Antarctica on Westerdam....in 2022? How?

[foodsvcmgr]

I don’t know how one could access them directly but most cruise lines have a former cruise ship or naval officer in charge of itinerary planning and the operational logistics involved.

This would be the person who is responsible for Regulatory compliance and would/should be aware of the ramifications of the Polar Code.

[rkacruiser]

1 hour ago, foodsvcmgr said:

but most cruise lines have a former cruise ship or naval officer in charge of itinerary planning

 

Unless he has been laid off or retired, HAL Director of Itinerary Planning has been a former Captain of HAL ships.  I sailed with him when he was the Master of the Zaandam soon after the ship's arrival to the fleet.  

[cruisemom42]

2 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

 

Unless he has been laid off or retired, HAL Director of Itinerary Planning has been a former Captain of HAL ships.  I sailed with him when he was the Master of the Zaandam soon after the ship's arrival to the fleet.  

 

Care to share a name so that those of us who are concerned could try to reach out to him via HAL channels?

[foodsvcmgr]

Most certainly that would be the man to ask if contact could be made.

[bizeesheri]

I found a staff member of the Itinerary group on LinkedIn, and they list their email.  I'm going to reply to the person who answered my email and CC that other person and reiterate the concern.     

[rkacruiser]

On 8/8/2020 at 4:06 PM, cruisemom42 said:

 

Care to share a name so that those of us who are concerned could try to reach out to him via HAL channels?

 

I have thought about your request for over 24 hours now.  

 

I do not feel that it is appropriate for me to state his name on a public message board.  

 

#1:  I don't know if he still holds that position.  He may be "on the beach" along with others.

#2:  Major staff reductions have taken place in the Seattle HAL Office.  Having numerous inquiries directed to the Itinerary Planning Director and his/her staff simply because some on CC want to know about a "future of cruising" that even they may not be completely sure will occur seems improper to me.  It's an infringement on whatever staff's time that is available, I think.

 

I understand why those who have cruises booked wish more information.  I wish you well in obtaining what information you desire.      

 

 

 

 

[cruisemom42]

2 hours ago, rkacruiser said:

 

I have thought about your request for over 24 hours now.  

 

I do not feel that it is appropriate for me to state his name on a public message board.  

 

#1:  I don't know if he still holds that position.  He may be "on the beach" along with others.

#2:  Major staff reductions have taken place in the Seattle HAL Office.  Having numerous inquiries directed to the Itinerary Planning Director and his/her staff simply because some on CC want to know about a "future of cruising" that even they may not be completely sure will occur seems improper to me.  It's an infringement on whatever staff's time that is available, I think.

 

I understand why those who have cruises booked wish more information.  I wish you well in obtaining what information you desire.      

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks -- nicely worded and I understand your reasons. I just thought it was worth asking the question, as perhaps if you knew the person you might know whether they were open to that kind of query.

 

I still have almost a year and a half to ferret out an answer. 

[rkacruiser]

30 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Thanks -- nicely worded and I understand your reasons. I just thought it was worth asking the question, as perhaps if you knew the person you might know whether they were open to that kind of query.

 

I still have almost a year and a half to ferret out an answer. 

 

Thanks for your kind response.  

[bluesplayer]

Hi Bizeesheri,

  You may try responding to Joshua’s email.  Something like

  “Thank you for your response however my specific question is:  (list question)

Would you have any information??  

Worth a second try??

 

[Roger88]

On 8/8/2020 at 9:05 PM, foodsvcmgr said:

I don’t know how one could access them directly but most cruise lines have a former cruise ship or naval officer in charge of itinerary planning and the operational logistics involved.

This would be the person who is responsible for Regulatory compliance and would/should be aware of the ramifications of the Polar Code.

This is exactly what I have thought of. There is always a person to address this kind of issue to, especially in cruise companies. That person should be aware of almost (if not all) all the operations regarding a certain cruise and a state being  aware of all the itinerary panning

[Turtles06]

7 hours ago, Roger88 said:

This is exactly what I have thought of. There is always a person to address this kind of issue to, especially in cruise companies. That person should be aware of almost (if not all) all the operations regarding a certain cruise and a state being  aware of all the itinerary panning

But as the comments above show, that person is not someone directly available to the public, and inquires to those who field calls and emails generally are not passed along to that person for a reply. 
 

Perhaps those who are emailing HAL (especially after getting an absurd form letter response the first time) might try requesting that their questions be given to that person for an adequate reply.

 

Good luck! 

[drowelf]

On 8/8/2020 at 9:15 AM, bizeesheri said:

I received a reply to my email to HAL.  I don't get the feeling that he read my question which included the Antarctica rules.

I sent the email here:   Office of the President (HAL) <Officeofthepresident@HollandAmerica.com>

Received the reply from here:  Reservations Submit <Reservations_Submit@hollandamerica.com>

 

 

Dear  xxxxx,

 

Thank you for your recent correspondence with Holland America Line regarding upcoming cruise.

 

Our guest and crew are our highest concern so we will continue to review these itineraries during this time and advise our guests as soon as there is any needs for changes.

 

Please feel free to contact us if we may be of additional assistance or visit us online. We look forward to welcoming you onboard in the near future!

 

Kind Regards,

 

Joshua

Holland America Line

U.S. and Canada: 877-724-5425

Thats a pretty good non-answer to a specific question. 

[drowelf]

22 hours ago, bluesplayer said:

Hi Bizeesheri,

  You may try responding to Joshua’s email.  Something like

  “Thank you for your response however my specific question is:  (list question)

Would you have any information??  

Worth a second try??

 

I had to have a conversation like this with an airline many years ago. Sent in a complaint to customer relations, received a very nice form type letter that did not even come close to addressing my issue. My reply was along the lines of "Thank your very much for taking the time to send me a reply, but I would appreciate a reply that actually addressed my concerns as expressed in the original email, which I have attached for your attention again."

 

That one eventually ended up with someone actually reading the original issue email and taking some positive action. It could also be that the DOT complaint I filed after the initial failed communication may have had something to do with it too. 

Edited August 10, 2020 by drowelf

[rkacruiser]

I have found the old fashioned snail mail letter sent "Registered, Return Receipt Requested" to get more attention than most e-mails that I have sent to whatever entity.  

 

Costs a bit more than 55 cents, but, if one really wants a non-generic response from a company, individual, etc., it may be worth one to make such an investment.  

[TiogaCruiser]

1 hour ago, drowelf said:

I had to have a conversation like this with an airline many years ago. Sent in a complaint to customer relations, received a very nice form type letter that did not even come close to addressing my issue. My reply was along the lines of "Thank your very much for taking the time to send me a reply, but I would appreciate a reply that actually addressed my concerns as expressed in the original email, which I have attached for your attention again."

 

That one eventually ended up with someone actually reading the original issue email and taking some positive action. It could also be that the DOT complaint I filed after the initial failed communication may have had something to do with it too. 

That was a bit kinder than a reply I sent to a major US retailer a few years back. I had ordered and paid for an item and was getting the run around in Customer Service. The replies were obviously canned and had absolutely nothing to do with my issue. I sent the whole string of emails back under a new subject: “XYZ’s Customer Service Needs Improvement”

 

I got immediate, appropriate service from a supervisor.

[bizeesheri]

Dear Ms. XXXX,

Thank you for your continued correspondence with Holland America Line regarding your upcoming cruise on the ms Westerdam January 30, 2021 voyage. Booking number XXXXXX.

We currently show that the Antarctic Experience is on the January 5, 2022 ms Westerdam voyage, however we do not know if this will change or not. If this does change guests will be notified.

We look forward to welcoming you onboard in the near future.

Best Regards,

XXXXXX
Resolution Specialist
 

[foodsvcmgr]

Thanks for trying.

As usual a very vague answer that actually applies to any cruise at any time, appearing not to have been referred to someone who might actually have knowledge of the code but rather just a standard reply from the “resolution specialist”.

If in fact they will not be able to do the drive by then there is no need for the cruise to be that long and certainly the fares would need to be reduced considerably without the pricy attraction of Antarctica.

[Mandalay1903]

Thank you bizeesheri for reaching out and sharing the answer to our mutual question. I booked the January 5, 2022 cruise several weeks ago knowing that there were questions about the Westerdam's Polar Code certification.  When I asked through HAL about the certification situation, they said they'd forwarded my question to Fleet Operations, who replied that there would be no issues with Westerdam's certification--also a fairly vague answer.  I'm interested in what happens with the Antarctic Experience cruises this December and January, if Covid-19 allows them to depart. 

 

Indeed, in winter 2021/22 if they need to rework these cruises they'll have to come up with something really interesting to fill the six days or totally rework the timing of these cruises.

[AncientWanderer]

On 7/5/2020 at 10:01 AM, cruisemom42 said:

 

Thanks -- comments like yours and kazu's do a lot to reinforce my original thinking on the trip. Everyone just focuses so intensely on Antarctica. 

 

And on the positive side, if I don't go (there or anywhere else, apparently) until 2022, I will have lots of time to prepare. If you have any favorite books or other sources to recommend, please do so!

 

 

Having Antarctica and South America on the brain today, a particular book came to mind about Patagonia.  It's an obscure one that was written in the 1930s -- tedious at times, but it really made the region come to life.  Very authentic.  A Yankee in Patagonia, Edward Chace, written with Robert Le Moyne Barrett.

 

I really enjoyed reading works by Isabel Allende, and read a whole lot about Eva Peron -- super fascinating, but the old cowboy story of Edward Chace made Patagonia real to me.  

Of course, we didn't make it all the way to Antarctica last trip, only as far as South America.  For Antarctica I'd also look for things that focus on that continent.

[Two4Sea]

For interest:

 

 

Bill

[bizeesheri]

@twoforsea So are you saying they did change the write up for the Antarctica 4 days recently?  I note that the description is the same for all 4 days.  not good.  Unless it was that way before  LOL.     

[Mandalay1903]

 

22 minutes ago, bizeesheri said:

So are you saying they did change the write up for the Antarctica 4 days recently?

HAL's write up of the 4 days of Antarctica Experience hasn't changed since the previous time I'd checked on July 7. They continue to refer to passing by a number of named points of interest located well south of 60, presumably passing closer than a few hundred miles... 🙂

[cruisemom42]

1 hour ago, bizeesheri said:

@twoforsea So are you saying they did change the write up for the Antarctica 4 days recently?  I note that the description is the same for all 4 days.  not good.  Unless it was that way before  LOL.     

 

The description is supposed to cover all four days of cruising. They just keep repeating it per day, but it covers the period. It hasn't changed.

 

I remain confused, however, on the terms under which some of these ships (looking at you, HAL) could sail there under the terms of the Polar Code...

 

[Ken the cruiser]

11 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

The description is supposed to cover all four days of cruising. They just keep repeating it per day, but it covers the period. It hasn't changed.

 

I remain confused, however, on the terms under which some of these ships (looking at you, HAL) could sail there under the terms of the Polar Code...

 

There is an interesting discussion you might be intetested in about this general subject over on the Seabourn forum on a thread entitled "Antarctica in December, Final Payment Due Soon". 

[cruisemom42]

3 minutes ago, Ken the cruiser said:

There is an interesting discussion you might be intetested in about this general subject over on the Seabourn forum on a thread entitled "Antarctica in December, Final Payment Due Soon". 

 

I read it -- it's quoted above. Quest is a different case, I think. Our chief engineer still seems to have his doubts about other ships.