Excursions in England- driver guide vs driver + guide

[eggpaul]

Can anyone tell me if it is worth paying extra for a driver + guide in Dover?            I don't see the big difference between a driver/guide and a driver + guide.    In my experience with excursions, the drivers have always acted as great guides.   I'm just wondering if it will be worth to pay a bit more for a driver + guide in Dover/canterbury/london?  

[cruisemom42]

I don't know about England, but in some European countries, a driver cannot actually go in with you and 'guide' you at the site, they can only provide some information about it. Also, in some countries it is not legal for one person to fill both roles (e.g., you are a driver or you are a guide, but not both). I would do more research.

 

Read reviews and find out how much the driver/guide actually does. One very popular agency that provides driver services in Italy touts their wonderful drivers who, according to MOST reviewers provide a lot of input and also logistical guidance.....however, the agency are also careful to note that their drivers are basically there to be drivers. In other words, they may provide you with a certain level of information, or they may not.

 

When in doubt, for me, I'd rather spend $$$ on a guide than on a driver. Too many times I've gotten a lot of stories, hearsay and blather from drivers when I really wanted facts and history. For some, however, a few stories and a pleasant sing-along in the van are all they really want. 

 

 

[navybankerteacher]

27 minutes ago, eggpaul said:

Can anyone tell me if it is worth paying extra for a driver + guide in Dover?            I don't see the big difference between a driver/guide and a driver + guide.    In my experience with excursions, the drivers have always acted as great guides.   I'm just wondering if it will be worth to pay a bit more for a driver + guide in Dover/canterbury/london?  

I would think that someone offering to drive you around an area could be expected to know about that area.  But, it occurs to me that having an experienced guide (obviously more than someone who just knows the roads) with you to show you around Dover and  London and Canterbury would come to quite a lot more than “a bit more”.   

 

 

[evandbob]

Check out local guides through a google (or other internet engine) search.  

 

Also, check to see if your dates are far enough out for unencumbered travel- UK presently requires a 14 day quarantine or self isolate after arrival. 

Edited July 15, 2020 by evandbob

[eggpaul]

1 hour ago, navybankerteacher said:

I would think that someone offering to drive you around an area could be expected to know about that area.  But, it occurs to me that having an experienced guide (obviously more than someone who just knows the roads) with you to show you around Dover and  London and Canterbury would come to quite a lot more than “a bit more”.   

 

 

 

For a Driver/guide it is  Base Fare + 115 GBP ,  for a Driver + separate guide it is Base Fare + 280 GBP

[eggpaul]

1 hour ago, navybankerteacher said:

I would think that someone offering to drive you around an area could be expected to know about that area.  But, it occurs to me that having an experienced guide (obviously more than someone who just knows the roads) with you to show you around Dover and  London and Canterbury would come to quite a lot more than “a bit more”.   

 

1 hour ago, cruisemom42 said:

I don't know about England, but in some European countries, a driver cannot actually go in with you and 'guide' you at the site, they can only provide some information about it. Also, in some countries it is not legal for one person to fill both roles (e.g., you are a driver or you are a guide, but not both). I would do more research.

 

Read reviews and find out how much the driver/guide actually does. One very popular agency that provides driver services in Italy touts their wonderful drivers who, according to MOST reviewers provide a lot of input and also logistical guidance.....however, the agency are also careful to note that their drivers are basically there to be drivers. In other words, they may provide you with a certain level of information, or they may not.

 

When in doubt, for me, I'd rather spend $$$ on a guide than on a driver. Too many times I've gotten a lot of stories, hearsay and blather from drivers when I really wanted facts and history. For some, however, a few stories and a pleasant sing-along in the van are all they really want. 

 

Yes, the tour company says   for a driver/guide it would be base fare + 115 gbp, and for a driver and dedicated guide who would walk with us it would be + 280 gbp.                    This vacation is expensive , so not sure why I'm fretting about 165 gbp, haha,  but I am .

 

 

[navybankerteacher]

8 minutes ago, eggpaul said:

 

165 GBP pounds is that “bit” more.  But frankly, I would wonder if you could get one person for that price who would be sufficiently up on the ins and outs of Dover, Canterbury and (yes, even) London to do more for you than you could do with your own research - identify what you want to see : perhaps a castle, or a bit of coastal character in Dover;  that spot where Henry Plantagenet’s knights murdered Thomas a Becket and the Black Prince’s sarcophagus at Canterbury; and then London —- are you going to give it a whole day - of an hour or so to glom the highlights?

[eggpaul]

7 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

165 GBP pounds is that “bit” more.  But frankly, I would wonder if you could get one person for that price who would be sufficiently up on the ins and outs of Dover, Canterbury and (yes, even) London to do more for you than you could do with your own research - identify what you want to see : perhaps a castle, or a bit of coastal character in Dover;  that spot where Henry Plantagenet’s knights murdered Thomas a Becket and the Black Prince’s sarcophagus at Canterbury; and then London —- are you going to give it a whole day - of an hour or so to glom the highlights?

 

They will pick us up from the cruise line at 8:30 am, head over to the cliffs, and then Dover Castle.  The said the guide can't enter the castle with us (we will be there 2 hours).    After that is Canterbury , where the guide will walk with us and then to the church.    In London they will take us to St. Paul's cathedral (guide can't enter with us), the Abbey, big ben, and Buckhingham.  I think we will be dropped off at the hotel around 5-6 pm.                    The private tour is pricey.    805 gbp for driver only,  +115 for driver who can act as a guide, or +280 for driver AND dedicated guide. 

[navybankerteacher]

1 minute ago, eggpaul said:

 

They will pick us up from the cruise line at 8:30 am, head over to the cliffs, and then Dover Castle.  The said the guide can't enter the castle with us (we will be there 2 hours).    After that is Canterbury , where the guide will walk with us and then to the church.    In London they will take us to St. Paul's cathedral (guide can't enter with us), the Abbey, big ben, and Buckhingham.  I think we will be dropped off at the hotel around 5-6 pm.                    The private tour is pricey.    805 gbp for driver only,  +115 for driver who can act as a guide, or +280 for driver AND dedicated guide. 

Sounds like you know what you want to see — are you sure you need the guide? I would suggest you read up in advance on Dover Castle, Canterbury Cathedral and Westminster Abbey -  I suppose Buckingham Palace would just be  a drive-by.   But, when you stop near Westminster Abbey you should allow at least an hour for Churchill’s War Room - the underground bunker - essentially unchanged since 1945 - from which Churchill managed Britain’s WW2 effort

[eggpaul]

Maybe the driver/guide would be enough I think.      Although someone walking with us would be great too.   I'll ask them about the War room,  it's close to the Abbey?  

[CruiserBruce]

14 minutes ago, eggpaul said:

Maybe the driver/guide would be enough I think.      Although someone walking with us would be great too.   I'll ask them about the War room,  it's close to the Abbey?  

Yes, a block or three away.

[KreinKrunker]

Don't know about Dover, but we had driver+guide in Liverpool last Sept.  The driver would drop us, passengers and guide, then either, circle the block or park the van for a predetermined amount of time.  Most places we went didn't have parking nearby, so if the you are dropped off, you are on your own.  If the driver parked then walked with you to the sight you would rack up the miles and time on your feet.

[phabric]

I used International Friends (www.internationalfriends.co.uk ) from our Dover dock.    We stopped at Canterbury and Leeds and they dropped us off at our London hotel.

[John Bull]

As other posts have mentioned, some places of interest (but only a few) will not permit private guides so you use their guides, or audio-guides, or rely on signage - Windsor Castle is an example.

 

A "driver/guide" will cost more than a "driver", but some "drivers" are very knowledgeable and amenable.

 

Just the one person - driver or driver-guide - is fine for most places, certainly for touring or for visiting towns or specific places. But in London and some other cities that falls apart due to parking limitations - here you can be dropped off and collected at a pre-arranged time, but to be accompanied on inside visits you need a driver plus a guide. 

 

For Dover Castle just a driver/guide is fine. Just a car & driver for the duration would be a waste of money, you can fix a taxi both ways for £25 or less.

You can easily DIY Dover Castle from the cruise terminal by taxi (about £12 e/w) or from the town centre by bus. There are no audio-guides at the castle but you receive an informative map, there's plenty of signage, various video displays, and a guide book at the castle only costs about £5. The castle is worth a bare minimum of a couple of hours, but there's enough of interest for a full day if you have the stamina.

Dover itself has little else to commend it, but if you take a taxi to the castle from the cruise terminal you can ask the driver to make a diversion or two - for instance to the White Cliffs car park, then a five-minute each-way walk to a good viewpoint for the White Cliffs. (but by far the best view of the White Cliffs is from the sea - so be on deck for the sail-away). Then the driver can drop you at the castle & afterwards you can bus or walk down to the town (15 to 20 minutes walk downhill) or even walk all the way back to your ship (total about 40 mins). If you want a taxi back from the castle, best to arrange for the outward driver (or colleague) to collect you at an agreed time & spot, or have a phone number for the driver or Uber

 

Canterbury is about 30 minutes from Dover cruise terminal.

A driver/guide is fine - most places of interest are in walking distance  of each-other, so the driver can park-up for the duration.

But again, just a car & driver would be poor value - there's a half-hourly train service, journey time under 30 minutes, fare about £10 round-trip. Add £10 e/w for a taxi from cruise terminal to Dover Priory station, but it's only a ten-minute walk from Canterbury East station to the city centre / cathedral. And there are guided group walking tours of  Canterbury, plus the cathedral has audio guides.

 

London is a whole different ball-game.

As above a driver/guide is of little value, other than for a over-view.

Your main choices are:

- Car + driver + guide. Obviously the most expensive option.

- Guide plus local transport. You and the guide travel around the sights by tube or bus or taxi, far better value than also tying up a car and driver for the day. Downsides are nowhere to stash anything (coats, purchases, etc) that you're carrying, more risk with the weather, and a little more walking. Upsides are the better value, being "in" London rather than "seeing" London, and especially all the comparatively minor sights that you walk past - they come thick-and-fast in places like Parliament Square up Whitehall to Trafalgar Square.

DIY by ho-ho or local transport and shanks's. Obviously the cheapest options. The ho-ho is good for an over-view, you get an outside view of pretty-well everywhere of interest (important, because you ain't gonna see inside all of those places unless you have a couple of months to spare). It takes much longer than by car, but often that's better than being rushed past, and a far far better view from the open top deck.

Ho-hos have audio systems, but a live guide on some routes eg Original's yellow route.

Which brings me to cruisemom's quote ......

"Too many times I've gotten a lot of stories, hearsay and blather from drivers when I really wanted facts and history. For some, however, a few stories and a pleasant sing-along in the van are all they really want "

Sadly, as cruisemom' knows, I fit into the latter category . Kings and queens and their dates go in one ear & out the other, and I enjoy listening to a ho-ho guide's nonsense stories and "off-the-cuff" jokes that he's used for the umpteenth time today.

If you take the same view as cruisemom, use a ho-ho route that has a recorded commentary. If you take the same view as me, use a ho-ho route with a live guide but don't expect to learn a lot.  

The ho-ho isn't great for transport from one sight to another, it takes far too long. For that you need to use London's fast & extensive tube system, occasionally a local bus. Buying an Oyster Card  is much much easier than paying separately for each journey.

 

Best guides in London (and elsewhere) tend to be Blue Badge guides. My experience of them (I used to drive tour buses) is that they tend to be a little too dry for folk like me, but they're very knowledgeable.

If you plan a guided day some distance from your lodging (eg Canterbury or especially  London from a Dover hotel) make separate arrangements for your transport (car / taxi / bus / train), and book a guide based in the destination to meet you on arrival. You will avoid the cost of the guide's travelling time, you'll have a much bigger choice of guides, and the local guide will be more knowledgeable than one from your start point.

 

https://ojp.nationalrail.co.uk/service/planjourney/search

https://www.english-heritage.org.uk/visit/places/dover-castle/

https://www.theoriginaltour.com/en/map-times

https://www.bigbustours.com/en/london/london-bus-tours/

and

https://www.londontoolkit.com/

The London Toolkit website has a wealth of logistics information and tips, including pages on Dover and Canterbury.

The only caution I have is that you shouldn't assume that the private transfer operators etc that they recommend are best value, cos they're not (well, someone has to pay for their superb website ).

But the International Friends' coach tour/transfer mentioned by phabric is excellent - and usually a pound or two cheaper if booked thro London Toolkit rather than direct. It's only offered on cruise ship days, but if you're planning to stay in the Dover area for a day or two you can book it if another ship is arriving on the day you travel to London - you'll just have to make your way to the cruise terminal to catch it.

https://www.londontoolkit.com/travel/dover_to_london_bus.html

 

(edited to add - phabric mentioned his tour-transfer visiting "Leeds". Phabric meant "Leeds Castle" - near Dover and hundreds of miles from the city of Leeds. Plenty of stories about folk following their GPS hndreds of miles i the wrong direction )

 

JB 

 

Edited July 16, 2020 by John Bull

[geoherb]

On 7/15/2020 at 3:04 PM, eggpaul said:

 

They will pick us up from the cruise line at 8:30 am, head over to the cliffs, and then Dover Castle.  The said the guide can't enter the castle with us (we will be there 2 hours).    After that is Canterbury , where the guide will walk with us and then to the church.    In London they will take us to St. Paul's cathedral (guide can't enter with us), the Abbey, big ben, and Buckhingham.  I think we will be dropped off at the hotel around 5-6 pm.                    The private tour is pricey.    805 gbp for driver only,  +115 for driver who can act as a guide, or +280 for driver AND dedicated guide. 

 

That's a lot to try to cram into one day. I would suggest leaving off the London portion that day and extend your stay in London a few days to see what you want on your own. I wonder how much it would save if you took the train on your own from Canterbury instead of having the driver.

 

When we toured the Churchill War Rooms, we were there two and a half hours. We could have stayed longer except for wanting to catch a concert at St Martin-in-the-Fields. We attended an evensong service at Westminster Abbey when we stayed in London before our British Isles cruise.  And if you're there when Buckingham Palace is open for tours, you should book tickets for that as well. We did the additional garden tour, which was fabulous. 

Edited August 4, 2020 by geoherb

[John Bull]

23 hours ago, geoherb said:

That's a lot to try to cram into one day. I would suggest leaving off the London portion that day

 

On 7/15/2020 at 8:12 PM, navybankerteacher said:

  But, when you stop near Westminster Abbey you should allow at least an hour for Churchill’s War Room - the underground bunker - essentially unchanged since 1945 - from which Churchill managed Britain’s WW2 effort

 

I must have missed the fact that this was all planned for a single day. 

And the otherwise-worthwhile suggestion of adding Churchill's War Rooms (yes, just around the corner from Big Ben and Westminster Abbey) compounds that. 

 

Yes, Dover castle and Canterbury are more than enough for a single day !!

 

If your time is short you might want to abandon ideas of Dover castle and Canterbury and spend that time in London.

In which case also save the expense of guide and car by simply taking a direct train from Dover to a choice of stations in London, drop your bags at the hotel & get out in the afternoon to see the sights.

 

If Dover castle & Canterbury are high on your to-do list and you want to be in London that evening, then a driver or guide as far as Canterbury can make sense because of your luggage - both the hauling and the storage. Then at the end of your visit to Canterbury ( I guess around 5pm) get the driver to drop you at the station (Canterbury East or Canterbury West, depending on train time & preferred London station) for a direct train. Journey time 90 minutes to 2 hours, fare £25.80 per person. If required, add taxi fare from the London station to your hotel. The cost will be massively lower than extending the driver / guide's time taking you to London when it'll be too late in the day for any worthwhile guiding in London, and at that time of day by train is generally much faster than by road. Trains are very very frequent at that time of day, and relatively un-crowded - they're much busier in the opposite direction,  taking commuters home from the big bad city.

 

BTW, Big Ben, Westminster Abbey and Churchill's War Rooms (plus Whitehall, 10 Downing Street, Horseguards Parade, Trafalgar Square, National Gallery, and a host of other sights) are in a compact & easily walkable area.

Easy enough to visit independently, or if you wanted a guide there's no need for a car or driver. Plus a London-based guide (especially a blue-badge guide) would be so very much more knowledgeable than a guide based away from London (such as a Dover or Canterbury-based guide)

 

Just my opinion, as always.

 

JB 

Edited August 5, 2020 by John Bull

[eggpaul]

On 7/16/2020 at 6:08 AM, phabric said:

I used International Friends (www.internationalfriends.co.uk ) from our Dover dock.    We stopped at Canterbury and Leeds and they dropped us off at our London hotel.

 

That's the company I will be using also.      What time were you picked up from the dock, and what time did you make it to your hotel?  

[phabric]

International Friends is cheaper if booked through www.londontoolkit.com.

 

We met dockside 8am to leave at 8:30am.  It has been a few years, I think for the hotel around 6.  Dockside we were in a big Coach with a guide.  He talked on the way to Canterbury and Leeds Castle, then we were on our own.  At Leeds Castle, people going to London hotels were switched to a van and driven direct to our different hotels.
 

I have taken International Friends from Dover and Southampton and again in 2021.  A great way to see another part of Britain and be dropped off at the door of your London hotel/ LHR/LHR hotel.

 

if possible, go a day early of your cruise, stay in Dover and visit Dover Castle.  

Edited August 11, 2020 by phabric