Omg. Fred have bought the 2 flagships of Holland America! We finally get decent sized ships in the UK!

[hamishg]

16 hours ago, tring said:

 

Glad to hear you got back, though great shame your travels were curtailed.  You make some good points.  When I said up market, I meant by a smaller degree.  I do not know if you have experienced P&O, but Fred's ships were going down a fair bit by comparison until about 5 years ago and then he started spending a lot on doing them up.  P&O in comparison do not seem to maintain their older ships to a good level at all from what we have seen, so they are looking very old.  Food quality has been awful on P&O when we have travelled more recently, sometimes tasting of nothing but salt.  Fred seems to have put himself a step up of P&O now IMO and having to get to Southampton for most cruises is a pain for many people.  If he can just maintain those standards and still offer much better itineraries it could give him the edge on bookings, but yes they will need more passengers and will not be easily secured in the current climate.  There is a market for that sort of cruise that is cheaper than lines you mention, but perhaps command a realistic price, which sadly will be needed compared to the bigger ships.  More  OBS opportunities will be very welcomed by him as well - but if he can persuade older Brits to spend much is a little uncertain.  I am wondering if he will try to market more overseas, hopefully improving on the problems you mentioned you had as non Brits as well.  That could mean doing more around the world and he does seem to get higher prices for the more unusual cruises like that.

 

We will have to see, but certainly appears that he has the support of the main board now.  I had been feeling very nervous about that. 

 

Barbara

Hi Barbara – Yes I see what you mean now by up-marketing Fred’s ships, and that could make a lot of sense – however there is a bit of a problem that a lot of people object to paying more for an outside cabin than P & O charges for a balcony (speaking generally here). Ok Fred does some things better – I agree P&O’s food tends to be a bit dodgy – Fred’s is better but he still cuts a corner or two. I still think that Celebrity and Princess food-wise are overall a bit better. P&O’s public areas are always too tight, noisy and I detest having to struggle for a seat in their open dining areas , however my experience with their cabins is good.

Someone quoted that they thought Fred paid about 30mil for the 2 new ships – if that’s the case, it was a fairly good deal, however, they’ll have to spend a lot more than that refitting them up to a top standard where they can command a higher price than Balmoral and Braemar.

This still leaves the question as to what happens to CMV – I wonder if the talk of a Carnival connection is about giving them a “sail now pay later” deal on the ships that they lease from them, rather than a full take over?  This would still give Carnival potentially a better return than trying to sell them – they’re both ex P&O Australia which means their condition won’t be too flash.

I know this will never happen (Annette from Fred would likely have apoplexy) but it could be a good business decision for Fred to acquire CMV? They can easily afford it, and then they could really have a two tier price market, rationalise their itineraries, and wipe out one of their principal competitors. There is still Marella – they have enough backing to comfortably ride this period out ….I wonder if the other 2 ships that HAL has sold will end up in their fleet?

I think in the short term - cruising will be expensive – when it starts there will be a big pent-up demand which will keep prices high, plus there will be only limited locations opening up where cruise ports will be available – my guess on a likely area will be Greece, Cyprus, Montenegro and areas around there.

But hey what do I know – you can only judge from the snippets of information that comes out – but its interesting to speculate…J

Hamish

 

[tring]

7 hours ago, hamishg said:

Hi Barbara – Yes I see what you mean now by up-marketing Fred’s ships, and that could make a lot of sense – however there is a bit of a problem that a lot of people object to paying more for an outside cabin than P & O charges for a balcony (speaking generally here). Ok Fred does some things better – I agree P&O’s food tends to be a bit dodgy – Fred’s is better but he still cuts a corner or two. I still think that Celebrity and Princess food-wise are overall a bit better. P&O’s public areas are always too tight, noisy and I detest having to struggle for a seat in their open dining areas , however my experience with their cabins is good.

Someone quoted that they thought Fred paid about 30mil for the 2 new ships – if that’s the case, it was a fairly good deal, however, they’ll have to spend a lot more than that refitting them up to a top standard where they can command a higher price than Balmoral and Braemar.

This still leaves the question as to what happens to CMV – I wonder if the talk of a Carnival connection is about giving them a “sail now pay later” deal on the ships that they lease from them, rather than a full take over?  This would still give Carnival potentially a better return than trying to sell them – they’re both ex P&O Australia which means their condition won’t be too flash.

I know this will never happen (Annette from Fred would likely have apoplexy) but it could be a good business decision for Fred to acquire CMV? They can easily afford it, and then they could really have a two tier price market, rationalise their itineraries, and wipe out one of their principal competitors. There is still Marella – they have enough backing to comfortably ride this period out ….I wonder if the other 2 ships that HAL has sold will end up in their fleet?

I think in the short term - cruising will be expensive – when it starts there will be a big pent-up demand which will keep prices high, plus there will be only limited locations opening up where cruise ports will be available – my guess on a likely area will be Greece, Cyprus, Montenegro and areas around there.

But hey what do I know – you can only judge from the snippets of information that comes out – but its interesting to speculate…J

Hamish

 

 

Hello again,

 

The deal Fred got is in the Bonheur link from the beginning of this thread.  We do not understand business/financial language, but with the help of Google it looks like it is payment free for the first three years, then two payments of 7.43 million with a fixed interest cost of 2.5% - and that is from the horses mouth, but it is possible we have misunderstood it.  Carnival are paying round about 10 to 11% on the loans they have got over this period, as a comparison.

 

There is a poster on the P&O threads who is obviously very well up on the Carnival business dealings and also how their cruise lines work.  He, (if it is a he), posted details of the latest meeting a week last Friday and has added a lot more since about the ship disposals.  The other two HAL ships were sold together, but no indication bought them.  The comments are mostly on the "Carnival to Dump Six Ships" thread, but he posts on other threads as well.  The news hotted up a lot since the last meeting a week last Friday as things have been happening very quickly.

 

Aida already have short cruises with no ports on sale from 3 German ports in August and Costa starting in a similar fashion I think.  Seems the very start will be cruises form home ports and most ships in or heading for the home bases at present.  German TUI doing similar and Hurtigruten  operating, but of course they are essential transport in Norway, rather than just leisure.  After that will presumably be fluid, but as you say Greece has low numbers at present (? of interest to Costa) and apparently the Caribbean Islands are keen to get some money in.  Virus numbers seem to be creeping up in most countries apart from the US, where the word creeping does not appear that valid in some areas, though as it is such a massive country I am sure there is a lot of other areas hardly affected (also given UK position I can hardly throw stones).  I assume you have seen the EU interim guidance document which has been well reported, it seems the individual countries are discussing their own requirements based on that with the UK talks continuing:-   https://www.healthygateways.eu/Portals/0/plcdocs/EU_HEALTHY_GATEWAYS_COVID-19_RESTARTING_CRUISES.pdf?ver=2020-07-01-115942-557

 

I do not know about TUI's funding, (you may have more knowledge), but as far as refunds go they seem to be down to CMV proportions, with one or two refunds just starting to appear over the last week or so.  It seems that, as a German company, they did get funding from the German Government early on in the crisis.  I joined a social media TUI group to see what I could glean regards our booked Spanish holiday with them, but not easy getting information between all the bad news/abuse the company are getting.  Thank heavens for CC, I always think we are a pretty civilized lot on here by comparison 🙂

 

I was also wondering about the ex Carnival ships running/planned for CMV, and the financial deal involved, as Carnival were reported as being creditors of CMV when the first sign of the problems arose a few weeks back.  So yes, any future involvement may be partly to mitigate other loses I presume, but again I could be talking gibberish as I have no business knowledge. 

 

Whatever happens with Fred I certainly hope he continues, but we are assuming all smaller ships will be more costly in the future, unless they can get OBS income up, which is the Carnival model of course.  I am hoping that, given the strong base of the overall Fred organization, they are making sound decisions, though if the investment is not that high, perhaps they are just taking a gamble.  We have just been seeing the holidays we like disappear with companies folding and places becoming no go over the last ten years, so paying more for a few special holidays before we are too old to travel does not seem too bad to us, but there has to be someone running those holidays, though go it alone has become more appealing to us of late, albeit a bit more of a strain.

 

Cheers,

 

Barbara

Edited July 19, 2020 by tring

[jeanlyon]

23 hours ago, Britboys said:

You had better hope that you have the option to go on Aurora in April Jean. If she isn't back sailing by then, I doubt we'll ever see her in P&O livery again...

You think Aurora will go as well Andrew?  What a crying shame if so.  I actually meant that until there is a vaccine, we probably would cancel that cruise.  We got such a good deal by booking early and now the prices for that cruise are £400 pp more than we paid.  Also, I am not sure I fancy cruising if there are going to be horrendous restrictions, masks, etc.

Edited July 19, 2020 by jeanlyon

[sleepingcat]

Hi Scottish maid

yes, the crew on Fred are mainly from Philipines where Fred has their own training academy.  I m impressed that they give Philipino crew opportunities for management etc.  It usually seems happy and crew stay a long time, on my birthday cruise in Jan 2019 we found some crew we had first met in 2012.  

 

I am delighted that Fred is acquiring these new ships, they seem just right.  We love smaller ships and have always enjoyed Fred. 

[Britboys]

21 hours ago, jeanlyon said:

You think Aurora will go as well Andrew?  What a crying shame if so.  I actually meant that until there is a vaccine, we probably would cancel that cruise.  We got such a good deal by booking early and now the prices for that cruise are £400 pp more than we paid.  Also, I am not sure I fancy cruising if there are going to be horrendous restrictions, masks, etc.

I'm certainly hoping not Jean. I guess the point I was trying to make is that if the Covid situation hasn't changed sufficiently by next April to allow P&O to be sailing all their ships, then yes, I would certainly fear for Aurora's future. Carnival's big boss, Arnold Donald, was interviewed recently and said that older, less efficient ships will be 'rotated' out of the companies' fleets in favour of the newer, more efficient ones. I don't think Aurora is on a current hit-list but if she isn't back sailing by next April, I feel she could well be by then. As you may have seen over on the P&O boards, P&O appear to be safe from further disposals IN 2020...

[comcox]

A thought came to me over the weekend about the good news of FO's purchase of new ships.  Those ships have no designated solo cabins the way Fred's older ships do.  What is that going to mean to those of us who often cruise solo in terms of availability and pricing?  When I sailed HAL I always had to pay a 100% single supplement on top of the regular fare.

[tring]

2 hours ago, comcox said:

A thought came to me over the weekend about the good news of FO's purchase of new ships.  Those ships have no designated solo cabins the way Fred's older ships do.  What is that going to mean to those of us who often cruise solo in terms of availability and pricing?  When I sailed HAL I always had to pay a 100% single supplement on top of the regular fare.

 

Interesting point, though I think I saw a children's area on a video of at least one of those new ships which I immediately thought would be transferred into more cabins, so singles would fit the bill well for Fred methinks and he does have form on doing that.  He also gives singles offers on certain cruises, but maybe not the sort of itineraries which would tempt you to fly the Atlantic.  I have also been looking at the new cabins and their sizes, which are a good size, so would perhaps command higher prices.  I am just hoping economies of scale will override that.

 

I expect prices to vary a fair bit due to itineraries with the popular, less common, ones having prices hiked and with the march of the big ships continuing this could well result in sale of more cabins which, lets face it, Fred is going to have to do as he will have more cabins to occupy and this could loose a lot of confidence in cruising, even when vaccine or good treatment is available.

 

For people who are not used to Fred's pricings, he tends to charge a fair bit at launch, but with some sort of offer regards tips/drinks or OBS and in the past has often offered 3 for 2 deals with the cheapest one free.  The better deals IMO though are the reduced freedom fare offers which appear at a later stage (can be about 6 months before sailing, but varies a lot) - these come up on the cruises which have not sold so well.  Sometimes, but not always, there are guarantee prices brought out later still, though not something we tend to use as the cabins left at that stage are often low down to the rear of the ship, which is not somewhere I would want to be on Fred's current old ships due to bad noise/vibration.  I have read the new ships do not have that problem as they have azipods - if anyone can fill me in a bit more regards that, I would appreciate it a lot, along with any other hints regards cabin locations. 

Edited July 20, 2020 by tring

[Britboys]

5 hours ago, comcox said:

A thought came to me over the weekend about the good news of FO's purchase of new ships.  Those ships have no designated solo cabins the way Fred's older ships do.  What is that going to mean to those of us who often cruise solo in terms of availability and pricing?  When I sailed HAL I always had to pay a 100% single supplement on top of the regular fare.

Assuming Fred is going to continue focussing on adult cruises and therefore doesn't want dedicated children's facilities, the Club HAL areas at the aft of deck 9 could be converted to solo cabins. This area is a bit of an odd shape - especially on Amsterdam but I dare say it could be done. Another potential area is the fairly large casino space, which will be surplus to requirements on Fred - but that is in the midst of all the entertainment spaces.

[ScottishMaid]

Thank you to those of you who answered my question about crew. On Holland America the room stewards and wait staff are Indonesian and the bar and wine waiters Filipino. Increasingly there are more women and Thais. The officers are Dutch with a few British. So it sounds similar.
We have sailed over 150 nights on both the Amsterdam and Rotterdam on long distance cruises to some amazing places so hoping Fred Olsen will assign good itineraries.
I am happy to answer questions. The Amsterdam has azipods but the Rotterdam does not.
We like the low down wrap around deck where 3 circuits equals one mile and there were deck chairs in the shade under the lifeboats with no music no pressure to buy. Perfect for reading or naps or watching the people walking. One reason for HAL to sell since non revenue generating space but much beloved by many passengers.
We also like the high up Crows Nest forward facing lounge for amazing views and the forward facing gym below it.
We liked the inside cabins midship on decks 2 and 3 (counting upwards) as they are very spacious, quiet, stable in rough weather and in good locations. However it is scary now to get an inside cabin after seeing people quarantined. There are relatively few balcony cabins, another reason for HAL to sell.



Sent from my iPhone using Forums

[hamishg]

On ‎7‎/‎19‎/‎2020 at 10:07 PM, tring said:

 

Hello again,

 

The deal Fred got is in the Bonheur link from the beginning of this thread.  We do not understand business/financial language, but with the help of Google it looks like it is payment free for the first three years, then two payments of 7.43 million with a fixed interest cost of 2.5% - and that is from the horses mouth, but it is possible we have misunderstood it.  Carnival are paying round about 10 to 11% on the loans they have got over this period, as a comparison.

 

There is a poster on the P&O threads who is obviously very well up on the Carnival business dealings and also how their cruise lines work.  He, (if it is a he), posted details of the latest meeting a week last Friday and has added a lot more since about the ship disposals.  The other two HAL ships were sold together, but no indication bought them.  The comments are mostly on the "Carnival to Dump Six Ships" thread, but he posts on other threads as well.  The news hotted up a lot since the last meeting a week last Friday as things have been happening very quickly.

 

Aida already have short cruises with no ports on sale from 3 German ports in August and Costa starting in a similar fashion I think.  Seems the very start will be cruises form home ports and most ships in or heading for the home bases at present.  German TUI doing similar and Hurtigruten  operating, but of course they are essential transport in Norway, rather than just leisure.  After that will presumably be fluid, but as you say Greece has low numbers at present (? of interest to Costa) and apparently the Caribbean Islands are keen to get some money in.  Virus numbers seem to be creeping up in most countries apart from the US, where the word creeping does not appear that valid in some areas, though as it is such a massive country I am sure there is a lot of other areas hardly affected (also given UK position I can hardly throw stones).  I assume you have seen the EU interim guidance document which has been well reported, it seems the individual countries are discussing their own requirements based on that with the UK talks continuing:-   https://www.healthygateways.eu/Portals/0/plcdocs/EU_HEALTHY_GATEWAYS_COVID-19_RESTARTING_CRUISES.pdf?ver=2020-07-01-115942-557

 

I do not know about TUI's funding, (you may have more knowledge), but as far as refunds go they seem to be down to CMV proportions, with one or two refunds just starting to appear over the last week or so.  It seems that, as a German company, they did get funding from the German Government early on in the crisis.  I joined a social media TUI group to see what I could glean regards our booked Spanish holiday with them, but not easy getting information between all the bad news/abuse the company are getting.  Thank heavens for CC, I always think we are a pretty civilized lot on here by comparison 🙂

 

I was also wondering about the ex Carnival ships running/planned for CMV, and the financial deal involved, as Carnival were reported as being creditors of CMV when the first sign of the problems arose a few weeks back.  So yes, any future involvement may be partly to mitigate other loses I presume, but again I could be talking gibberish as I have no business knowledge. 

 

Whatever happens with Fred I certainly hope he continues, but we are assuming all smaller ships will be more costly in the future, unless they can get OBS income up, which is the Carnival model of course.  I am hoping that, given the strong base of the overall Fred organization, they are making sound decisions, though if the investment is not that high, perhaps they are just taking a gamble.  We have just been seeing the holidays we like disappear with companies folding and places becoming no go over the last ten years, so paying more for a few special holidays before we are too old to travel does not seem too bad to us, but there has to be someone running those holidays, though go it alone has become more appealing to us of late, albeit a bit more of a strain.

 

Cheers,

 

Barbara

Hi again – thank you for the figures re Fred’s purchase of the HAL ships – I am presuming that the 2 payments of 7.43 million is per ship? – Otherwise he really did get them for a hellava cheap price! -I’d still be very interested to know where the other two went to.

It’s rather hard to get a handle on TUI – I gather they have had a fairly profitable run with the “Mein Schiff” fleet …they keep building new ones so things must be fairly good. (very well appointed ships too). If they weren’t doing well I doubt if they would have picked up Marella …. How deep are their pockets – who knows? The German Government have given them assistance once but this may have been also available to a lot of German companies to prevent them laying off too many staff. “Mein Schiff” is the premier German cruise company carrying a lot of German speaking cruisers, for it to fall would be a very bad look for the German economy, as such, I would imagine that more government funding is probably available should they need it.

In the meantime we can now all stop speculating about CMV – is anyone going to pull them out of liquidation? I rather doubt it – I figure the cruise industry are happy to see one less competitor in the market – very sad to see them go as they offered stabilising completion to the others and had especially good deals for solo cruisers.

I wonder if Fred is going to be tempted to have a “farewell voyage” or two for BD and BW – a short cruise – even with no ports would attract a lot of people who would like to have one last cruise on them – Fred would make good money too!

Cheers

Hamish

[tring]

1 hour ago, hamishg said:

 

It’s rather hard to get a handle on TUI – I gather they have had a fairly profitable run with the “Mein Schiff” fleet …they keep building new ones so things must be fairly good. (very well appointed ships too). If they weren’t doing well I doubt if they would have picked up Marella …. How deep are their pockets – who knows? The German Government have given them assistance once but this may have been also available to a lot of German companies to prevent them laying off too many staff. “Mein Schiff” is the premier German cruise company carrying a lot of German speaking cruisers, for it to fall would be a very bad look for the German economy, as such, I would imagine that more government funding is probably available should they need it.

 

 

Actually TUI are mainly a land based holiday company in the UK and the German TUI have a big presence in land holidays as well.  The UK part was originally Thomson and kept on trading as such over here after TUI took over about 20 years ago now.  The trade name of Thomson kept on for long time and the cruises they ran were also still known a Thomson cruises.  The trade name TUI came in over here in recent years, then they decided to call their cruises Marella Cruises to prevent confusion with the German TUI Cruises.   First Choice, another very big holiday company, was merged with them at some stage (not sure of business side of that) and the direct booking arm of both of those (Portland and Eclipse) were ditched by the company.  There have also been links with other brands, including a more up market one with tailor made packages and exotic tours (Hayes and Jarvis) that came and went a few years later.  So TUI is certainly is a big company with a lot of travel agency branches as well. Since Thomas Cook went down, it is the only really big, well known, company offering mass market holidays and I have no reason to think they are in a bad way business wise.  They are certainly causing a lot of people a whole lot of grief mind.  At least their land holidays are now starting off again, albeit slowly with a lot of holidays still being cancelled.

 

Our Tui Spanish holiday for November has now been cancelled (thankfully as we did not want to go), so with CMV as well, we have now lost two holidays in 2 days with different companies.  Looks like we can re book our land holiday and our insurance company will let us retain full insurance for COVID (even for cancellation), so we are thinking of doing that, perhaps for next spring in the hope we can be vaccinated by then, but will choose a holiday in a quiet location which would not be too much of a risk if restrictions still in place.

 

Yes sad about CMV, and particularly for all the people who will loose their jobs because of it, but it was looking a mammouth task for them to keep going, as cruises do not look like they are going anywhere much for some time.  I wonder when Fred will publish his future cruise plans and what they will be - definitely a watch this space job.

 

Cheers,

 

Barbara 

 

 

Edited July 21, 2020 by tring

[tring]

2 hours ago, ScottishMaid said:

Thank you to those of you who answered my question about crew. On Holland America the room stewards and wait staff are Indonesian and the bar and wine waiters Filipino. Increasingly there are more women and Thais. The officers are Dutch with a few British. So it sounds similar.
We have sailed over 150 nights on both the Amsterdam and Rotterdam on long distance cruises to some amazing places so hoping Fred Olsen will assign good itineraries.
I am happy to answer questions. The Amsterdam has azipods but the Rotterdam does not.
We like the low down wrap around deck where 3 circuits equals one mile and there were deck chairs in the shade under the lifeboats with no music no pressure to buy. Perfect for reading or naps or watching the people walking. One reason for HAL to sell since non revenue generating space but much beloved by many passengers.
We also like the high up Crows Nest forward facing lounge for amazing views and the forward facing gym below it.
We liked the inside cabins midship on decks 2 and 3 (counting upwards) as they are very spacious, quiet, stable in rough weather and in good locations. However it is scary now to get an inside cabin after seeing people quarantined. There are relatively few balcony cabins, another reason for HAL to sell.



Sent from my iPhone using Forums

 

Thank you for this information which is appreciated.  Do you find that Amsterdam has less vibration than Rotterdam to the rear of midships since it has azipods?  I think all newer ships are less of a problem in that way though.  I have also heard azipods help with maneuverability, is that correct?

 

Fred has put terrace balconies on the prom decks of Black Watch and Boudicca with acesss from the cabins there, but those ships had quite wide prom decks so it still leaves plenty of space to walk around the ship, which is a big tradition on Fred.  Does mean other passengers cannot camp out by those cabins now though as they used to.  If that can be done on the new ships he could well have the same thing in mind.

 

Barbara

Edited July 21, 2020 by tring

[ScottishMaid]

I think the azipods are to give easier docking. I never get a cabin at the back of a ship so not sure about vibration. Maybe when docking?
Both ships have some lanai cabins, which have a sliding door opening on to the walk around deck and each of these cabins have 2 dedicated deck chairs, at least on HAL. The cabins have a smaller sofa and no drawers due to the door.

[Cruising Is Bliss]

9 hours ago, ScottishMaid said:

We liked the inside cabins midship on decks 2 and 3 (counting upwards) as they are very spacious, quiet, stable in rough weather and in good locations. However it is scary now to get an inside cabin after seeing people quarantined. There are relatively few balcony cabins, another reason for HAL to sell.



Sent from my iPhone using Forums

 

I second both parts of this. Loved the Amsterdam inside cabins midship on deck 3. There's a block of 7 inside cabins between the atrium and the midship stairs. It's the Promenade deck so there's doors to outside between the midship stairs & elevators.  Despite how much I loved it, don't think I'd ever be comfortable in an inside cabin again.

[Britboys]

Just a thought - and a plea if anyone from Fred is looking in on this board. Please don't re-carpet the Crows Nest/Observatory with that hideous 'nautical-themed' design one!😄

[tring]

A lot of comments being made about CMV having gone into admin - also seems CMV in the US appears to still be trading according to a comment on the CMV Boards - can search for recent posts on this thread :-

 

https://boards.cruisecritic.co.uk/topic/2756105-cmv-cease-trading/

 

 

This thread from the P&O boards also contains interesting information regards CMV and possible Carnival links:-

 

https://boards.cruisecritic.co.uk/topic/2756104-cmv-cease-trading/

 

Happy reading 🙂

 

 

[hamishg]

23 hours ago, tring said:

 

Actually TUI are mainly a land based holiday company in the UK and the German TUI have a big presence in land holidays as well.  The UK part was originally Thomson and kept on trading as such over here after TUI took over about 20 years ago now.  The trade name of Thomson kept on for long time and the cruises they ran were also still known a Thomson cruises.  The trade name TUI came in over here in recent years, then they decided to call their cruises Marella Cruises to prevent confusion with the German TUI Cruises.   First Choice, another very big holiday company, was merged with them at some stage (not sure of business side of that) and the direct booking arm of both of those (Portland and Eclipse) were ditched by the company.  There have also been links with other brands, including a more up market one with tailor made packages and exotic tours (Hayes and Jarvis) that came and went a few years later.  So TUI is certainly is a big company with a lot of travel agency branches as well. Since Thomas Cook went down, it is the only really big, well known, company offering mass market holidays and I have no reason to think they are in a bad way business wise.  They are certainly causing a lot of people a whole lot of grief mind.  At least their land holidays are now starting off again, albeit slowly with a lot of holidays still being cancelled.

 

Our Tui Spanish holiday for November has now been cancelled (thankfully as we did not want to go), so with CMV as well, we have now lost two holidays in 2 days with different companies.  Looks like we can re book our land holiday and our insurance company will let us retain full insurance for COVID (even for cancellation), so we are thinking of doing that, perhaps for next spring in the hope we can be vaccinated by then, but will choose a holiday in a quiet location which would not be too much of a risk if restrictions still in place.

 

Yes sad about CMV, and particularly for all the people who will loose their jobs because of it, but it was looking a mammouth task for them to keep going, as cruises do not look like they are going anywhere much for some time.  I wonder when Fred will publish his future cruise plans and what they will be - definitely a watch this space job.

 

Cheers,

 

Barbara 

 

 

Yes I agree its sad for everyone involved with CMV - it may portend an even bigger expansion (in the medium term) for Marella? Good luck with the next holiday booking!

[Britboys]

9 hours ago, hamishg said:

Yes I agree its sad for everyone involved with CMV - it may portend an even bigger expansion (in the medium term) for Marella? Good luck with the next holiday booking!

Not sure about Marella expanding on the back of CMV's demise. CMV's main market was ex-uk departures from a number of regional ports. To date, Marella have largely offered fly-cruise packages. Having sailed once on both lines, they also seem to attract quite a different passenger base.

[hamishg]

19 hours ago, Britboys said:

Not sure about Marella expanding on the back of CMV's demise. CMV's main market was ex-uk departures from a number of regional ports. To date, Marella have largely offered fly-cruise packages. Having sailed once on both lines, they also seem to attract quite a different passenger base.

I agree Marella do attract a different passenger base but if Fred is left as the only choice for a smaller ship cruise from the UK, and his prices don't fit peoples budgets - or they feel that the value isn't there ......then there could be a number who say "lets try Marella" even if the thought (fly/cruise) irks them a bit. Marella offers a diverse range of itineraries and they may designate a ship or two to be "Adults only" to try and fit in more with Fred and CMV's client base.... the "no tipping" is also an incentive. It will be interesting to see what develops but I doubt if any line is going to try and expand very quickly.

[Britboys]

4 hours ago, hamishg said:

I agree Marella do attract a different passenger base but if Fred is left as the only choice for a smaller ship cruise from the UK, and his prices don't fit peoples budgets - or they feel that the value isn't there ......then there could be a number who say "lets try Marella" even if the thought (fly/cruise) irks them a bit. Marella offers a diverse range of itineraries and they may designate a ship or two to be "Adults only" to try and fit in more with Fred and CMV's client base.... the "no tipping" is also an incentive. It will be interesting to see what develops but I doubt if any line is going to try and expand very quickly.

It will indeed be very interesting. I must say that after my one Marella cruise, it would take a very tempting itinerary and exceptional bargain price to drag me back on board one of their ships 😄

[Britboys]

The two ships are now anchored just south of the Suez Canal, no doubt awaiting their transit slot.

[tring]

Just a heads up that Fred is giving an extra discount for people whose cruises have been cancelled because of the collapse of CMV.  I have explained it on a thread posted on the CMV section of these boards.

[davecttr]

On 7/23/2020 at 6:20 AM, hamishg said:

I agree Marella do attract a different passenger base but if Fred is left as the only choice for a smaller ship cruise from the UK, and his prices don't fit peoples budgets - or they feel that the value isn't there ......then there could be a number who say "lets try Marella" even if the thought (fly/cruise) irks them a bit. Marella offers a diverse range of itineraries and they may designate a ship or two to be "Adults only" to try and fit in more with Fred and CMV's client base.... the "no tipping" is also an incentive. It will be interesting to see what develops but I doubt if any line is going to try and expand very quickly.

Marella already have an adults only ship in Explorer2, the smaller sister ship of Explorer which IMO is at least as good for facilities as the mid sized P&O ships and is modernised. They spent 50 million euros on refurbishing the cabins and public areas when it moved to TUI and more when they remodelled it to the british taste.

 

Of course Marella is casual and some like formality. Also, being a fly cruise operation you are going to attract families. As for being a 'lower' class of clientele, I have seen as many drunks and worse bad behaviour in P&O.

 

The problem for me is I now don't want to fly and Marella don't base a ship in the UK. Fred is just too old an ambience for me, I am only 69.

 

Depending on how Fred refurbish the new ships and their onboard facilities. I will take another look in a year or so.

Edited July 25, 2020 by davecttr

[Colin_Cameron]

1 hour ago, davecttr said:

Fred is just too old an ambience for me, I am only 69.

Hmm. Not sure what that says about us. Almost a decade younger than you, and started cruising with Fred 20 years ago.

[Britboys]

Rotterdam and Amsterdam have now just exited the northern end of the Suez Canal.