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Masks on Ships

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Posted (edited)
55 minutes ago, NMTraveller said:

The interaction between you and your fellow guests....

 

 

 

.... would quite honestly be the last of my worries. I don't go on a cruise with a specific goal being to socialize, or participate in many group-oriented activities, games, etc., although have enjoyed lots of conversations with others and sharing stories during our cruises. You're right though....need to communicate effectively with servers and staff, etc. Guess we'll all walk around sounding like the adults in the Charlie Brown programs.  "Wah....wa...wa...waaaaaah...."..."Excuse me what was that again?" 

Edited by OnTheJourney

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13 hours ago, hvbaskey said:

 

DH has had chronic asthma since a young child and is the first to put on his N95 mask (he had these in stock pre-pandemic for when he works around the house).

 

Kudos, and if someone who has chronic asthma can wear a mask, there are lot of whiners who say they have health problems and can throw tantrums who should be thankful they can scream and have a fit, and use that energy to shut up and wear a mask 😉

 

I for one have no problem wearing a mask.  Even if this pandemic gets suppressed it will linger around forever just like the flu coming back again and again.  Wearing a mask will be totally acceptable, and when we get to that time.  I'll be wearing them not to protect YOU from me, but to protect ME from you!

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On 7/23/2020 at 7:15 PM, jg51 said:

"It's unfortunate that there is so much disinformation being propagated by the anti-maskers."

 

We have not encountered anti-maskers "propagating disinformation," and we ourselves do not do so.  Rather, we (1) explain facts regarding why masks are extremely unpleasant to so many, and (2) we offer an opinion that masks are disgusting, regardless of "style and size." 

 

Nevertheless, we also wear masks where they are required by law (while feeling disgusted with every breath taken)!

 

We cannot help noticing that those who oppose us seem to focus on just one point (Oxygen versus Carbon Dioxide), when we made SEVEN points, six of which they conveniently ignore.  Even if we were to be persuaded that masked people get enough Oxygen, we would still stand firm in hating masks, because the other six points are incontrovertible. 

 

PS:  Our belief that there is insufficient Oxygen taken in came, not from hearing/reading any comment from another person, but from our very first experience wearing a mask for sixty minutes: Oxygen deprivation and excess Carbon Dioxide caused a headache.

Bless your heart.

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11 hours ago, chipmaster said:

 

Kudos, and if someone who has chronic asthma can wear a mask, there are lot of whiners who say they have health problems and can throw tantrums who should be thankful they can scream and have a fit, and use that energy to shut up and wear a mask 😉

 

I for one have no problem wearing a mask.  Even if this pandemic gets suppressed it will linger around forever just like the flu coming back again and again.  Wearing a mask will be totally acceptable, and when we get to that time.  I'll be wearing them not to protect YOU from me, but to protect ME from you!

The main benefit to having everyone wear a mask (according to reports that I have read) is that the COVID sick people wear them and that reduces the spread of the disease.  The individual masks exclusive of that do very little to protect the individual.

 

Once there is a vaccine, why would the vaccinated person need to wear a mask?

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Please consider that wearing a mask protects just others from you but not you from others around without masks. Standard masks are a one way protection.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Saab4444 said:

Please consider that wearing a mask protects just others from you but not you from others around without masks. Standard masks are a one way protection.


This theory is no longer valid... yes, masks protect others more than they protect you. However, wearing a mask (If worn properly) does reduce the risk for the one wearing it as well! In a nutshell: better than none!

 

Plus, that's for standard (simple) masks only. FFP 2 or above also protect the person wearing them. In fact, if they have an exhale valve, they only protect the wearer and not any others.

 

But agreed: best way is EVERYONE wear a mask 😷 

Edited by Miaminice

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2 hours ago, 4774Papa said:

The main benefit to having everyone wear a mask (according to reports that I have read) is that the COVID sick people wear them and that reduces the spread of the disease.  The individual masks exclusive of that do very little to protect the individual.

 

Once there is a vaccine, why would the vaccinated person need to wear a mask?

1) How do you distinguish between presymptomatic, asymptomatic and symptomatic?

2) Your 'do little to protect the individual" is miles off base. If both an infected individual and a healthy individual wear masks, incidence of transmission drops near 0.  If only the infected is wearing a mask, the incidence is much higher.  There is a lot of scientific discussion on this matter since the methods of transmission became clearer and clearer the last few months.

3) I think the decision whether or not to wear a mask post-vaccination (if there is one and if proven effective) would be a personal choice, especially if proof of vaccination is required before travel (but who know if that will happen).

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1 hour ago, ECCruise said:

1) How do you distinguish between presymptomatic, asymptomatic and symptomatic?

2) Your 'do little to protect the individual" is miles off base. If both an infected individual and a healthy individual wear masks, incidence of transmission drops near 0.  If only the infected is wearing a mask, the incidence is much higher.  There is a lot of scientific discussion on this matter since the methods of transmission became clearer and clearer the last few months.

3) I think the decision whether or not to wear a mask post-vaccination (if there is one and if proven effective) would be a personal choice, especially if proof of vaccination is required before travel (but who know if that will happen).

It is  very difficult to distinguish someone carrying COVID-19 from others.  However, if someone has take the vaccine, most scientists predict that will be 70% effective.  

I have read several studies that articulated that the MAIN reason to require everyone to wear a mask is because those with the disease would be wearing the mask.  

I suspect that post vaccination it would be a personal choice, I agree.

 

This is from an article 

At the beginning of the outbreak, public health officials thought that the virus was primarily transmitted by people touching contaminated objects or surfaces and then touching their face. Regular handwashing and refraining from touching your face were the main prescriptions (SN: 3/4/20). The CDC and the World Health Organization both at first said that healthy people didn’t need to wear masks.

But it has become clear that contact with virus-laden objects isn’t the major way that the coronavirus passes from person to person, says immunologist Robert Quigley.  He is senior vice president and regional medical director of International SOS, a company based in Trevose, Penn., that helps devise strategies for mitigating medical and security risks. Instead, researchers now think COVID-19 is spread mainly by someone inhaling the virus expelled by another person.

That explains the reasoning behind the CDC’s recommendation that everyone wear a mask in public: The covering may lessen the risk of mask wearers who don’t know they’re infected from passing the virus to someone else.

 

Also

https://www.lewrockwell.com/2020/04/dr-david-brownstein/we-must-wear-face-masks-show-me-the-science-behind-that/

 

 

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4 hours ago, 4774Papa said:

 

Once there is a vaccine, why would the vaccinated person need to wear a mask?

Vaccines are not 100% percent effective, that’s why.  Most vaccines like measles, mumps, rubella, chicken pox are >90% effective.  However, the flu vaccine is about 40-60% effective depending on the strain.  Then add in the variable of each person’s immune system is different.  Some respond better than others.  

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4 hours ago, Miaminice said:


This theory is no longer valid... yes, masks protect others more than they protect you. However, wearing a mask (If worn properly) does reduce the risk for the one wearing it as well! In a nutshell: better than none!

 

Plus, that's for standard (simple) masks only. FFP 2 or above also protect the person wearing them. In fact, if they have an exhale valve, they only protect the wearer and not any others.

 

But agreed: best way is EVERYONE wear a mask 😷 

KN95 masks are also widely available.  The local hospitals require visitors to either wear an N95 (hard to get) or a KN95.  

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13 minutes ago, NMTraveller said:

KN95 masks are also widely available.  The local hospitals require visitors to either wear an N95 (hard to get) or a KN95.  

Recent study from Clinical Research in Cardiology journal May 2020 regarding masks concluded: "Ventilation, cardiopulmonary exercise capacity and comfort are reduced by surgical masks and highly impaired by FFP2/N95 face masks in healthy individuals." 

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00392-020-01704-y

 

Also, a CDC research study from May 2020 analyzed 14 randomized controlled trials (which are the gold standard in research) and concluded that nonpharmaceutical measures in the community such as masks “did not support a substantial effect on transmission of laboratory-confirmed influenza” https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/5/19-0994_article  

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Posted (edited)
27 minutes ago, OceanCruise said:

Recent study from Clinical Research in Cardiology journal May 2020 regarding masks concluded: "Ventilation, cardiopulmonary exercise capacity and comfort are reduced by surgical masks and highly impaired by FFP2/N95 face masks in healthy individuals." 

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00392-020-01704-y

 

Also, a CDC research study from May 2020 analyzed 14 randomized controlled trials (which are the gold standard in research) and concluded that nonpharmaceutical measures in the community such as masks “did not support a substantial effect on transmission of laboratory-confirmed influenza” https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/5/19-0994_article  

There is no doubt that the most effective masks are also the most uncomfortable.  The most comfortable masks are scarves which are also the least effective.

Edited by NMTraveller

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4 hours ago, ECCruise said:

1) How do you distinguish between presymptomatic, asymptomatic and symptomatic?

2) Your 'do little to protect the individual" is miles off base. If both an infected individual and a healthy individual wear masks, incidence of transmission drops near 0.  If only the infected is wearing a mask, the incidence is much higher.  There is a lot of scientific discussion on this matter since the methods of transmission became clearer and clearer the last few months.

3) I think the decision whether or not to wear a mask post-vaccination (if there is one and if proven effective) would be a personal choice, especially if proof of vaccination is required before travel (but who know if that will happen).

However, keep in mind that vaccines are usually not 100% effective.  If the illness is still rampant, one should continue to wear a mask vaccinated or not.  Once there is proof on the efficacy  of the vaccine beyond just the phase 3 trial (protection percentage, duration of protection, etc) than the mask requirement can probably go away.  After all if enough people get vaccinated, and if it has a good efficacy and duration, then the amount of infection will decline fairly rapidly and masks can then be put away.  But not just because an individual has been vaccinated.

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32 minutes ago, OceanCruise said:

Recent study from Clinical Research in Cardiology journal May 2020 regarding masks concluded: "Ventilation, cardiopulmonary exercise capacity and comfort are reduced by surgical masks and highly impaired by FFP2/N95 face masks in healthy individuals." 

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00392-020-01704-y

 

Also, a CDC research study from May 2020 analyzed 14 randomized controlled trials (which are the gold standard in research) and concluded that nonpharmaceutical measures in the community such as masks “did not support a substantial effect on transmission of laboratory-confirmed influenza” https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/5/19-0994_article  

Yes but we are not dealing with influenza.  We are dealing with COVID which does more transmission by air and less by contact.

 

One of the mistakes that the health professionals made in the early days is of thinking that COVID transmitted like flu, large droplets and surface contact.  They now know better.  

 

Exercise capacity is not the same as impacted breathing during day to day life.  So wearing a mask it might take me 2 hours and 30 minutes to do my normal 30 mile bike ride instead of my normal 2 hours and 15 minutes.

 

Far more studies are indicating that mask do help and the impact on breathing is negligible.  One doctor put on 7 surgical masks all while monitoring his blood chemistry.  No Change in oxygen or CO2 levels.

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35 minutes ago, OceanCruise said:

Also, a CDC research study from May 2020 analyzed 14 randomized controlled trials (which are the gold standard in research) and concluded that nonpharmaceutical measures in the community such as masks “did not support a substantial effect on transmission of laboratory-confirmed influenza” https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/5/19-0994_article  

This was not a CDC research study, it was one conducted for the World Health Organization. From the report:

 

This study was conducted in preparation for the development of guidelines by the World Health Organization on the use of nonpharmaceutical interventions for pandemic influenza in nonmedical settings.

This study was supported by the World Health Organization. J.X. and M.W.F. were supported by the Collaborative Research Fund from the University Grants Committee of Hong Kong (project no. C7025-16G).

 

The report was first published on February 6, 2020, and was based on a review of previous studies conducted well before the arrival of COVID-19, some dating back to the 1940s. More importantly, it is based on the use of masks with influenza, not COVID-19 or any other virus.

 

Finally, the authors state with considerable prescience that masks might reduce the transmission of other infections. We now know that to be fact in the case of COVID-19.

 

We did not find evidence that surgical-type face masks are effective in reducing laboratory-confirmed influenza transmission, either when worn by infected persons (source control) or by persons in the general community to reduce their susceptibility (Figure 2). However, as with hand hygiene, face masks might be able to reduce the transmission of other infections and therefore have value in an influenza pandemic when healthcare resources are stretched. 

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8 hours ago, 4774Papa said:

The main benefit to having everyone wear a mask (according to reports that I have read) is that the COVID sick people wear them and that reduces the spread of the disease.  The individual masks exclusive of that do very little to protect the individual.

 

Once there is a vaccine, why would the vaccinated person need to wear a mask?

 

Yup masks only work one way, got it, LOL

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On 7/23/2020 at 5:50 PM, Pickels said:

Ok, we know that you will have to wear a face mask inside the ship (bummer), but what about the pool deck, relaxing on your chaise lounges?  And are they placing the chaise lounges six feet apart on the decks?

If I have to wear a mask, I won't go on a cruise.

 

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Posted (edited)
55 minutes ago, ready2cruzagain said:

If I have to wear a mask, I won't go on a cruise.

 

Perhaps it's time to for a new screen name. 😉

Edited by C-Dragons

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1 hour ago, ready2cruzagain said:

If I have to wear a mask, I won't go on a cruise.

 

 

We totally agree - I hope that the cruise-lines will make it VERY CLEAR what the guidelines on-board will be - BEFORE we actually commit to the cruise 

(So we can cancel) -

If we have to wear a mask - we won't cruise - even though we really, really, really miss cruising !! 

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While going out from the home, I will wear the mask, unless I am going for my speed walk around the neighborhood.  

Just don't plan on paying for a cruise where I have to wear a mask.

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I posted something like this a long time ago. I personally wouldn't go on a cruise that required mask wearing. Not because the mask is a problem for me (although they can get uncomfortable and I'm still trying to find a truly "good" reusable mask).

 

If mask wear is deemed necessary, I just view it as an indication that the cruise lines (and passengers, frankly) are trying to force a control measure that is pretty effective for reducing the risks of necessary and essential interactions into what is a purely leisure and optional experience. If we still really need the mask to reduce risk to an acceptable level, then, to me, we're not ready for that leisure activity. I see no reason to put myself in that situation (and yes, I have some risk factors), and certainly no reason to pay to put myself in that position.

 

Others clearly have different opinions, and I have no issues with that.

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Posted (edited)

I don't think I would give up cruising simply because of having to wear a mask. Do I like the idea of wearing one? No...I hate it. Same for staying at a resort or hotel, on a train, flying, etc. It is going to be the way it is - even with the development of a vaccine. I figure that some of my favorite time on a cruise is just being on my own balcony - NO need to wear a mask there! Shore excursions, in and around the ship, etc. is a different story. So giving up cruising because of not wanting to wear a mask probably also means giving up virtually every form of travel - unless having an RV - which actually is starting to have some appeal for me depending on how things go. I say this as one who is NOT and never has been into camping. 

 

All of this...reopening....and so forth, has to involve a gradual transition. Similar to how states (at least PA) went from red to yellow to green - gradually relaxing guidelines as it progressed (well, until things are now starting to get worse again unfortunately) - so likely the travel industry must also proceed in gradual steps. I can easily foresee the travel industry as a whole not allowing participation without masks for even a few years.

 

Who knows?  It may become a new normal. If it does, fine. Again, I don't like it one bit. The longer some of us HAVE been cruising, the more likely we are to resist some of the changes that are going to come along. The alternative, however, is to possibly give up most modes of travel completely - something that, at age 64, I'm nowhere near ready to do. It could be one of those "cut off your nose to spite the face" situations. 

Edited by OnTheJourney

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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, markeb said:

 

 

If mask wear is deemed necessary, I just view it as an indication that the cruise lines (and passengers, frankly) are trying to force a control measure that is pretty effective for reducing the risks of necessary and essential interactions into what is a purely leisure and optional experience.

 

I totally understand where you're coming from, but things like going to a movie theatre, show, or even a restaurant could all be considered optional experiences - and yet may also be ones that continue to require masking. When Broadway reopens, it won't be without masking you can bet on it. So it might come down to just HOW much are we willing to forego simply because of having to adhere to masking / distancing guidelines?? Sitting at home and hardly going anywhere for the past 5 months is starting to get just a tad old, for me anyway. 

Edited by OnTheJourney

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Presuming that masks will be required, it could be fun cross-checking CC posters discussing their latest or upcoming cruises to see how many of them had stated here that they wouldn't take a cruise if they had to wear a mask.

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13 hours ago, C-Dragons said:

Perhaps it's time to for a new screen name. 😉

 

Well had this screen name for 9 years, long before Covid-19.  🙄 Love cruising and already did 21 days this year before this happened and cancelled the rest of our cruises for this year.  Have on booked for Dec. 2021 and hoping life gets back to normal. 

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