NCL/RCL team to develop reopening plans for CDC

[John G]

41 minutes ago, Wendy The Wanderer said:

The whole water thing on Hurtigruten is ridiculous.  When I was seriously contemplating doing one in 2018, I was following the discussions about the water thing.  Did you get a carafe of free water on your dining table or not?   . . .

 

I think advertising for most of the cruise lines borders on the ridiculous. Regent, not to be outdone – after all, they’re the most inclusive line! – joins in the fun and also touts free water in the cabins:

 

" . . . in your suite, your mini-bar is replenished daily with soft drinks, beer and bottled water — all complimentary."

 

(Source: https://www.rssc.com/experience/all-included# under the "Free Open Bars and Lounges" tab)

 

Yeah yeah yeah, not quite the same deal as with Hurtigruten, but awfully close.

[Travelcat2]

9 minutes ago, John G said:

 

I think advertising for most of the cruise lines borders on the ridiculous. Regent, not to be outdone – after all, they’re the most inclusive line! – joins in the fun and also touts free water in the cabins:

 

" . . . in your suite, your mini-bar is replenished daily with soft drinks, beer and bottled water — all complimentary."

 

(Source: https://www.rssc.com/experience/all-included# under the "Free Open Bars and Lounges" tab)

 

Yeah yeah yeah, not quite the same deal as with Hurtigruten, but awfully close.

 

Good point but the Hurtigruten ships look worse than the ships Carnival is going to send to salvage!

[rallydave]

13 minutes ago, pappy1022 said:

Don’t see how you can make the claim based on this from the CDC. The quote came from the CLIA guy not the CDC. To me, this article says we are a long way off from coming to any agreement. Maybe I am missing something.

Agree with you Pappy.  There is absolutely nothing in that article that talks about a cruise line being ready with a plan or ready with an industry plan.

 

There is absolutely no agreement on individual plans or industry wide plans and based on the the comment that the intentions of the CDC are unknown in this regard and the huge amount of work on their part to negotiate and approve many individual plans IMHO it is unlikely CDC will want to take the huge effort of approving individual plans.

 

Did read in another article I cannot find now that the CDC even with thousands of employees is concerned over the amount of time and effort it would take to negotiated and approve individual plans.

[SusieQft]

They will probably eventually have a uniform set of criteria that the cruise lines have to meet, and also will need to approve the individual cruise lines' ability to meet those standards.  So it is likely to be a combination of both.

[Travelcat2]

52 minutes ago, rallydave said:

Agree with you Pappy.  There is absolutely nothing in that article that talks about a cruise line being ready with a plan or ready with an industry plan.

 

There is absolutely no agreement on individual plans or industry wide plans and based on the the comment that the intentions of the CDC are unknown in this regard and the huge amount of work on their part to negotiate and approve many individual plans IMHO it is unlikely CDC will want to take the huge effort of approving individual plans.

 

Did read in another article I cannot find now that the CDC even with thousands of employees is concerned over the amount of time and effort it would take to negotiated and approve individual plans.

 

Actually, it was you that claimed that CLIA would be working on behalf of all cruise lines with the CDC (obviously not true but I can search for your post if you like). 

 

Wondering if it is possible to keep the negativity on the threads that already exist (the ones predicting the end of Regent, their horrible financial future, etc?  It would be nice to simply discuss Regent without going into the worst case scenarios. 

 

Discussing masks, how Regent might change the configurations of their ships, what their new protocols might consist of.......  things that we can discuss that are not all positive but at least are not predicting doom and gloom for the industry.  I posted the article so that posters could perhaps discuss the pro's and con's of an "Industry Plan" vs. a "Individual Company approach". 

 

 

[greykitty]

I was under the impression that CLIA was trying to coordinate the cruise industry's response ever since the initial meeting with VP Pence way back when.  There were numerous reports to that effect at the time.

 

https://www.travelagentcentral.com/cruises/after-meeting-vp-pence-clia-promises-new-coronavirus-plan

 

Following the meeting, CLIA reported that the organization and its member lines have committed to more stringent boarding procedures, additional onboard medical resources and temperature screenings at embarkation. Additionally, the cruise industry will also develop industry-funded protocols to care for guests on land in the event of an incident. Importantly, CLIA said that this would eliminate future incidents of onboard quarantine. 

Details on the plan should come this week, CLIA said. 

“We thank the Vice President for a productive meeting marked by our shared focus on public health,” CLIA said in a statement following the meeting. “We are pleased to know the government agencies are prepared to work with us in developing these aggressive new measures. We expect to report back this week with further details of this enhanced approach to protecting public health.”

[rallydave]

6 minutes ago, Travelcat2 said:

Actually, it was you that claimed that CLIA would be working on behalf of all cruise lines with the CDC (obviously not true but I can search for your post if you like).

Yes, back when this all started and Vice President Pence called the parties together it was going to be a CLIA to CDC negotiation.  At this point in time there is still the possibility of of CLIA working on behalf of all cruise lines or less possibility cruise lines one by one negotiating with CDC so your obviously not true is itself obviously not true as there is still a good possibility that CLIA will negotiate the protocols for the industry 

[greykitty]

I was also thinking of how in the world would cruise holding company A spin the PR of, hey, one of our lines is safe enough to sail on, but not the others.   

 

I would think the all the cruise lines will work to be able to assure passengers than every single ship in all their fleets at every price point meets (and hopefully exceeds) whatever protocols end up being passed.  

[greykitty]

I'm looking forward to seeing how the crew living/eating/recreational areas will be altered in view of COVID, and how the ships, especially the smaller ones, will handle the logistics of enhanced medical staffing and facilities.  I don't envy the folks who have to figure out how to just physically enable best practices in what's usually a very limited amount of space.  

[pappy1022]

46 minutes ago, Travelcat2 said:

Wondering if it is possible to keep the negativity on the threads that already exist (the ones predicting the end of Regent, their horrible financial future, etc?  It would be nice to simply discuss Regent without going into the worst case scenarios. 

 

This is the standard response when the pollyannaish perspective is given to any comment that is not ultra positive Regent and there isn’t a good counter point to the argument stated. The cruise industry has severe issues, Regent included. To mask these issue is not being honest about the challenges facing the industry. To take an article and draw conclusions that aren’t supported by evidence in the article is just plain blindness.

[pappy1022]

18 minutes ago, Travelcat2 said:

 

As I was reminded on CC last week, political comments are not permitted.  Covid-19 is not political - it is a worldwide health crisis.  Whatever is being done in this country is not working.  Hopefully every one of the states will adopt a policy of wearing masks, social distancing and washing hands.  This is the only defense we have against this virus at the moment.

.

Are you sure that you are responding to the right topic? This makes no sense.

[Gcto]

13 minutes ago, Travelcat2 said:

 

Further, it is very possible that some cruise lines will be approved by the CDC while others may have more work to do.

while that might be a hopeful though, I doubt the CDC would do this. The administration and legal implications are just to much, imho. 

I understand you want Regent to sail soon and (if safe) we all want. But in the absence of information, people speculate and assume things. Some of the assumptions are just that, others are based on facts and knowledge. There a plenty of smart people on this board who have seen a thing or two...and with no information coming from Regent, we are just guessing. Now, I don't think Regent has all the information either, but I do think they have some inclination of what they might be able to do and what is already out. As they are continue to collect money (Regent Assurance or not), their clients (aka Us) are free to worry about what will happen and ...what the next step will be. 

Do I think Regent will survive....yes

Do I think Regent will try to be safe and not rush it....yes

So we all have our opinions and we all hope for the best, but...in our own way. Different opinions are just that... and we should accept it. 

 

On the lighter side....here's a pic from the cartoon Dilbert 🙂

 

 

[greykitty]

4 minutes ago, pappy1022 said:

Are you sure that you are responding to the right topic? This makes no sense.

Oh, good - I thought for a moment I had wandered into the Twilight Zone. 

[greykitty]

Not in the mood to make an interest-free  loan to any cruise line at the moment for a product that may or may not be delivered. I think that's a reasonable stance to take, while observing the cruise industry during these challenging times.  Don't you agree?

 

.

[fizzy]

Have there been any "fit to sail" guidelines ever discussed again? If so, I wonder if they would be suggestions or actual mandates in the beginning.

[greykitty]

The EU Healthy Gateways in its initial draft guidance didn't mandate 'fit to sail

by age', but did mention age cohorts and advising those over 65 and/or with certain chronic conditions to seek medical assessment before sailing.  It's been noted that the EU Healthy Gateways was fairly similar to CDC discussions early on.  I wouldn't be surprised to see the CDC take a similar tack themselves.

 

There have been many comments on CC boards that insurance underwriters may be amending policies to deal with COVID; personally I wouldn't be amazed if a lot of attention were paid to mitigating risk with regard to the most at-risk demographics (which includes certain chronic conditions at any age).

 

"No doctor's note required

There is no requirement that older people or those with underlying health conditions obtain a doctor's note to cruise. However, anyone over 65 or those of any age with chronic disease (cardiovascular, diabetes, respiratory) and immunocompromised individuals should be advised to see a doctor to assess if they are fit to travel, the guidance stated.

Many recommendations cover familiar ground, but others seem new.

Activities organized by age group

For example, the guidelines suggest activities and services on board could be organized according to age group, so that older individuals are separated from other age groups. Crew members in high risk groups could work in positions where there is little or no interaction with other individuals.

Cohorts

Another recommendation is dividing passengers and crew into cohorts. Each group could be given scheduled times for food service, embarking and disembarking and participating in some on-board activities. Interaction between each cohort should be avoided as much as possible. If it is not possible to maintain separate cohorts/groups on board, they should be kept for shore-based activities. Consideration may be given to cohorting groups of children for the duration of the voyage."

https://www.seatrade-cruise.com/news/eu-healthy-gateways-issues-covid-19-guidance-restarting-cruise-operations

 

 

Edited July 22, 2020 by greykitty

[greykitty]

You know, that's a question probably more specific to US cruise passengers - as I understand it, travel insurance, even medical insurance, is not always required when purchasing a cruise.  Some choose to self-insure, while others find themselves perhaps priced out of the market due to pre-existing conditions or age.   I've seen many sad posts regarding people who didn't carry sufficient, or any, insurance and found themselves in very unfortunate circumstances.

 

Do people think that going forward the cruise lines may insist on passengers carrying certain amounts of travel, medical, and evacuation insurance, especially vis a vis COVID?  Will that possibly be a way to 'winnow' out the unfit to sail, without requiring an actual fitness letter?

[Travelcat2]

 No cruise line is going to insist that a passenger, regardless of age, carry medical, travel or evacuation insurance.  Most companies will not even sell it right now.

 

It sounds as if some posters think that all cruise lines will submit the same protocols.  For instance, there is already set seating on many large ships and it will likely continue when sailing resumes.  Four of the Regent ships should have no difficulty maintaining open seating. especially when sailing at reduced occupancy.  The Navigator, OTOH, may have issues due to the size of the ship, the small size of La Veranda, the lack of specialty restaurants (P7 has to open in order for there to be enough seating in La Veranda.  

 

Activities could hardly be divided by age groups.  The majority of cruisers on Regent are seniors.  I suppose they could do something for the small group of people under the age of 40.  The areas where activities are held are small.  They use the atrium for many events and the pool deck for other events.  

 

On Regent, there is no one that is considered unfit to sail (unless they cannot do things independently).  However, there are quite a few guests on Regent that do require assistance walking (wheelchair, scooter, walker or cane).  My friend uses a scooter and has to have oxygen with her at all times.  She can probably get around better than some people half of her age.  Trying to discriminate against people that have sailed on Regent for years is definitely not something that Regent would want to do.  Last comment on this topic is that it is no one's business if someone has an underlying condition (like diabetes, cardiovascular, immunity issues or even cancer).  Since the CDC is in the United States, they are well aware of discrimination laws.

 

The only issue that I'm not sure how they will handle is port stops.  They can control occupancy of buses on excursions but buses make restroom stops, etc., so it can be iffy.  Also, many of us (especially my DH and I) enjoy walking around the town - checking out stores, etc.  Of course, we would wear a mask/face shield and gloves and carry disinfectant with us at all times (as we do in stores and restaurants now).

 

In any case, Regent understands what it needs to do and I have total confidence that they can get approval for their ships.  Again, the Navigator is a possible problem but if it ran at 50% capacity, Regent could handle it well (I just would not care to be on that ship during a pandemic but that is my issue and is not shared by many others). 

 

P.S.  Forgot to mention that, except during the summer and school vacations, there are generally only 1 or 2 children onboard Regent.  While this could change with home schooling, when there are children onboard (generally in Alaska), the Mariners Club takes care of them so it is already handled.

 

 

Edited July 22, 2020 by Travelcat2

[giustot]

3 hours ago, greykitty said:

The EU Healthy Gateways in its initial draft guidance didn't mandate 'fit to sail

by age', but did mention age cohorts and advising those over 65 and/or with certain chronic conditions to seek medical assessment before sailing.  It's been noted that the EU Healthy Gateways was fairly similar to CDC discussions early on.  I wouldn't be surprised to see the CDC take a similar tack themselves.

 

There have been many comments on CC boards that insurance underwriters may be amending policies to deal with COVID; personally I wouldn't be amazed if a lot of attention were paid to mitigating risk with regard to the most at-risk demographics (which includes certain chronic conditions at any age).

 

"No doctor's note required

There is no requirement that older people or those with underlying health conditions obtain a doctor's note to cruise. However, anyone over 65 or those of any age with chronic disease (cardiovascular, diabetes, respiratory) and immunocompromised individuals should be advised to see a doctor to assess if they are fit to travel, the guidance stated.

Many recommendations cover familiar ground, but others seem new.

Activities organized by age group

For example, the guidelines suggest activities and services on board could be organized according to age group, so that older individuals are separated from other age groups. Crew members in high risk groups could work in positions where there is little or no interaction with other individuals.

Cohorts

Another recommendation is dividing passengers and crew into cohorts. Each group could be given scheduled times for food service, embarking and disembarking and participating in some on-board activities. Interaction between each cohort should be avoided as much as possible. If it is not possible to maintain separate cohorts/groups on board, they should be kept for shore-based activities. Consideration may be given to cohorting groups of children for the duration of the voyage."

https://www.seatrade-cruise.com/news/eu-healthy-gateways-issues-covid-19-guidance-restarting-cruise-operations

 

 

I wonder if the people who came up with this guidance ever actually took a cruise.

 

As I have mentioned previously, if cruising resumes under such strict protocols, I doubt there will be enough passengers to make it worthwhile for ships to sail.

[Guerncruising]

On 7/15/2020 at 8:54 PM, Travelcat2 said:

 

Good point but the Hurtigruten ships look worse than the ships Carnival is going to send to salvage!

Hurtigruten have some of the most modern ships afloat. Hybrid powered and yes they have retained some of their oldest for historical reasons. 

Fact and not opinion should be the basis of any statement. 

[Travelcat2]

48 minutes ago, Guerncruising said:

Hurtigruten have some of the most modern ships afloat. Hybrid powered and yes they have retained some of their oldest for historical reasons. 

Fact and not opinion should be the basis of any statement. 

 

48 minutes ago, Guerncruising said:

Hurtigruten have some of the most modern ships afloat. Hybrid powered and yes they have retained some of their oldest for historical reasons. 

Fact and not opinion should be the basis of any statement. 

 

My opinion was based on photos.  As you know, CC is 90% opinion and 10% fact (just guessing at the percentage).

 

Good to hear that Hurtigruten is better than it looks.

[RJ2002]

4 hours ago, Travelcat2 said:

 ... medical, travel or evacuation insurance.  Most companies will not even sell it right now.

Comprehensive travel insurance policies are still widely available for unforeseen losses.  More info at https://www.insuremytrip.com/ or other travel insurance broker sites. 

[GrJ Berkshire]

1 hour ago, RJ2002 said:

Comprehensive travel insurance policies are still widely available for unforeseen losses.  More info at https://www.insuremytrip.com/ or other travel insurance broker sites. 

Not in the UK , insurance for business interruption is not paying out re: covid-19 and travel insurance esp cruises hard to get as UK Govt still recommends not to cruise, except on small river cruises.

[fizzy]

I would love to hear what ALL of an onboard crew have to say about the workability of the Regent protocols as outlined above.

[greykitty]

6 hours ago, giustot said:

I wonder if the people who came up with this guidance ever actually took a cruise.

 

As I have mentioned previously, if cruising resumes under such strict protocols, I doubt there will be enough passengers to make it worthwhile for ships to sail.

I totally agree that if effective, best practice as we know them at the time, protocols are in place, a lot of passengers may find them far too restrictive for a non-essential expenditure of time and money. 

 

That said, people showed up at Disney World even though that experience has surely changed in a lot of ways, and mostly not for the 'better' compared to a year ago.  Whether Disney should stay open now is a whole separate discussion, I think.

 

Even small but enjoyable things like being able to sit at a bar and chit chat in close proximity with fellow passengers and the bar tender, or being able to hop into the pool for a quick dip on a whim will, I think, look much different at first, based on how we're seeing bars, restaurants, and swim facilities dealing with COVID on land - just extrapolating, but probably not an unreasonable thought. 

 

But, people adapt - a lot of hotels were already making progress on the green initiatives where housekeeping in each room isn't done on a daily basis unless requested, to the extent it doesn't seem 'odd' anymore. Will cruise ships follow that example?  I suspect they will.

 

And I'm old enough to remember when people actually smoked in business office environments.  We, most of us, can change....I'm already used to double checking for keys, wallet, and mask when leaving the house now - wasn't that way last March!

 

I am looking forward to whatever the healthy sail panel comes back with at the end of August - and seeing what elements the various cruise lines incorporate into their submissions to the CDC for review.  

 

I do think modified living arrangements for crew and general medical facility enhancements may prove to be greatest challenge for most lines.