Hapag-Lloyd Cruises 10 point plan for re-commencement of cruises.

[steamboats]

Sorry, this has nothing to do with discrimination. It´s simply a slow restart of cruising. BTW someone did contact TUI Cruises asking about a cruise out of Crete. The person - like me - is living in Munich and we´re currently above 50 cases/100K citizens/7 days. And even with a negative test they said we won´t be allowed onboard.

 

steamboats

[Jacqueline]

Testing really doesn’t solve as many problems as one might think, based on what we have all seen of recent events, rather it gives a false sense of security.

 

[Catlover54]

Update: I  read that Germany reopened to foreign tourists June 21, 2021. I hoped to invite my now (finally!) vaxed German friend, recovering from cancer therapies, to a birthday cruise this fall, again on HL as we did together a couple years ago.  I was also looking at several late 2021-early 2022 cruises of interest online I wanted to book.

 

So I emailed HL and asked if HL will now reopen to cruisers who do not reside in Germany, Austria, or Switzerland, especially if those cruisers are not only Covid negative pre-boarding, but also have full vaccination proof.  I would even be happy to go get antibody and immunity testing, if that would get me on-board.

 

Answer:  I was told in an email that HL might reopen to "neighboring" country cruisers (presumably EU residents, unclear if that includes UK) in October (so Vistaman from Belgium can rejoice!), but not to other international cruisers, even if they are vaxed, and they have no idea when (if?) they will.

But they told me if I could prove I have a second residence in Germany, they "might" make an exception.

 

Denying vaxed and Covid-negative bookings to non-Germans at this point  has little to do with safety, especially with  the Covid rates in Germany having shifted to higher than in the U.S.  Most Germans are also still not vaxed for various reasons (primarily  bureaucracy), and  I doubt the HL crew is fully vaxed either or we would hear about it on the HL website, despite noble goals they may have.  More Americans and Brits are vaxed than Germans. 

My most charitable view is that  likely HL does not want to be put into an awkward position of favoring vaxed pax over non-vaxed, because then it would have to recognize that vaxing significantly  lowers a person's risk of being a disease vector (not 100%, but close to it) , so then people would wonder why HL crew is not already fully vaxed. My more cynical view is that Covid has now become a good excuse to get rid of the small number of international cruisers HL had (despite their name change into English), because there is a small minority of German cruisers that does not like having announcements in two languages on the "international" ships Europa 2 and Inspiration (at least per their online blog posts), and they know they can fill their ships just with Germans, Swiss, and Austrians.

 

So, as I am not getting a residence in Germany anytime soon, and will not fake one either, though I had four HL cruises in mind  to spend many thousands of dollars on between now and May 2022 (for which I am still holding my old Ocean Sun Festival reservation, just in case they open up to us lowly Americans by then), my next cruise will be with Crystal -- which favors vaxed pax, as does Iceland, my destination (visitors to that country must be vaxed). I would have preferred to do an Iceland  circumnavigation cruise with HL, for many reasons (especially the food and service), but HL leaves me no choice. DH and I are not getting any younger or healthier and with our retirement, we are ready to carpe as many cruise diems as we can before it's too late.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[steamboats]

@Catlover54 I don´t know where you got your numbers but USA has a 7 day number of 28.7, Germany has 4.9.

 

We picked up speed regarding vaccinations... by yesterday 55.4% have gotten the first shot and 37.7% are fully vaccinated. USA shows 54.22% first shot and 46,61% fully vaccinated (data July 1st).

 

So we´re not that far behind regarding the vaccinations ;-).

 

steamboats

(who acutally is fully vaccinated)

[tiggis]

I am inclined to agree with Catlover that HL may be looking to do away with bilingual cruises.  But I'm not sure that they can always easily fill the ships with German speakers - we were on an Asian cruise on Europa 2 a couple of years ago which was far from full, and I would guess that HL were happy to have the twenty or so English speakers (actually, mostly from Australia), some of who were in the high-level suites.  It would, though, be a different story for 8-day Med cruises.

John

[English Voyager]

To be fair to Hapag Lloyd I think it would not be an entirely free agent as to the countries from which it will accept reservations.

It must surely be guided by the statements emanating from the German Government.

 

As at the 1 July, in the UK, 72.2% had received a first vaccination, and 53.3% a second.

 

The NHS is planning to offer the over 50s a booster Covid-19 vaccination from September.

[vistaman]

I contested the regulations by HLC as from the restart as the only criterion around the pandemic is the medical science ( negative  tests and later on the -double - vaccination + test ) - not that you are living in a particular area or country .  That is like a platitude  style "nationality x are proverbial drunks "

HLC always did refer to "German authorities" but unfortunately is not willing to mention which German authority ...no reply on that by the former and the actual CEO. .

The fact that since 1st July  the "corona passport" is valid and also agreed on and accepted by the government of the Bundesrepublik Deutschland (so Germany ) is putting a new approach on the refuse.

Another German cruise company is not practising that rule. 

In the European Union  if a country eventually is violating an elementary right - in this case art 21 of the Treaty of the European Union - individual people can file a complaint at the European Commission ( what is done meanwhile) . Also some TA took actions . 

I think HLC did suppose nobody of its international EU clients was acquainted with the European Laws;  unfortunately HLC still  can refuse non European Union clients. 

It is true a company can refuse clients within the freedom of the contract however those refuse must be based on objective criterions and not going against principles of law ( in this case the EU ) example : people with previous bad behaviour and similar. 

It is very sad HLC was not able to do whatother far lower cuise companies did : the medical science as absolute criterion as it was ok for EU pax to travel to canaries and later on Greece.

I add the advice of the legal service  of the European Union  ( it is the literal translation as one must communicate in own language ) it is not a fairy tale by myself. 

adviceEC.pdf

[steamboats]

Sorry, Vistaman, as said before there is no violation of EU rights but freedom of treaty! It would be a violation if they say, no I don´t take Vistaman because he´s from Antwerp and we don´t like the people of Antwerp. It won´t be a violation if the say we don´t take people of Anwerp because Antwerp is currently a Delta variant hotspot.

 

AIDA and TUI cruise had phases when they only took German citizens. They now take Austria and Switzerland too. Not sure whether they are open now for all other EU countries.

 

And even with the new digital Covid passport it´s still the country saying whether you can enter and for what you can use your digital Covid passport. So currently noone from Portugal can enter Germany (unless they are German citizens and then they do have to go into quarantine). Same for UK.

 

And HL doesn´t have to tell you which German authorities they do follow. BTW it is pretty complicated as health authorities are local (city or county) and they do have to cope with a lot of authorties to get cleared to go.

 

steamboats

[Balian65]

I do think those who believe HLC is willing to get rid of their international guests and stop bilingual cruises are completely wrong. Keep in mind that HLC is part of Royal Caribbean Group (50% shareholder) who would consequently follow a strategy of becoming more international - if there would be no Covid regulation.

 

And that's where it starts to get difficult. Covid regulation in Germany is done mainly on the level of the 16 federal states. Only the access for foreigners coming to Germany is under control of the national authorities. That means rules differ widely and are constantly changing.

 

In this crazy world HLC (and the mother company TUI cruises) have managed to keep their business running since July 2020 without any major breaks. Both had two ships running either on cruises to nowhere or in special places like the Canary Islands most of the times. This would not have been possible without the strict limitation to German guests and a maximum of flexibility concerning the itenaries. So spontaneous changes of the port of departure happened a few days before the cruise starts like a month ago when passengers were informed three days in advance that their cruise will start in Kiel instead of Hamburg due to the closure of Hamburg's cruise port. Other cruises were cancelled 10 days in advance.

 

To avoid any trouble with international guests whose flights might be cancelled or which were denied to enter Germany (or the country where the port of departure was located) it was a wise decision to concentrate on German guests. Many of the international guests would have been deeply disappointed or completely overwhelmed by short-term cancellations or changes. Not to speak about all the discussions about refunds and compensation.

 

I am pretty sure by the time international travelling will get back to normal HLC will welcome its international guests on board. At this moment in time it would probably be a little too early....

 

[English Voyager]

Is Hapag-Lloyd Cruises now accepting reservations from residents outside the EU?

 

Currently in the UK more than 2 million people, including myself, have had a booster vaccination against Covid-19 although infection rates continue to increase--- more than 42,000 in the latest 24 hour period.

[vistaman]

58 minutes ago, English Voyager said:

Is Hapag-Lloyd Cruises now accepting reservations from residents outside the EU?

 

Currently in the UK more than 2 million people, including myself, have had a booster vaccination against Covid-19 although infection rates continue to increase--- more than 42,000 in the latest 24 hour period.

I had my 3rd vaccine end of September and I was able to book a cruise on Europa 2 Dubai Dubai end of the year. 

It seemed as from  1st October.

[English Voyager]

2 hours ago, vistaman said:

I had my 3rd vaccine end of September and I was able to book a cruise on Europa 2 Dubai Dubai end of the year. 

It seemed as from  1st October.

So restrictions have been eased for EU residents outside of the German speaking countries,

 

Do you know if the easing also applies to residents of countries outside of the EU?

Edited October 14, 2021 by English Voyager

[vistaman]

English Voyager ,

 

I am afraid non EU residents are still not able to book a HL cruise... 

And allow me to add both Belgium and Luxemburg are officially German speaking countries. 

The German community    in my country does have a small parliament and government and all our federal laws are published in German as well.  

[tiggis]

I have just had an an email from HL to say that all nationalities will be welcomed on board as from 1 January 2022.

[English Voyager]

1 hour ago, tiggis said:

I have just had an an email from HL to say that all nationalities will be welcomed on board as from 1 January 2022.

Thanks for the confirmation.

[Catlover54]

I just got an email in reply to one I sent a couple weeks ago about international pax, given I have a previously booked cruise with HL in May:

 

1.  They said as of October 1, 2021, Benelux country residents are welcome, thus vistaman can sail and is booked.

2.  They said after January 1, 2022, other nationalities will be welcome  if the countries are not designated as having high risk for Covid "variants", and pax are vaccinated ( HL finally got around to requiring vax for all pax and crew as of this month, BTW)

3.  Then they said there should be no problem with my May 2022 cruise 

4.  They did not answer if it would make a difference if I added a German friend to my May booking, and stayed with her two weeks before sailing, ( so my nostrils' exposure would be as Germanic as every German's). 

 

#3 seems to contradict #2, at least now ( who knows about May)  because almost all US Covid cases are " delta variant" 

So what happens if Covid delta trundles along at some rate, ( I doubt delta "variant" will be gone 1.1.22 as it is now mainstream) even if I get a fourth Moderna booster in the spring , and even if I come from an area of the US with very low Covid that is larger than all of Germany, and from where I can fly non-stop to semi-clean Germany? My cruise doesn't even sail from Germany.

Post #34 makes a good argument that foreign pax could  be more upset about cruise port changes and short notice changes, given they have to fly further, so HL would rather not mess with them. But that could be something one contracted out of ( e.g., HL would simply have no liability or flight and hotel compensation requirement other than cost of the cancelled cruise, just like when they cancelled my Nature cruise three weeks before sailing, way before Covid, where I had my own air reserved).  I understand such contractual exceptions would complicate their bureaucracy, and they are entitled to do whatever suits them. Based on the latest "Covid variant" statement, health risks to German pax are what they are citing as the concern, not flight inconvenience and calls for compensation.

 

I have not tried to get more info, much less to book anything new yet, and it is unclear if one has to wait until 1.1.22 to BOOK or to SAIL if one is a foreigner.
 

[steamboats]

18 hours ago, Catlover54 said:

#3 seems to contradict #2, at least now ( who knows about May)  because almost all US Covid cases are " delta variant"

 HL pretty likely refers to the German RKI list. Currently there´s no "virus variant area" listed (as the Delta variant has spread all over the world). US is still listed as "high risk area". But this only means that you need to fill in the health declaration and have to be vaccinated (which you have to be anyway to enter Germany or EU) to avoid a quarantine.

 

steamboats

[Catlover54]

Thank you for the RKI link, steamboats. In US all the jargon  in medical journals and media is still about the  "delta variant" ( even though it is not much of a variant anymore and is mainstream).  Your link makes clear that the definition of "variant" is different in Germany than here, ( i.e., there are now no "variants" of concern for Germany, at least not yet)  .  So with that context, there is no contradiction in the info I got in the email, and that is good news.  I know things can change, but this is a good start.
 

I am also happy with HL's new requirement for pax and crew to be fully vaxxed, and tested within 72 hours of boarding, wherever the boarding is ( mine will not be in Germany). I am aware it is not a 100% guarantee that everyone on board will be Covid free, but that is a risk I am comfortable with ( despite being officially "high risk" for doing poorly if I get Covid).

I am also happy that as of 11/8, vaxxed and tested Europeans can finally fly  to the U.S. for visits ( at least officially -- we will see how it works in practice).  Banning you this long was getting ridiculous, especially since tens of thousands of people coming by car or foot through our southern border have been let in without vax or testing requirements.

 

Our travel industry needs European tourists, and European residents  with friends and family in the U.S. need to be able to see their loved ones physically, not just on Facetime.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[steamboats]

@Catlover54 it was especially ridiculous as it did only apply to the Schengen countries. So go to Turkey for 2 weeks and you can fly to the US. Even Romania and Bulgaria didn´t count on that. And all those countries were and are still more hit than the Schengen community.

 

Glad the CDC now also accepts the mixed vaccines which were recommended over here for those with one dose of AstraZeneca (which later got a bad reputation and nobody wanted it anymore). It was also used in Canada.

 

steamboats

[vistaman]

yes that was very weird  as I presume health care is maybe the weakest in Romania and Bulgaria of the entire EU - those 2 countries are part of the EU but are non Schengen , same for Cyprus, Ireland and Croatia.

Non Eu but part of Schengen are Liechtenstein, Norway Iceland and Switserland. 

In Belgium AstraZeneca is not used anymore

So maybe we can take advantage of the rather cheap cruises to the Caribbean now , however flight fares are increasing fast. 

Singapore is still closed - on the other side. . 

 

[Catlover54]

Hoping to be able to sail in May for Ocean Sun ( if not sooner after Jan 1 on a new booking), I now see the English description of pre-boarding Covid safety requirements on the HL website , and unfortunately  I see new barriers:

 

"

In order to embark, you must have these things alongside the usual documents and identification: 

• Completed health questionnaire: there will be an extensive health questionnaire prior to departure which you must bring with you when you embark. 
• A machine-readable vaccination certificate (e.g. the EU Digital COVID Certificate) and the international WHO vaccination passport showing that you are fully vaccinated against Covid-19. 
• Negative Covid-19 test results obtained within predetermined time frames. Country-specific regulations that exempt people who are fully vaccinated or have recovered from Covid-19 from the obligation to take a test may apply. Guests will receive more detailed information about the testing strategy for their cruise along with their travel documents."

It is the second section that is a problem: my vax cert is not "machine-readable" ( it is just a little card with key identifying info, issued by the CDC, and has my three vax dates written in by hand and lot numbers, which worked fine for Iceland cruising on the Endeavor recently, the personnel just physically studied it). 

I also have no clue how to get an "international WHO vaccination passport".No one here has anything from WHO. Both are required per these instructions as it says "and".

And I can also imagine showing up and the German scanning  machine not being able to read an American QR code, even if I got the CA electronic system to finally register by vaxxes.

 

This is designed for Germans and maybe EU people, not Americans, most of whom ( dual nationals excluded) will have neither of these in the near future.  New Yorkers have a digital system for their vax records and in theory CA is also implementing one but it is a hot steaming bureaucratic mess, and people in most states have nothing electronic except their hospital medical records.

And we absolutely have no "WHO"  record.  
It is not a translation error either.

 

English Voyager, do UK pax routinely have a WHO passport along with electronically readable vax certa?

Vistaman, do you have a WHO passport?

Steamboats, do you know anything about this?

 

Edited October 23, 2021 by Catlover54
Typo

[steamboats]

@Catlover54 yes, I do have a WHO passport. It´s a yellow booklet where all my vaccinations are recorded. We do get this over here in Germany. Especially for the Covid-19 vaccination I do have a QR code which I scanned into my CovPass App and also my Covid-19 tracing app. So I can show this when I go to a restaurant. My Mom does not have a cell phone so she uses the original print out which can be folded like a passport.

 

In France (and also Switzerland) you can get the EU QR Code as a non citizen uploading your CDC card and passport to this website. I know I´ve read about another website where you can get the EU QR code too, but I can´t find it anymore.

 

Friends of mine were vaccinated in the US and got their QR code in a German pharmacy but they do live in Germany.

 

CDC cards are accepted as proof of vaccinations in Germany and all over Europe. Here in Germany nobody does scan the QR code they just have a look on it. In Italy they do scan at the airport, in museums, in restaurants...

 

As for the translation... yes, the translation is correct but the text is only for EU passengers and does not have any regulations for non EU passengers.

 

Actually for traveling I take my WHO passport, my QR code apps plus the print out. I was recently cruising with Windstars new Star Legend from Lisbon to Málaga. I was surprised that at check-in they were o.k. with my QR code app (not scanning it, just checking the dates and the vaccine) - although there were only a dozend Europeans onboard and all the rest were Americans.

 

steamboats

Edited October 23, 2021 by steamboats

[English Voyager]

@Catlover54 here in UK, with the devolved Administrations in England, Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland, there are variations in the issuing of Vaccination Certificates.

 

Here in England there is an NHS App which includes details of Covid-19 vaccination status, and which can be used to generate a QR code.

 

Until your message I was unaware of a WHO Vaccine Passport, and have never seen any mention of it in articles on requirements for overseas travel either before or during the current pandemic.

[vistaman]

I use to have a WHO booklet until my yellow fever vaccination expired 

i am afraid the covid vaccines were not put into the booklets in Belgium , the proof is the EU certificate

when leaving the vaccination center you only receive a ticket that you are vaccinated 

the official document  is in a health profile. with the QR code. 

[steamboats]

Here in Germany we got the stickers in our WHO booklet. It wasn´t until later they started with the QR code. I had to take my WHO booklet (plus ID card) to my pharmacy where they created the QR code documents for me.

 

steamboats