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Any signs of bankrupcy for any major cruiselines?


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5 hours ago, drsel said:

considering almost zero price inflation along with the deterioration in standards and quality, whether it is better value now or in the past is debatable.

 

 

 

 

 

 

There comes a point where the product is so downgraded that it is not worth the time or even the little amount of money it costs. Value is not only determined by cost - you have to want, appreciate, and enjoy it for what it is - regardless of how much less it sells than something you would really enjoy.

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2 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

Value is not only determined by cost - you have to want, appreciate, and enjoy it for what it is -

 

That is precisely what I found when I sailed on MSC Meraviglia in Yacht Club.

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18 hours ago, FredT said:

The sad reality is that while many people like you SAY they would pay more for the product.....  The reality is that few do.  You see this time and time again with the airlines.  Everyone bitches about the size and legroom of the seats in tourist class... Then the same people refuse to pay additional for more room and book the cheapest seats available. 

 

Totally agree, they also complain about the luggage weight restriction in Coach as an excuse for not wearing a Tux, when we all know they can pay for additional suitcases when in Coach.

For us, flying is a necessary pain and not a pleasant experience, so we pay to make it as comfortable as we can.  Additional suitcases included is a bonus.

On a irlines, the cost of a seat upgrade is not that much more than paying for an additional suitcase at check-in. 

 

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19 hours ago, FredT said:

The sad reality is that while many people like you SAY they would pay more for the product.....  The reality is that few do.  You see this time and time again with the airlines.  Everyone bitches about the size and legroom of the seats in tourist class... Then the same people refuse to pay additional for more room and book the cheapest seats available. 

 

The question is if they are more likely to be prepared to pay more if the increased price also give a higher quality than if it's only increased because the cruiselines must pay their debts.

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37 minutes ago, PORT ROYAL said:

 

Totally agree, they also complain about the luggage weight restriction in Coach as an excuse for not wearing a Tux, when we all know they can pay for additional suitcases when in Coach.

For us, flying is a necessary pain and not a pleasant experience, so we pay to make it as comfortable as we can.  Additional suitcases included is a bonus.

On a irlines, the cost of a seat upgrade is not that much more than paying for an additional suitcase at check-in. 

 

You seem to think that everybody has lots of money to throw about. Take a deep breath and look at how many people in the UK and worldwide are loosing their jobs on a daily basis. If everybody could afford the best then there would be no mass cruise market, everybody would sail with the likes of Ponant. 

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12 minutes ago, gerryuk said:

You seem to think that everybody has lots of money to throw about. Take a deep breath and look at how many people in the UK and worldwide are loosing their jobs on a daily basis. If everybody could afford the best then there would be no mass cruise market, everybody would sail with the likes of Ponant. 

 

Port royals point was that many people say that they are prepared to pay more for a better product but don't do it.  

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10 minutes ago, gerryuk said:

You seem to think that everybody has lots of money to throw about. Take a deep breath and look at how many people in the UK and worldwide are loosing their jobs on a daily basis. If everybody could afford the best then there would be no mass cruise market, everybody would sail with the likes of Ponant. 

 

Sorry, but one does not understand your perceived rant.

We did a part WC last year on QM and the difference between a BA coach seat and WT+ was £150.00 pp.  The BA charge for an additional suitcase in Coach was over £100.00, so it was a no brainier for about £40.00 more.

According to your premise, being willing to pay £40.00 for a better seat, food and flying experience, one is perceived as having lots of money to throw about. 

 

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1 hour ago, PORT ROYAL said:

 

Sorry, but one does not understand your perceived rant.

We did a part WC last year on QM and the difference between a BA coach seat and WT+ was £150.00 pp.  The BA charge for an additional suitcase in Coach was over £100.00, so it was a no brainier for about £40.00 more.

According to your premise, being willing to pay £40.00 for a better seat, food and flying experience, one is perceived as having lots of money to throw about. 

 

Might be OK if you live in the  UK

 

Just looking at next April to LHR

EC $273   Premium $1429 BUS  $3557

Seems more than $40 just to get extra baggage included

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On 7/8/2020 at 2:19 PM, navybankerteacher said:

The deterioration of standards to keep fares down has taken virtually all mass market lines off our list.  Our first NCL cruise (on Norway) was a pleasure - later ones (repeated only because of great itinerary: Boston to St. George, Bermuda for several days in port) became less and less worth the fare. HAL, which used to be superior to other mass market lines, has joined Princess, Royal Caribbean, Carnival and Celebrity in cheapening the experience while increasing the crowding.  Only Cunard retains some interest - largely because of QM2’s trans-Atlantic service.

 

Low price alone, while great, does not warrant spending ANY amount on a shoddy product. The lines did not resist inflation - they simply cheapened their product.

I love your last paragraph! Frankly, people seem to complain at every level, be it economy or luxury.

 

I am an optician employed in a small, private practice. People are constantly asking me, "when did glasses get so expensive?" My response... "when did glasses get so CHEAP?" Our prices haven't gone up in ten years. They buy garbage on line and expect me to fix and adjust them. And to pay nothing for services rendered by professionals. People expect so much for so little.

 

When I was hungry and broke, I learned how to cook. We all deserve better than fast food. Now I choose my cruise lines carefully, and I travel when it's in the budget. Small ships, luxury lines, great itineraries. Perhaps fewer trips than I'd like, but better quality!

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Might be OK if you live in the  UK
 
Just looking at next April to LHR
EC $273   Premium $1429 BUS  $3557
Seems more than $40 just to get extra baggage included
I agree. Its the Robin hood principle of life that the airlines adopt
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I doubt that any of big companies will go bankrupt. The only way out for them is to merge their company with their other daughter companies or even some other bigger companies. An ordinary traveler will notice any changes but the company itself will go though some drastic management redesigns.. well, we will have to live and see it with our own eyes  

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According to CNBC:

"Shares of Carnival surged 9.5% after the cruise operator said it is seeing demand for voyages in 2021, with the majority of bookings being new and not from rescheduling, and will restart voyages from Germany in August.

The company also said on a conference call that it can be cash flow break even at a capacity between 30% and 50%"
CNBC’s Seema Modi reports

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12 minutes ago, drsel said:

According to CNBC:

"Shares of Carnival surged 9.5% after the cruise operator said it is seeing demand for voyages in 2021, with the majority of bookings being new and not from rescheduling, and will restart voyages from Germany in August.

The company also said on a conference call that it can be cash flow break even at a capacity between 30% and 50%"
CNBC’s Seema Modi reports
 

The entire report was quoted in another forum, Princess. The one thing that caught my eye among that contrasted to all the positive things they mentioned was that they were not yet in serious contact with the CDC about resuming cruises in the USA. Will it matter how low their capacity be to turn a profit or how much demand there is if no cruises are allowed in the USA?

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22 hours ago, drsel said:

At least MSC, Carnival and Royal Caribbean should survive this crisis.
I am not so sure about Norwegian

NCLH's auditors just changed their opinion about that and no longer have their previously stated "substantial doubt about NCLH's ability to continue as a going concern".

 

https://www.thestreet.com/investing/norwegian-cruise-line-nclh-auditor-going-concern-warning-removed

 

"Auditors for Norwegian Cruise Line remove the phrase 'substantial doubt about NCLH’s ability to continue as a going concern' thanks to the company's 'liquidity and management plans.'"

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On 7/9/2020 at 8:54 PM, Roger88 said:

I doubt that any of big companies will go bankrupt. The only way out for them is to merge their company with their other daughter companies or even some other bigger companies. An ordinary traveler will notice any changes but the company itself will go though some drastic management redesigns.. well, we will have to live and see it with our own eyes  

Roger - you do write some rubbish!

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1 hour ago, drsel said:

The company also said on a conference call that it can be cash flow break even at a capacity between 30% and 50%"

OK, that seems weasly words to me. What it means that at, say 50% capacity it can cover its operating costs. Not making a profit, and certainly not covering the repayments on its debts. So, in due course it will go bankrupt.  

I may be mistaken, and would be happy to be corrected.

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4 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

I was wondering if anyone else noticed

He keeps popping up on a UK forum, spouting inanities that are totally irrelevant. 

I know I should ignore him, but he writes such rubbish that I keep rising to the bait, which perhaps is his purpose. 

He has certainly never written anything which has been of the slightest use or interest. 

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We are aren't even to first base on this pandemic here in the US so what will 2022 be like?

 

Interesting read on NYT: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/10/opinion/sunday/coronavirus-economy-two-years.html

 

"Large swaths of the cruise-ship and theme-park industries might go away.... 

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1 hour ago, wowzz said:

OK, that seems weasly words to me. What it means that at, say 50% capacity it can cover its operating costs. Not making a profit, and certainly not covering the repayments on its debts. So, in due course it will go bankrupt.  

I may be mistaken, and would be happy to be corrected.

You're correct. Eventually the inability to pay their debt service would bankrupt the cruise lines.

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