Omg. Fred have bought the 2 flagships of Holland America! We finally get decent sized ships in the UK!

[tring]

1 hour ago, ovccruiser said:

The cabin grade is not irrelevant, they have booked the lowest grade cabin and are probably offered the equivalent on the new ship, which may not be mid ships. As I said, with more cabins there are probably more grades and the lowest grade on the new ship may not be mid ships. It will be down to them to argue the point with Fred and I do hope they are successful, but I do understand Freds point. If, for example, you look at Queen Mary2 deck plans, a much bigger ship, ignoring deck 4 as there are no mid ship cabins, deck 5 shows 4 different grades and I am sure with more cabins Fred may do the same.

 

I do agree that given the very large number of cabins at the front and back of the new ships that Fred will likely charge less for them when they go on sale, and so he should, otherwise he will likely have a lot of trouble selling them.  However, my point is regards people who have already booked cruises on the existing ships.  The main reason for booking soon after launch when prices are high, is to choose the location of your cabin and (like us) I suspect many would never book cabin at the front or back, otherwise why not wait until saver fares come out and book at a much lower cost.  You book a cruise according to the details of the cruise you have booked, including cabin location and Itinerary, indeed many itineraries on Fred's smaller ships are advantageous because of the ports and the abilities of his smaller ships to dock centrally.  Some of those ports may be possible on the bigger ships but not all.

 

It now looks like, Fred has decided to re book onto the cheapest, and worst placed cabins, indeed even allocating ones at the very front and very back, which is strange when you consider that cabins in those locations, on any cruise line, tend to be booked from the point of the grade nearest to midship first, with the more distal ones still being available much nearer the cruise date and usually being sold as savers at a far cheaper price.

 

Basically we do appear to agree that people have a say about a cabin location if they have booked on a Freedom Fare and you say you hope the person is successful with their request.  Hence you agree it is a negotiation, and Fred has chosen to start at a very low level in many cases, so there will be a great deal of negotiation going on which is time wasting for all and will not help keep his passengers happy, which is an important point. Yes Fred does not have to offer what people request if they ask for something silly, (like a considerably better cabin) and it would clearly be better for him to refund the money paid so far in that situation.  Likewise there is no obligation for passengers to accept a booking which involves any change other than one which is insignificant and they are at complete liberty to ask for a refund and even compensation instead, if one is proposed.  Even the change to a ship which is double the size, is hardly insignificant, before taking any other factors into account, like the cabin location and itinerary.  Hence Fred is at jeopardy of loosing a lot of bookings if he does not act sensibly by either coming to an agreement with passengers or agreeing a refund etc.,  However I strongly believe he will not be inflexible on this, as (apart from annoying customers) he will be well aware of his legal position and also the legal consequences that could befall him if he tries to trade in that manner.

Edited September 2, 2020 by tring

[tring]

9 hours ago, showingdiva said:

 

We don't have any decent video on the Firth of Forth, however anyone who wants to watch her (hopefully) negotiating the three bridges, there's a forth bridge website then click on to the panomax camera which pans from the Hound Point oil terminal to Rosyth.

 As Borealis (Rotterdam) appears to be due to dock at 9am tomorrow, she will be going under the bridges shortly before low tide:-    https://tides.willyweather.co.uk/dg/edinburgh/river-forth----forth-road-bridge.html

Edited September 2, 2020 by tring

[Britboys]

55 minutes ago, tring said:

 As Borealis (Rotterdam) appears to be due to dock at 9am tomorrow, she will be going under the bridges shortly before low tide:-    https://tides.willyweather.co.uk/dg/edinburgh/river-forth----forth-road-bridge.html

Presumably to allow as much headroom as possible to sneak in under the bridges 🤪

[showingdiva]

2 hours ago, Britboys said:

Presumably to allow as much headroom as possible to sneak in under the bridges 🤪

 

She's arriving in the Firth of Forth on the 3rd.   Not going under the bridges (with luck) until the 4th a.m.

[tring]

13 minutes ago, showingdiva said:

 

She's arriving in the Firth of Forth on the 3rd.   Not going under the bridges (with luck) until the 4th a.m.

Looks like low tide at 10.58am on the 4th, so I will put my money on then, or thereabouts, does it look that way to you?

[showingdiva]

23 minutes ago, tring said:

Looks like low tide at 10.58am on the 4th, so I will put my money on then, or thereabouts, does it look that way to you?

  

Yes.   Tugs booked for 10.30am

[JMyrtle]

As long as there is a Morning Light and  Palms/ Secret Garden Cafes well be happy, we have no use for dining rooms and cocktail or gin bars

Going back to the other point again this is a change of policy that we are caught up in, a good comparison would be arranging to buy a road worthy Ford Fiesta, going to collect it and being presented with a Rolls Royce with no wheels, 

they may be the same value but the switch is unacceptable. 

[Britboys]

39 minutes ago, JMyrtle said:

As long as there is a Morning Light and  Palms/ Secret Garden Cafes well be happy, we have no use for dining rooms and cocktail or gin bars

Going back to the other point again this is a change of policy that we are caught up in, a good comparison would be arranging to buy a road worthy Ford Fiesta, going to collect it and being presented with a Rolls Royce with no wheels, 

they may be the same value but the switch is unacceptable. 

Whilst I totally understand your reservations and concerns over your cabin, in general I think this is a really good move for Fred and most of their passengers. Whilst I love older ships - especially those that have a resemblance to Ocean Liners, Boudicca and Black Watch are now racing toward 50 years old. Environmental regulations are tightening all the time, which could possibly make it difficult for them to sail in areas such as the fjords. I appreciate that they are twice the size of their predecessors but they are small by today's standards. Cabins will be far superior and the interiors are really nice. In an email update 6 days ago, Fred said the new ships would have the "Morning Light Pub, The Grill, the Oriental Room, Bookmark Café and others". Both the new ships currently have extensive buffet restaurant areas, which I would imagine will become the Palms Café.

There are very, very few ships the size of Boudicca and Black Watch now sailing for mid-market cruise lines - they are almost all in the luxury market, with prices to match. Fred seems to have done a very good financial deal with Carnival Corp to acquire these two ships and this will hopefully put them in a good position for the next few years.

[cruzingnut]

6 hours ago, showingdiva said:

 

She's arriving in the Firth of Forth on the 3rd.   Not going under the bridges (with luck) until the 4th a.m.

 

I hunted down this webcam with a panoramic view.  There are other views on the web site but I didn't look closely to see if any of those would be helpful for watching the ship come in.  Unfortunately,  this will happen too early in the morning for those of us on the other side of the "Pond".  Maybe someone will save some video?

 

https://transport-scotland.panomax.com/forth

[showingdiva]

6 hours ago, cruzingnut said:

 

I hunted down this webcam with a panoramic view.  There are other views on the web site but I didn't look closely to see if any of those would be helpful for watching the ship come in.  Unfortunately,  this will happen too early in the morning for those of us on the other side of the "Pond".  Maybe someone will save some video?

 

https://transport-scotland.panomax.com/forth

 

Yes, that was the one I alluded to in an earlier post - just wasn't sure if I was allowed to copy it on to here.   Should there be some video, I will forward it.

[Colin_Cameron]

7 hours ago, cruzingnut said:

 Maybe someone will save some video?

https://transport-scotland.panomax.com/forth

You can use the 'time' at the bottom of the screen to step back (or forwards) 10 minutes at a time, or the 'archive' to jump further. I found our Balmoral sailaway last year.

 

Unfortunately it's only a still picture every ten minutes, and a ship can sail a long way in that time.

[Britboys]

Rotterdam is now in Scotland 😀. She's anchored just off Kirkaldy. From the Port of Rotterdam website, it seems Amsterdam is due to leave at 1920 this evening.

[gstewart]

Yeah here she is (not my tweet):

 

 

 

[ovccruiser]

Had a thought, I and my wife were on the Boudicca which docked at Dover on 19th March, the last cruise done with this ship. It was the last leg of a World Cruise through the Med from Limassol. Seems strange to think I have been aboard a last cruise, I have done a couple of Maiden cruises, Cunard QV and QE, but this is a first last cruise, sad really.

[Britboys]

Both ships are on the move. Amsterdam currently by the Hook of Holland bound for Scheveningen just as Rotterdam did. Nieuw Statendam and Zaandam are there so perhaps they will transferring crew or maybe some of the 'family silverware or heritage'.

Rotterdam now making her way towards the Forth Bridges.

[gstewart]

Rotterdam is safely under the bridges thankfully. Looks like they have been shuffling the rest of the fleet around in the docks at Rosyth to make room. 

[Britboys]

Rotterdam passing under the Forth Railway Bridge and then the Queensferry Crossing. As the webcam only takes a still shot every 10 minutes, this was the best I could get.

Edited September 4, 2020 by Britboys

[tring]

15 minutes ago, Britboys said:

Rotterdam passing under the Forth Railway Bridge and then the Queensferry Crossing. As the webcam only takes a still shot every 10 minutes, this was the best I could get.

 

Yes, sad we missed the view of her directly under the bridges, but good to see what we did.  The tides are not so low for a while now with the 16th being the first one down to this level, but some very low tides for a number days after that, which I am thinking Bolette will arrive that week. 

[Britboys]

5 minutes ago, tring said:

 

Yes, sad we missed the view of her directly under the bridges, but good to see what we did.  The tides are not so low for a while now with the 16th being the first one down to this level, but some very low tides for a number days after that, which I am thinking Bolette will arrive that week. 

I hope Amsterdam passes through during daylight hours - would be nice to see the one I should be on next June 🤞🏻.

[showingdiva]

Having watched her, and seen the official video footage of her going under all three bridges from the tug accompanying her (sorry, I'm unable to share these) ... it was close.   She definitely needed that extra low tide this morning.    Superb work in blustery weather by the captain, pilot and tug crew.    And they have it all to do again with Amsterdam .. and then in reverse when they both resume cruising.

 

 

Edited September 4, 2020 by showingdiva

[tring]

19 minutes ago, showingdiva said:

Having watched her, and seen the official video footage of her going under all three bridges from the tug accompanying her (sorry, I'm unable to share these) ... it was close.   She definitely needed that extra low tide this morning.    Superb work in blustery weather by the captain, pilot and tug crew.    And they have it all to do again with Amsterdam .. and then in reverse when they both resume cruising.

 

 

 

Thanks for this and other information which you have shared with us.  I am surprised Fred has not been mentioning the arrival was due.  The tides for a few days after the 16th are even lower than today, so likely when Bolette will appear.

 

 

[JMyrtle]

I wonder who the captain of Bolette will be, I hope its the nice Finnish captain we had on Boudicca. 

I cannot remember his name off hand but he was the happy not the miserable one! and always ate his dinner in the Secret Garden about 7.00pm so we " exchanged pleasantries" with him  most evenings. 

[Britboys]

2 hours ago, tring said:

 

Thanks for this and other information which you have shared with us.  I am surprised Fred has not been mentioning the arrival was due.  The tides for a few days after the 16th are even lower than today, so likely when Bolette will appear.

 

 

Fred has posted on fb that Amsterdam/Bolette is due on the 16th as per your suggestion!

[tring]

10 minutes ago, Britboys said:

Fred has posted on fb that Amsterdam/Bolette is due on the 16th as per your suggestion!

 

Nice to have given him some advice 🙂 

 

Now I wonder if anyone can give him advice re other matters that have been causing some disquiet in the last week........

[tring]

52 minutes ago, JMyrtle said:

I wonder who the captain of Bolette will be, I hope its the nice Finnish captain we had on Boudicca. 

I cannot remember his name off hand but he was the happy not the miserable one! and always ate his dinner in the Secret Garden about 7.00pm so we " exchanged pleasantries" with him  most evenings. 

 

Mikael Degerlund is the name which slips your mind.  We first encountered him on a cruise from Liverpool to Montreal and back a few years ago and a few Boudicca cruises since then, including the Sri Lanka to India jaunt this February.  My husband could  not understand a word he had used in the midday report on the Canadian cruise, then realised that what he was pronouncing as "before" was actually Beaufort, so mentioned it when we saw him around the ship and helped him learn to pronounce it (must have been difficult as it is basically French of course - so not an English pronunciation).  He really appreciated that and has remembered my husband for that since then and as you say he is very personable and happy to exchange pleasantries around the ship.  Not in any way stuck up.

 

He still has me in stitches every welcome party and farewell party, when teases the staff, even though I have a fairly good idea what is coming by now.  If you have not seen that you really should and you do not have to go into the main restaurant afterwards if you do not wish.  I believe it can be difficult getting staff to be presented at those, as some of the crew are wary of having their leg pulled in public, though the officers are fair game and usually perform brilliantly, as do the younger crew.  Did you see him on one of the recent videos Fred has produced for FB and his website?

 

 

 

 

Edited September 4, 2020 by tring