Omg. Fred have bought the 2 flagships of Holland America! We finally get decent sized ships in the UK!

[rkacruiser]

7 hours ago, ovccruiser said:

I doubt HAL's deck naming complies with Fred's so they will need to be changed. 

 

There is nothing HAL specific about the names of the decks on the former Rotterdam and Amsterdam:  Dolphin Deck, Main Deck, Lower Promenade Deck, etc.  

 

The only thing that I can think of that might require renaming are the Penthouse Suites on both ships.

 

 

Edited August 30, 2020 by rkacruiser

[Britboys]

12 hours ago, rkacruiser said:

 

There is nothing HAL specific about the names of the decks on the former Rotterdam and Amsterdam:  Dolphin Deck, Main Deck, Lower Promenade Deck, etc.  

 

The only thing that I can think of that might require renaming are the Penthouse Suites on both ships.

 

 

No, but Fred Olsen ships all have decks named pretty much the same, such as Marina, Atlantic, Main, Lounge, Lido, Bridge etc. They may want to stick to these for familiarity.

[tring]

17 hours ago, JMyrtle said:

If Fred starts encouraging families the two cruises we have booked next year will be our last, I don't "do" children! 

 

Fred does run a "Little Skippers Club" in the summer school holidays, but I think it is not on all summer cruises, so I suspect it would not be on Greenland cruises for instance.  I also suspect there are very few children and a number of them will be with grandparents, or perhaps families traveling with grandparents, given the normal age of Fred's passengers.  I have never been on a school holiday cruise though, so have no personal knowledge. There are no special facilities for children on the current Fred ships and I also expect to see them and the casino gone when the new ship's sail.

 

I would not be surprised to see more cabins appear somewhere, probably singles as Fred has a lot of single passengers.  He also tends to give "singles offers" on certain cruises at a later stage (basically cruises that have not sold well).

[Britboys]

40 minutes ago, tring said:

 

Fred does run a "Little Skippers Club" in the summer school holidays, but I think it is not on all summer cruises, so I suspect it would not be on Greenland cruises for instance.  I also suspect there are very few children and a number of them will be with grandparents, or perhaps families traveling with grandparents, given the normal age of Fred's passengers.  I have never been on a school holiday cruise though, so have no personal knowledge. There are no special facilities for children on the current Fred ships and I also expect to see them and the casino gone when the new ship's sail.

 

I would not be surprised to see more cabins appear somewhere, probably singles as Fred has a lot of single passengers.  He also tends to give "singles offers" on certain cruises at a later stage (basically cruises that have not sold well).

Looking at the current deck plans, it would seem feasible to construct some single cabins in the children's area on deck 9. Some of them could end up an odd shape mind you. The Lanai cabins on deck 3 are, from what I have seen, smaller than most of the cabins on this ship, with less storage, so maybe some or all of those could be designated as singles?

[rotjeknor]

You are all very lucky cruisers ! We’ve done 9 cruises on the Rotterdam and just love this ship. So sad to see it leave the HAL fleet ... I might just become a FredOlsen cruiser!

[rkacruiser]

6 hours ago, Britboys said:

. The Lanai cabins on deck 3 are, from what I have seen, smaller than most of the cabins on this ship, with less storage, so maybe some or all of those could be designated as singles

 

These outside cabins are smaller than other categories of outside cabins.  For two, I think it would feel "cramped", but for one, it probably would be OK.  Since they are Lanai cabins, they probably would demand a premium price, however.  

[tring]

6 hours ago, Britboys said:

Looking at the current deck plans, it would seem feasible to construct some single cabins in the children's area on deck 9. Some of them could end up an odd shape mind you. The Lanai cabins on deck 3 are, from what I have seen, smaller than most of the cabins on this ship, with less storage, so maybe some or all of those could be designated as singles?

 

I was looking at the Lanai cabins and did not think a lot of them TBH, but better than an inside admittedly and will be a nice big window.  I have a hunch Fred will hope to get more cash for those and sell them as doubles though - but we will see.  Fred has also given double cabins for single use on certain cruises, again as an offer - often about 9 months before the cruise (probably cruises that have not sold well).  Those offers tend to be only on certain grades, e.g. porthole cabins on Black Watch and Boudicca  and possibly some higher grades, but I am not sure about that, I know a friend had booked a porthole with that offer.  I do not think it tends to come up for inside cabins though.

 

Good luck getting your cabin sorted, if you still want the cruise.  I am hoping we will get our new cabin number tomorrow or soon after, if not I will be ringing our agent to see what they know,

 

Cheers,

 

Barbara

Edited August 31, 2020 by tring

[tring]

Post just arrived and nothing from Fred, so still waiting to hear about our Black Watch Cruise for July.  People have mentioned getting letters from Fred, so think it will be by post rather than email which is a pain for us as our post is often delayed, or does not arrive at all.  I hope our notification does not get lost.

[Britboys]

20 minutes ago, tring said:

Post just arrived and nothing from Fred, so still waiting to hear about our Black Watch Cruise for July.  People have mentioned getting letters from Fred, so think it will be by post rather than email which is a pain for us as our post is often delayed, or does not arrive at all.  I hope our notification does not get lost.

My cruise is 23rd June and my letter came on Saturday, so hopefully yours is in the post. I got through to Fred Olsen by phone this morning without any wait at all and dealt with a professional, polite and helpful chap. He listened patiently to me very politely go on at some length and then I held on whilst he spoke to one of his managers. Sadly, they would not move me back to a very mid-ships cabin location on Bolette as they are a grade higher. He was however able to move us to a cabin further back from the bow, maybe about a third of the way down the ship. Also, in respect of the significant change of itinerary, after various options offered, I accepted a gesture of goodwill in the form of some obc.

They could have been a bit more generous in terms of the cabin but I am, if not over the moon, content with the resolution. After all, the Bolette cabin will be larger and more modern than that on Boudicca and have a picture window rather than porthole, so it is kind of an upgrade anyway.

This has restored my faith a bit in Fred as a company, although I still feel that they could have dealt with this situation better at the outset.

Edited September 1, 2020 by Britboys

[JMyrtle]

Sorry but no, a contract is a contract! 

Certainly in my case we chose and booked an interior I grade cabin midships on the Marina deck on Boudicca on the 31st ofJuly, all I grade interior cabins are midships on Boudicca. 

On the date they accepted the booking Fred's management, but probably not the sales teams, must have known there was no possibility of honouring the contract they had just entered into to provide any cabin on Boudicca because they had already sold her and she would not sail in Fred Olsen livery again. 

Regardless of whether midships interior cabins are a higher grade or not Fred are contracted to provide us with a midships interior cabin and that is what they must provide or they are in breach of contract. 

My husband has a fear of water and also suffers badly with sea sickness so a midships cabin where he cannot feel the motion of the ship is essential, if we are not given one as agreed we may have to cancel. 

Fobbing you off with a poorer placed cabin and an on board spend, (which we have as part of our package anyway and are unlikely to spend) is not good enough and probably not legal. 

Just had a thought, I suppose we could for go our existing on board spend and accept an upgrade instead🤔

[tring]

1 hour ago, Britboys said:

My cruise is 23rd June and my letter came on Saturday, so hopefully yours is in the post. I got through to Fred Olsen by phone this morning without any wait at all and dealt with a professional, polite and helpful chap. He listened patiently to me very politely go on at some length and then I held on whilst he spoke to one of his managers. Sadly, they would not move me back to a very mid-ships cabin location on Bolette as they are a grade higher. He was however able to move us to a cabin further back from the bow, maybe about a third of the way down the ship. Also, in respect of the significant change of itinerary, after various options offered, I accepted a gesture of goodwill in the form of some obc.

They could have been a bit more generous in terms of the cabin but I am, if not over the moon, content with the resolution. After all, the Bolette cabin will be larger and more modern than that on Boudicca and have a picture window rather than porthole, so it is kind of an upgrade anyway.

This has restored my faith a bit in Fred as a company, although I still feel that they could have dealt with this situation better at the outset.

 

 

Not the best as you say, but TBH they have always charged a lot more for windows, c.f. portholes.  I would also prefer the front to the back at that time of year due to possible vibration, though as Bolette has azipods, she should have less vibration than Borealis. Fred's customers are very wary of the back of the ships as the current ships are of an age to have a lot of vibration.  If you ever sail on Braemar, be particularly wary of the back as she is very unstable on the seas with the back lifting, then crashing down suddenly.  Lots of broken crockery is not unusual on Braemar.  Your only worry may be the thrusters, though probably not.  If you do have any cabin problems on the ship make it known nippily and they will likely be able to move you then, they are good about that if it is possible.

 

Fred's staff do stand out as being very polite, pleasant and well spoken, I could never give less than 10/10 for that and must help a lot in this climate as a less competent member of staff could easily provoke an unhappy customer, letting tensions really rise.  Sad to have heard that Fred has had to let some head office ghhstaff go, which is a loss to Fred as well as the staff.  I do hope at least some, can be re employed on the future.

 

We have decided that the cabin locations on the new ships are not the best as there are not a lot of cabins which are surrounded by other cabins, which we always look for.  The deck 1 insides being particularly problematic regards that and there are quite a lot we would never consider booking and would not accept now.  We are still concerned about the smaller ports on our itinerary though, which along with Bordeaux, may be more of deal breaker than a cabin location as itinerary is the prime reason we book any cruise.  I would not fancy bouncing round the BOB at the pointy end either mind.

 

Hope all goes well with your cruise,

 

Barbara

 

 

 

[tring]

31 minutes ago, JMyrtle said:

 

Fobbing you off with a poorer placed cabin and an on board spend, (which we have as part of our package anyway and are unlikely to spend) is not good enough and probably not legal. 

Just had a thought, I suppose we could for go our existing on board spend and accept an upgrade instead🤔

 

I cannot see how it could be illegal for Fred to make a suggestion and then agree a compromise with a customer.  You are correct though, that Fred cannot insist on someone taking any change that is not insignificant and the customer can insist they cancel and even then should be entitled to some compensation as I have mentioned previously.  

 

Fred has clearly decided to deal with this on person by person basis.  Although in some respects this can seem difficult for some customers, each will have their own preferences and arriving at an agreement does have advantages.  Of course this is not purely a ship, or indeed cabin issue, but some itineraries will clear be impacted as well.  Whilst we still do not know what our proposed to changes will be, some are obvious and cancelling seems a good way forward for us, but like I suspect others are feeling, it could be easier to accept an agreed compromise and still have the holiday to look forward to.  I hope all goes well for you, 

 

Barbara

Edited September 1, 2020 by tring

[Britboys]

29 minutes ago, tring said:

 

Not the best as you say, but TBH they have always charged a lot more for windows, c.f. portholes.  I would also prefer the front to the back at that time of year due to possible vibration, though as Bolette has azipods, she should have less vibration than Borealis. Fred's customers are very wary of the back of the ships as the current ships are of an age to have a lot of vibration.  If you ever sail on Braemar, be particularly wary of the back as she is very unstable on the seas with the back lifting, then crashing down suddenly.  Lots of broken crockery is not unusual on Braemar.  Your only worry may be the thrusters, though probably not.  If you do have any cabin problems on the ship make it known nippily and they will likely be able to move you then, they are good about that if it is possible.

 

Fred's staff do stand out as being very polite, pleasant and well spoken, I could never give less than 10/10 for that and must help a lot in this climate as a less competent member of staff could easily provoke an unhappy customer, letting tensions really rise.  Sad to have heard that Fred has had to let some head office ghhstaff go, which is a loss to Fred as well as the staff.  I do hope at least some, can be re employed on the future.

 

We have decided that the cabin locations on the new ships are not the best as there are not a lot of cabins which are surrounded by other cabins, which we always look for.  The deck 1 insides being particularly problematic regards that and there are quite a lot we would never consider booking and would not accept now.  We are still concerned about the smaller ports on our itinerary though, which along with Bordeaux, may be more of deal breaker than a cabin location as itinerary is the prime reason we book any cruise.  I would not fancy bouncing round the BOB at the pointy end either mind.

 

Hope all goes well with your cruise,

 

Barbara

 

 

 

Thanks Barbara. At least I can now look forward to it - Covid permitting. Don't worry, if there is any problem with the cabin, they will know. I spent over 13 years in front-facing customer services and my cruise buddy was a BA Purser for many years, so between us we are quite good at speaking out appropriately 😀. Also, between us we have a wealth of cruises and cruise lines under our belts so I think we can say we know what we are talking about.

I have seen a lot of reports on Braemar's rocking & rolling, so although I am quite a good sailor, I would choose an itinerary likely to bring calm seas before booking her.

I hope you get something decent sorted for your cruise too.

[Britboys]

44 minutes ago, JMyrtle said:

Sorry but no, a contract is a contract! 

Certainly in my case we chose and booked an interior I grade cabin midships on the Marina deck on Boudicca on the 31st ofJuly, all I grade interior cabins are midships on Boudicca. 

On the date they accepted the booking Fred's management, but probably not the sales teams, must have known there was no possibility of honouring the contract they had just entered into to provide any cabin on Boudicca because they had already sold her and she would not sail in Fred Olsen livery again. 

Regardless of whether midships interior cabins are a higher grade or not Fred are contracted to provide us with a midships interior cabin and that is what they must provide or they are in breach of contract. 

My husband has a fear of water andr also suffers badly with sea sickness so a midships cabin where he cannot feel the motion of the ship is essential, if we are not given one as agreed we may have to cancel. 

Fobbing you off with a poorer placed cabin and an on board spend, (which we have as part of our package anyway and are unlikely to spend) is not good enough and probably not legal. 

Just had a thought, I suppose we could for go our existing on board spend and accept an upgrade instead🤔

I understand what you are saying and I think if I were in your situation I might well have pushed for more. When we chose to transfer our booking because our May cruise had been cancelled, Fred would not have known they were going to acquire the 2 new ships. We are now maybe a dozen cabins forward of the mid-ships point of Bolette, so are happy enough with that. I was given the option of upgrading to the next cabin grade and getting pretty close to mid-ships but with less obc, so they were being flexible. I am content with what they have offered and as mentioned, do feel that we have a better cabin than we would have on Boudicca. We had booked an E grade outside cabin on Boudicca but in most ways, the one on Bolette is commensurate with a C grade on Boudicca.

I think Fred are very much looking at individual circumstances, so if you stay calm and polite when you talk to them and explain all the circumstances, I am sure they will try to help.

You do very well to get your husband on a ship I must say!😀

[tring]

39 minutes ago, Britboys said:

Thanks Barbara. At least I can now look forward to it - Covid permitting. Don't worry, if there is any problem with the cabin, they will know. I spent over 13 years in front-facing customer services and my cruise buddy was a BA Purser for many years, so between us we are quite good at speaking out appropriately 😀. Also, between us we have a wealth of cruises and cruise lines under our belts so I think we can say we know what we are talking about.

I have seen a lot of reports on Braemar's rocking & rolling, so although I am quite a good sailor, I would choose an itinerary likely to bring calm seas before booking her.

I hope you get something decent sorted for your cruise too.

 

Some good experiences behind you then, My husband spent a working life in consumer protection, with a particular emphasis on the legal work for a lot of that time, and certainly very helpful on occasions. 🙂

 

We actually are quite found of Braemar and have found a well placed cabin is fine, even in rough seas, but keeping away from the front and back are essentials rather than preferences on her.  We have done a lot of deck 4 midship insides and also deck 6 outsides (many obstructed or partially so due to lifeboats).  Again mid ship cabins on deck 6 were fine e.g. a few cabins to the rear of the balconies (and I am a bad sailor), but 6051 was getting a bit rocky.  a lot of rough seas as well, since we kept doing the Atlantc (Canaries and Cape Verde in November) as we got some good prices and loved the ship, crew and itineraries.  Some fun on the Grampian restaurant and the self service, which I woul dnot recommend for anyone with brittle bones - just in case, but it was basically the odd crash, which strangely did not give me any feeling of sea sickness.  Braemar is the one with very shallow draught as well, so does a lot of the river/canal stuff.

Edited September 1, 2020 by tring

[Britboys]

11 minutes ago, tring said:

 

Some good experiences behind you then, My husband spent a working life in consumer protection, with a particular emphasis on the legal work for a lot of that time, and certainly very helpful on occasions. 🙂

 

We actually are quite found of Braemar and have found a well placed cabin is fine, even in rough seas, but keeping away from the front and back are essentials rather than preferences on her.  We have done a lot of deck 4 midship insides and also deck 6 outsides (many obstructed or partially so due to lifeboats).  Again mid ship cabins on deck 6 were fine e.g. a few cabins to the rear of the balconies (and I am a bad sailor), but 6051 was getting a bit rocky.  a lot of rough seas as well, since we kept doing the Atlantc (Canaries and Cape Verde in November) as we got some good prices and loved the ship, crew and itineraries.  Some fun on the Grampian restaurant and the self service, which I woul dnot recommend for anyone with brittle bones - just in case, but it was basically the odd crash, which strangely did not give me any feeling of sea sickness.  Braemar is the one with very shallow draught as well, so does a lot of the river/canal stuff.

I'll keep my fingers crossed that Braemar gets a stint 'down south' with itineraries through the Kiel Canal and/or up the Seine to Rouen then!😀

[ovccruiser]

3 hours ago, JMyrtle said:

Sorry but no, a contract is a contract! 

Certainly in my case we chose and booked an interior I grade cabin midships on the Marina deck on Boudicca on the 31st ofJuly, all I grade interior cabins are midships on Boudicca. 

On the date they accepted the booking Fred's management, but probably not the sales teams, must have known there was no possibility of honouring the contract they had just entered into to provide any cabin on Boudicca because they had already sold her and she would not sail in Fred Olsen livery again. 

Regardless of whether midships interior cabins are a higher grade or not Fred are contracted to provide us with a midships interior cabin and that is what they must provide or they are in breach of contract. 

My husband has a fear of water and also suffers badly with sea sickness so a midships cabin where he cannot feel the motion of the ship is essential, if we are not given one as agreed we may have to cancel. 

Fobbing you off with a poorer placed cabin and an on board spend, (which we have as part of our package anyway and are unlikely to spend) is not good enough and probably not legal. 

Just had a thought, I suppose we could for go our existing on board spend and accept an upgrade instead🤔

Sorry, but all I grade cabins are not mid ships, I Grade is on Marina deck 3 and are all inside cabins on that deck from stern to bow and that is probably where the problem lies, On the new ship with more cabins they probably have more grades.

Edited September 1, 2020 by ovccruiser

[JMyrtle]

The inside I grade cabins on Boudicca are as you correctly say on Marina deck 3 but they are all mid ship  and are 3008, 3014, 16,17, 19, 22, 24, 25, 27, 30, 33, 44, 46, 47, 49, 52, 55, 58, 60, 61, 63, and 69 except two odd ones 3099 and 3101 which have baths and are situated on their own  right at the stern. 

We have chosen and booked cabin 3044 which is exactly dead centre  in the ship  as shown in the latest Boudicca deck plan in the 2021/22brocure we were sent a few weeks ago.

We have sailed on Boudicca many times because Dover is her home port and only ever book a cabin in the centre block 3044,, 46, 47, 49, 52, 55,  58, 60, 61 63, or 69, there has never been a problem until now. 

The alternative cabin we have been given on Bolette is right at the stern over the propellers and is just not acceptable. 

Edited September 1, 2020 by JMyrtle

[Britboys]

According to Marine Traffic, Rotterdam now appears to be underway, having recently left Scheveningen. Estimated arrival at Rosyth 0900 on 3rd September. Amsterdam still appears to be in dry dock at Botlek, Rotterdam. She's been there a while now...

[tring]

2 hours ago, ovccruiser said:

Sorry, but all I grade cabins are not mid ships, I Grade is on Marina deck 3 and are all inside cabins on that deck from stern to bow and that is probably where the problem lies, On the new ship with more cabins they probably have more grades.

 

The cabin grade is totally irrelevant.  According to The Package Travel Regs Fred cannot insist on a change unless it is insignificant. 

 

Hence if Fred wants people to continue with their booking on the new ships, he needs their agreement and would also be liable to give some form of compensation for disappointment should those people not wish to cruise on the new ships.  If Fred would prefer people to claim a refund and some compensation, rather than cruise on their new ships, then so be it.  If however he wants to keep those bookings he needs to offer something that is acceptable to the individuals concerned.  The choice is Fred''s.

 

Fred is doing the right thing by agreeing with individuals what is an equivalent cabin for them as I suspect he will not want to loose the bookings.  Remember that some itineraries are also being changed because they cannot be performed by the new ships which are twice the size.

 

 

[showingdiva]

8 hours ago, Britboys said:

According to Marine Traffic, Rotterdam now appears to be underway, having recently left Scheveningen. Estimated arrival at Rosyth 0900 on 3rd September. Amsterdam still appears to be in dry dock at Botlek, Rotterdam. She's been there a while now...

 

We don't have any decent video on the Firth of Forth, however anyone who wants to watch her (hopefully) negotiating the three bridges, there's a forth bridge website then click on to the panomax camera which pans from the Hound Point oil terminal to Rosyth.

[Britboys]

Rotterdam is sailing at a sedate 10 knots and is currently east of Bridlington. Amsterdam was moved out of dry dock early this morning but remains in Botlek.

[gstewart]

Amsterdam appears to be taking on fuel for the trip north. Don’t think it will be long before she leaves either. 
 

I presume they will be repainted and renamed in Babcock’s dry docks at Rosyth where the aircraft carriers were constructed?

[ovccruiser]

16 hours ago, tring said:

 

The cabin grade is totally irrelevant.  According to The Package Travel Regs Fred cannot insist on a change unless it is insignificant. 

 

Hence if Fred wants people to continue with their booking on the new ships, he needs their agreement and would also be liable to give some form of compensation for disappointment should those people not wish to cruise on the new ships.  If Fred would prefer people to claim a refund and some compensation, rather than cruise on their new ships, then so be it.  If however he wants to keep those bookings he needs to offer something that is acceptable to the individuals concerned.  The choice is Fred''s.

 

Fred is doing the right thing by agreeing with individuals what is an equivalent cabin for them as I suspect he will not want to loose the bookings.  Remember that some itineraries are also being changed because they cannot be performed by the new ships which are twice the size.

 

 

The cabin grade is not irrelevant, they have booked the lowest grade cabin and are probably offered the equivalent on the new ship, which may not be mid ships. As I said, with more cabins there are probably more grades and the lowest grade on the new ship may not be mid ships. It will be down to them to argue the point with Fred and I do hope they are successful, but I do understand Freds point. If, for example, you look at Queen Mary2 deck plans, a much bigger ship, ignoring deck 4 as there are no mid ship cabins, deck 5 shows 4 different grades and I am sure with more cabins Fred may do the same.

[Britboys]

6 hours ago, gstewart said:

Amsterdam appears to be taking on fuel for the trip north. Don’t think it will be long before she leaves either. 
 

I presume they will be repainted and renamed in Babcock’s dry docks at Rosyth where the aircraft carriers were constructed?

She's still alongside at the moment but the Tender that was in the water has disappeared, so presumably now back on the ship.

Rotterdam definitely moving sedately - she's now east of Hartlepool.

Yes, Fred announced that the ships were to get the Fred Olsen treatment whilst up in Rosyth, so no doubt the livery and the names will be done there. Also, on-board changes to rename bars, lounges and restaurants, some in line with their fleetmates, such as the Morning Light Pub, Bookmark Café and Oriental Room etc. Will be interesting to see what they name the main dining rooms - the previous Celtic connections won't really apply on ships with names reflecting Fred's Norwegian heritage...

Edited September 2, 2020 by Britboys