing a mask is not a political issue. We live in an adult community. A variety of political opinions. Wherever we go in our neighborhood, everyone is masked and follows social distancing.
There are stupid people all over. Especially the young people. And crowds. 
More people all over the country need to be forced into following the rules. 
Please  don’t make assumptions from news reports. 
sheila

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10 minutes ago, Travelcat2 said:

Please do not try to make decisions for others.  The decision as to whether or not to cruise (once the ban is lifted) is a personal one.  If a person decides to cruise - that's fine and if they decide not to - that is fine a well.

 

If the pandemic is still going (which is likely), we will self-quarantine when we get home just to be on the safe side.  

Not sure who you were responding to with your first paragraph. So if someone makes the decision to cruise and gets others infected on the ship that personal decision impacts others and it goes beyond personal at that time. 

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I'd bet the Hurtigruten passengers are now struggling with whether they inadvertently exposed an awful lot of people on their return from what should have been a joyous holiday trip. 

 

Hmm, what if quarantine was imposed on passengers on immediately exiting the ship - being transported to a holding area for those 10-14 days?  That might mitigate a bit how many others would be exposed, rather than allowing passengers to head home in private or public transportation, no?

 

In any event, I suspect the Hurtigruten saga has extended at least the CDC's no sail order by quite a bit...

Edited by greykitty
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55 minutes ago, Bellaggio Cruisers said:

We live in Florida and wearing a mask is not a political issue. We live in an adult community. A variety of political opinions. Wherever we go in our neighborhood, everyone is masked and follows social distancing.
There are stupid people all over. Especially the young people. And crowds. 
More people all over the country need to be forced into following the rules. 
Please  don’t make assumptions from news reports. 
sheila

First off, I was using one particular incident (that happened to have happened in Florida) not using Florida as an example.  I can tell you I have classmates and people I trained with who are working tirelessly in Hospitals throughout Florida trying to keep people alive. I cannot disagree more that masks have not turned into a political statement.  It is not an issue of Florida, it is an issue for the US.   I do not make assumptions from news reports.  If you should notice in prior postings,  I will usually give reference to my information.  I deliberately have not referenced any talking heads or their corresponding publications.  My entire career decisions are based on science.  Some of the best professors I had (an very distinguished physicians) have always taught me to follow the science. 

 

The tone and implications in your post is is not warranted, but more important not factual.  

Edited by howiefrommd
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1 hour ago, Travelcat2 said:

Please do not try to make decisions for others.  The decision as to whether or not to cruise (once the ban is lifted) is a personal one.  If a person decides to cruise - that's fine and if they decide not to - that is fine a well.

 

 

 

It seems that there is some special sensitivity around Covid decision making that I don't quite understand.  The theme "don't tell me what to do" in one form or another has appeared on various threads during the Covid discussion.  In this instance it is framed as "Please do not try to make decisions for others", though I'm not sure to whom the post was intended to apply.  This sentiment is from a post that ends with "Wear a mask...", a sentiment that seems to me to be telling others what to do or making decisions for others. 

 

The CC threads are filled with posts that tell others what to do.  Use a travel agent, book or don't book certain suites, use Regent air or don't use Regent air, worry or don't worry about something such as refunds, don't post too much on the Regent board if you haven't sailed on Regent, call Regent directly or don't call Regent but rather have your TA call Regent, etc., etc.  Even telling someone to try not to make decisions for others is telling someone what to do or making a decision for others.

 

It is the nature of these threads to give advice about doing something or not doing something, sometimes indirectly but often directly. Of course, there are different ways of phrasing suggestions such as:

Don't book a suite under the pool deck, I would never book a suite under the pool deck, Consider the noise if you are going to book a suite under the pool deck, etc.  These are all variations on advice that could be interpreted as telling people what to do or making decisions for others.

 

So I remain puzzled by the meaning of posts suggesting that others shouldn't tell others what to do with regard to sailing during the Covid times.

 

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32 minutes ago, howiefrommd said:

First off, I was using one particular incident (that happened to have happened in Florida) not using Florida as an example.  I can tell you I have classmates and people I trained with who are working tirelessly in Hospitals throughout Florida trying to keep people alive. I cannot disagree more that masks have not turned into a political statement.  It is not an issue of Florida, it is an issue for the US.   I do not make assumptions from news reports.  If you should notice in prior postings,  I will usually give reference to my information.  I deliberately have not referenced any talking heads or their corresponding publications.  My entire career decisions are based on science.  Some of the best professors I had (an very distinguished physicians) have always taught me to follow the science. 

 

The tone and implications in your post is is not warranted, but more important not factual.  

Sorry you are upset with my “tone”.... and, what did I say that was not factual??

BTW.. your “tone” to me leaves a great deal to be desired, as well.
 

Edited by Bellaggio Cruisers
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1 hour ago, Travelcat2 said:

Please do not try to make decisions for others.  

Can you give an example of where this happened? I would agree that we shouldn't try to make cruising decisions for others. Just haven't seen it on this board. Is it ok to explain why we decided not to cruise until there is a vaccine? I also hope it's ok to try hard to make decisions for others to wear a mask.

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1 hour ago, Travelcat2 said:

If the pandemic is still going (which is likely), we will self-quarantine when we get home just to be on the safe side.  

By the same token, should you not self-quarantine before you get on the cruise in case you inadvertently bring it from home or pick it up on your way to the cruise?

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When even Business Insider reports that wearing masks has become politicized in the US, well....or, seriously, just google 'masks', 'US', 'politicized' and read reports all across the reporting spectrum.  Or just read of the incidents where mask wearing is disputed, sometimes violently....all I can say is if there is a neighborhood is 100% mask wearing, it's an anomaly in the US.  Be happy if there are enough people who want to protect their neighbors, and expect the neighbors to protect them, and follow through on that commitment.  

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/masks-political-symbol-coronavirus-covid-19-spanish-1918-flu-pandemic-2020-5

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4 minutes ago, Bellaggio Cruisers said:

Sorry you are upset with my “tone”.... and, what did I say that was not factual ?
 

Interesting I called two former classmates that are working as Intensivist ICU docs in Palm Beach County Florida (in two different larger hospitals) and they said the ICUs are like a war zone down there.  Both indicated that masks where not even required by State Law. Speaking to my colleagues, where I live, in Baltimore (where masks are required by law) they are not seeing anywhere near the amount of acutely ill patients.  Hopkins runs an excellent site that will break down all of the metrics (New cases, infection rate, positivity rate, etc.) and it is interesting to compare the rates of  SARS-CoV-2 rates are in States with required mask usage and those without.  

 

As I articulated previously, I deliberately do not quote from the talking heads (CNN or FOX) nor their online sites, as they both seem to be driven by a particular slant.  As a start, I would like to suggest a more clinically based article that can be accessed by the following hyperlink. https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/87617  It is noted in the fifth paragraph how this has become a political statement.  Albeit, not a peer reviewed article, once you get away from the talking heads you get more focused, unbiased information. 

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3 minutes ago, howiefrommd said:

Interesting I called two former classmates that are working as Intensivist ICU docs in Palm Beach County Florida (in two different larger hospitals) and they said the ICUs are like a war zone down there.  Both indicated that masks where not even required by State Law. Speaking to my colleagues, where I live, in Baltimore (where masks are required by law) they are not seeing anywhere near the amount of acutely ill patients.  Hopkins runs an excellent site that will break down all of the metrics (New cases, infection rate, positivity rate, etc.) and it is interesting to compare the rates of  SARS-CoV-2 rates are in States with required mask usage and those without.  

 

As I articulated previously, I deliberately do not quote from the talking heads (CNN or FOX) nor their online sites, as they both seem to be driven by a particular slant.  As a start, I would like to suggest a more clinically based article that can be accessed by the following hyperlink. https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/87617  It is noted in the fifth paragraph how this has become a political statement.  Albeit, not a peer reviewed article, once you get away from the talking heads you get more focused, unbiased information. 

FYI....I live in Palm Beach county, where masks are mandated in public.  

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I only wish we could factually say there was anyplace in the US that we could say masks were worn without complaint.  I know it's not mine, and it's not Palm Beach County either, apparently.

 

Maskless man pulls gun on masked man in Palm Beach County

 

https://news.yahoo.com/maskless-man-pulled-gun-masked-214800850.html

 

Opponents sue Palm Beach County over mask mandate (fortunately in my view, judge upheld mask mandate)

 

https://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/20200701/opponents-sue-palm-beach-county-to-block-mask-mandate

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/masks-are-putting-people-at-each-others-throats-especially-in-palm-beach-county/ar-BB16jsXh

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Bellaggio Cruisers said:

FYI....I live in Palm Beach county, where masks are mandated in public.  

Just took a look at the statistics for Palm Beach County.  They have a very high rate of positivity, hospitalizations and deaths. It looks like third in a State (an Florida is either number one or two in the US right now) that is having problems getting this under control.  Obviously you and your community are quite compliant, but if you look at the numbers, it is quite dangerous.  

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Cruising is a personal decision while wearing masks should be mandatory for every person above the age of 2 when they leave the house.  Decisions not to wear masks and not to social distance is killing thousands of people every day.   Wearing masks is not political - it is one way of helping to save lives.  A person can decide not to cruise, not wear a mask or social distance and could still make others sick (or possibly kill them).  

 

I am not going to kill anyone if we take a cruise (travlr21, we have barely left the house in 4 1/2 months and when we do, we wear a gloves, a mask and, I wear a face shield in addition to the mask.  Your comment is correct and understood.

 

howiehowiefrommd - the only information that we follow is from a Medical Doctor, Virologist or Scientist.  The last sentence in your response to Bellagio Cruiser is puzzling.  What did she say that was not warranted or factual?  From the posts on CC, it seems that Bellagio Cruiser is in favor of wearing masks, social distancing, washing hands, etc.  Kindly elaborate.  Thank you.

 

As has been posted, some posters have repeatedly asked not to tell them what to do (or make decisions for them).  You can state whatever opinion that you wish but kindly leave others out of it.  I have read just about every Covid-19 thread on CC since mid-March and cannot tell you how many times people make negative comments about people that are anxious to return to cruising (when the protocols are in place and the ban is lifted).  However, I do not see posts criticizing those that do not want to cruise.  I can think of plenty of negative things to say but do not post them.  The strongest comment that I've made is in the first paragraph of this post.  

 

The facts about the mask issue is fairly clear.  In April and May numbers of new Covid cases were going down (it took some states a bit longer but I'm generalizing here).  As soon as the weather heated up (June), the numbers increased dramatically.  In April and May it is likely that people were frightened and followed the "stay at home" order.  By June, they were tired of it and places were re-opening.  IMO, had people continued to do most of the things that they had been doing prior to June (masks, social distancing, hand washing), the numbers would have remained low.  

 

In terms of the "tone" of someone's post, how does one determine that?  The written word is so often misunderstood as people are trying to determine the "tone" of the post.  Some posters make a joke and others misunderstand that it is a joke and are offended rather than realizing that none of us have any idea what a person is thinking or what their mood is (angry, spiteful, trying to be. helpful or ???)

 

Note:  In Los Angeles, they are now fining people for not wearing masks.  IMO, it is about time that there were consequences for potentially exposing others to the virus just because you don't like wearing a mask.  Just read this morning that Delta Airlines will not only require masks. for anyone over the age of 2 but include people that may have medical issues when wearing a mask.  While that sounds harsh, it is better than people lying about having a condition that they do not have in order to avoid wearing a mask.  Perhaps, in the future, Delta and other airlines will permit notes from your physician (but again, this can lead to fraudulent notes, etc.)

 

 

Edited by Travelcat2
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2 minutes ago, Travelcat2 said:

howiefrommd - the only information that we follow is from a Medical Doctor, Virologist or Scientist.  The last sentence in your response to Bellagio Cruiser is puzzling.  What did she say that was not warranted or factual?  From the posts on CC, it seems that Bellagio Cruiser is in favor of wearing masks, social distancing, washing hands, etc.  Kindly elaborate.  Thank you.

 

I was trying to point out that masks have become a political issue.  In fact I provided a hyperlink to a well written, thoughtful, non-political piece that appeared in one of the medical journals I get daily.  

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3 minutes ago, howiefrommd said:

Just took a look at the statistics for Palm Beach County.  They have a very high rate of positivity, hospitalizations and deaths. It looks like third in a State (an Florida is either number one or two in the US right now) that is having problems getting this under control.  Obviously you and your community are quite compliant, but if you look at the numbers, it is quite dangerous.  

Just watching tv. Apparently, California is surging as well as 18 other states. Everyone agrees there is a serious problem. We have been in shelter for almost five months. Frankly, you offend me with your lectures. 
 

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1 hour ago, greykitty said:

Hmm, what if quarantine was imposed on passengers on immediately exiting the ship - being transported to a holding area for those 10-14 days?  That might mitigate a bit how many others would be exposed, rather than allowing passengers to head home in private or public transportation, no?

Obviously, this would help mitigate the problem of covid spikes caused by cruising.  But what a joy-kill.  How many people would want to go on a cruise if they knew they had to undergo 2 weeks of solitary (or couple) confinement when they got off the ship?

 

31 minutes ago, travlr21 said:

By the same token, should you not self-quarantine before you get on the cruise in case you inadvertently bring it from home or pick it up on your way to the cruise?

Same comments as above, doubled.  Both great ideas for controlling covid, but way more than people would do for a leisure activity.

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1 minute ago, howiefrommd said:

I was trying to point out that masks have become a political issue.  In fact I provided a hyperlink to a well written, thoughtful, non-political piece that appeared in one of the medical journals I get daily.  

 

Thank you for the explanation!  Agree that it has become political but with people in the government now having the virus and the recent deaths, people in all political parties are beginning to see the necessity of wearing a mask.  Unfortunately, it took too long for everyone to "get it".

 

Sheila - we have been at home since "our" cruise was canceled on March 13th (we do go to the market and to a restaurant that takes social distancing to a new level and 100% of the staff and guests wear a mask when not eating).  Thankfully, this restaurant has been healthy since it reopened about a month ago.

 

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