CDC Requesting Comments From Public Regarding Cruise Ships Sailing Again

[Pcardad]

Then let's hope these millions of comments will be read AFTER the CDC get's their act together or the cruise industry is finished.

[howiefrommd]

12 hours ago, Pcardad said:

I think, at some future point if it goes on long enough and gets bad enough, people will stop fighting the virus and allow it to spread....sacrificing people to put the fight behind them and move on with their lives. Pretty dark but we, as people, don't do nice things when we are a mob.

The unfortunate thing is we will be sacrificing many of the people who are our Cruise Critic friends (especially on Regent) as we fall into the into the age demographic where this virus has devastating outcomes. 

[howiefrommd]

3 minutes ago, Pcardad said:

Then let's hope these millions of comments will be read AFTER the CDC get's their act together or the cruise industry is finished.

I do not think the viability of any industry is CDCs primary concern.  The upcoming reality is we have an election coming up which from my experience paralyzes the entire Government process.   

[Pcardad]

1 minute ago, howiefrommd said:

The unfortunate thing is we will be sacrificing many of the people who are our Cruise Critic friends (especially on Regent) as we fall into the into the age demographic where this virus has devastating outcomes. 

 

I agree.....but I also believe this is going to be the end result. Seeing millions of kids partying and millions of ignorant people refusing to believe this is real will only hasten this outcome. 

[Pcardad]

Just now, howiefrommd said:

I do not think the viability of any industry is CDCs primary concern.  The upcoming reality is we have an election coming up which from my experience paralyzes the entire Government process.   

 

I also think the cruise lines will end run around the CDC and start sailing from non-US ports. Americans will travel to the ships.

[howiefrommd]

Just now, Pcardad said:

 

I also think the cruise lines will end run around the CDC and start sailing from non-US ports. Americans will travel to the ships.

That certainly seems like a workable alternative (from a business perspective) the challenge for us that live in the US is getting to these foreign ports.  I think they would probably have to end up getting charter flights.

 

I wonder how financially survivable any of the main cruise lines are with limited US passengers 

[FeliciaLee]

14 hours ago, Pcardad said:

It won't take 2 years to sail again...people will sacrifice 10% of the population to save the economy first...people can be quite brutal in a pack.

I really hope you are correct. But then again, I thought that in March, and April, and May, and June, and July <sigh>

[rallydave]

1 minute ago, Pcardad said:

 

I also think the cruise lines will end run around the CDC and start sailing from non-US ports. Americans will travel to the ships.

Do you really think the non-US ports will have less stringent rules that have to be followed?  Since cruise ships sail the world over, have to believe that the rules/protocols for outside the US will not be that much less stringent than the CDC.

 

Pre COVID cruise ships had to follow the rules/protocols of all of the countries they sailed to and post COVID won't be much different.  The cruise lines need to write their rules/protocols to cover all of the ports they sail to as would be near impossible to write and follow separate rules that could change every day or so depending on ports.

 

And, sailing from non-US Ports would pretty much end Caribbean cruises and wreck more economic havoc on the current US cruise ports.  

[pappy1022]

I think that the cruise industry is smart to start the dialog with the CDC by coming up with their own recommendations. That may help speed up the process because I don’t think cruising is a priority for the CDC at this time. They have much bigger issues to deal with at the moment and if they are listening to the medical experts they probably believe that another wave is coming this fall/winter. I believe that a vaccine is the only way that a significant amount of cruises will be allowed to operate and that means well into 2021 before it’s readily available at best. I keep thinking about the surprise prediction by pcardad that the first Regent cruise would be in 2021 and I thought that to be fairly pessimistic especially for an optimist like him. Now I think he was probably right. 

[Pcardad]

11 minutes ago, rallydave said:

Do you really think the non-US ports will have less stringent rules that have to be followed?  Since cruise ships sail the world over, have to believe that the rules/protocols for outside the US will not be that much less stringent than the CDC.

 

Pre COVID cruise ships had to follow the rules/protocols of all of the countries they sailed to and post COVID won't be much different.  The cruise lines need to write their rules/protocols to cover all of the ports they sail to as would be near impossible to write and follow separate rules that could change every day or so depending on ports.

 

And, sailing from non-US Ports would pretty much end Caribbean cruises and wreck more economic havoc on the current US cruise ports.  

 

I think non-US ports can be divided into 2 groups. Countries who will allow access for cash/business and countries whose governments are not bureaucratic nightmares awash in red-tape like ours. I think it is possible that the cruise lines could find a number of ports in countries who would be very interested in the increased business. I think cruise lines will run cruises on modified itineraries ASAP in order to generate cash. A cruise to nowhere is better than no cruise at all.

 

I don't think the cruise lines care about the US Ports. I wouldn't if I were them...the US already made it pretty clear that they didn't care about the cruise lines. Business is business. If 90% of the population is willing to let 10% of the population die, why would something less matter?

 

Just my 2 cents...I am not particularly impressed with man's compassion for each other these days.

Edited July 25, 2020 by Pcardad

[Pcardad]

3 minutes ago, pappy1022 said:

I think that the cruise industry is smart to start the dialog with the CDC by coming up with their own recommendations. That may help speed up the process because I don’t think cruising is a priority for the CDC at this time. They have much bigger issues to deal with at the moment and if they are listening to the medical experts they probably believe that another wave is coming this fall/winter. I believe that a vaccine is the only way that a significant amount of cruises will be allowed to operate and that means well into 2021 before it’s readily available at best. I keep thinking about the surprise prediction by pcardad that the first Regent cruise would be in 2021 and I thought that to be fairly pessimistic especially for an optimist like him. Now I think he was probably right. 

 

I also think this is only the first wave...think about that.

 

You might be the only person who thinks I am an optimist. My job is to see all possible outcomes and plan for the worst. I am not a lot of fun at parties.

[mrlevin]

6 minutes ago, Pcardad said:

You might be the only person who thinks I am an optimist. My job is to see all possible outcomes and plan for the worst. I am not a lot of fun at parties.

 

Malthus was an optimist.  Who is John Galt?

[pappy1022]

7 minutes ago, Pcardad said:

 

I also think this is only the first wave...think about that.

 

You might be the only person who thinks I am an optimist. My job is to see all possible outcomes and plan for the worst. I am not a lot of fun at parties.

LOL. Well you guessed the furthest date out as to when cruising would start again and that surprised me given your pro cruise comments on other topics. 

[Pcardad]

Perhaps I am just realistic?

 

😃

 

 

[rallydave]

10 minutes ago, Pcardad said:

Perhaps I am just realistic?

 

😃

 

 

It's really great to have realism on this board compared to the many unrealistic posts from a very few.

Edited July 25, 2020 by rallydave

[howiefrommd]

The unfortunate part of the ten (10) percent statistic, is those over 70 (mostly with comorbidities,   HTN, DM, COPD and kidney disease) make up 80 percent of the current deaths.  That will really reduce the number of people on Regent.

 

As an aside, was just talking to my neighbor who is an ER doc, and she said the real problem is people who should come to the ER are not due to fear of COVID-19 exposure. She says she has had many deaths do to MIs and CVAs  in much younger people because they delayed care. 

Edited July 25, 2020 by howiefrommd
Typo

[Pcardad]

7 minutes ago, howiefrommd said:

The unfortunate part of the ten (10) percent statistic, is those over 70 (mostly with comorbidities,   HTN, DM, COPD and kidney disease) make up 80 percent of the current deaths.  That will really reduce the number of people on Regent.

 

As an aside, was just talking to my neighbor who is an ER doc, and she said the real problem is people who should come to the ER are not due to fear of COVID-19 exposure. She says she has had many deaths do to MIs and CVAs  in much younger people because they delayed care. 

 

This would reduce the CURRENT pool of Regent customers....but it is Regent's choice to market themselves to this demographic. The only factor they need is people who can afford to pay their rates. While it would not be an ideal outcome for Regent to lose a chunk of their current customers, they would adapt.

[greykitty]

Just in case people may actually wonder who John Galt is , he's a character in Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand. More symbolic than a rounded character.  

 

Other than that, I've seen references to John Galt at Tea Party rallies and during Ron Paul's 2008 presidential run.  Or as a 'pass code' used by some groups.  

 

Might provide some context about the philosophy here. 

Edited July 25, 2020 by greykitty

[flossie009]

21 hours ago, Travelcat2 said:

I can only imagine what a mess that will be - having passengers from mega-ships, huge ships, large ships, medium size and small ships trying to come with one set of protocols. 

 

Since it is an open consultation I assume that non-cruisers and non US citizens can also add their answers/comments/suggestions; further adding to the hotch-potch of ideas.

 

Is it just me or are many of the CDC questions & sub-questions very "loaded" with existing negative assumptions? .......... and why does it need 2 months for the consultation period?

 

If the authorities, cruise-lines & US ports have a target of re-starting cruises safely any time soon one would have thought they would just form a collaborative, joint working group ................. or is that too simple?

[greykitty]

Sixty day comment periods are by law in the United States.   The CDC's mission statement is below.  

 

CDC works 24/7 to protect America from health, safety and security threats, both foreign and in the U.S. Whether diseases start at home or abroad, are chronic or acute, curable or preventable, human error or deliberate attack, CDC fights disease and supports communities and citizens to do the same.

CDC increases the health security of our nation. As the nation’s health protection agency, CDC saves lives and protects people from health threats. To accomplish our mission, CDC conducts critical science and provides health information that protects our nation against expensive and dangerous health threats, and responds when these arise.

Edited July 25, 2020 by greykitty

[rallydave]

3 minutes ago, flossie009 said:

If the authorities, cruise-lines & US ports have a target of re-starting cruises safely any time soon one would have thought they would just form a collaborative, joint working group ................. or is that too simple?

Hi Susan,

 

Yes, far too simple.  Just look at the group NCLH and RCG recently formed and those people are going to take close to 2 months to come up with an initial set of requirements.  In this case we are dealing with the US Government and like most governments including the UK they have to dot all the i's and cross all the t's while following all of the bureaucratic things in all of the requirements.   Having worked as a Government Contractor for many years, time is not of the essence, following all of the laws requirements statutes, etc. has to be done or they just might be required to start all over from the beginning.

 

And the two months is only the time limit for the public submitting comments.  After that the CDC has t read and categorize all of the comments combining ones that are virtually the same and consider each and everyone for inclusion in the final requirements document  And only after that the cruise lines or CLIA  will need go go thru these new or revised documents and make sure their protocols and plans meet the requirements and submit after which the CDC will need to go thru all of the crusie line or CLIA protocols to verify compliance or send them back for more reviesions.

 

This will not be an easy or quick process.

[Travelcat2]

As has been noted "Jul 21, 2020 · Coronavirus (COVID-19) Health Protocols We are currently laser-focused on additional safety enhancements for our return to service. To develop our future boarding screening process and updated health protocols, we are collaborating with government health authorities, the Cruise Lines International Association, and our own team of medical experts.
 

Above quote from the RCG website.  RCG and RSSC are making sure that they get it right (and if RCG could come out with the amazing protocols for muster, they sure as her can do it for COVID-19).  They likely did not need until August 31st to do this but do not not want to miss dotting every "i" and crossing every "t".  They are working with the right people so what they submit should be approved with minimum changes.

 

flossie - everything that I've read about cruising from the CDC has a negative undertone (IMO).

[Wendy The Wanderer]

3 hours ago, FeliciaLee said:

I really hope you are correct. But then again, I thought that in March, and April, and May, and June, and July <sigh>

 

So you really hope that our society opens up and sacrifices 10% of its citizens?  Who are you?

 

3 hours ago, Pcardad said:

 

I also think this is only the first wave...think about that.

 

You might be the only person who thinks I am an optimist. My job is to see all possible outcomes and plan for the worst. I am not a lot of fun at parties.

 

I'm a pessimist too, although optimistic that we have ways of protecting parts of our vulnerable population (like me.)  Even in curve-flattened Canada, many of the new covid-positives, and hospital patients, are younger.  This, I think, is partly because we oldsters are protecting ourselves, and behaving ourselves--no restaurants for us, even when they do open--masks, hell yes!, and hand-washing, and stringent physical distancing.  This virus is affecting middle-aged and younger people too.

 

3 hours ago, mrlevin said:

 

Malthus was an optimist.  Who is John Galt?

 

Geez, Marc, must you?

 

This discussion again just shows that we have nothing cruise-worthy to talk about.

 

 

[mrlevin]

5 minutes ago, Wendy The Wanderer said:

This discussion again just shows that we have nothing cruise-worthy to talk about.

 

 

 

Maybe we can talk about the Canadian Finance Minister or WE?  😄 /sarc/

[greykitty]

Anyone know anyone on the Mein Schiff 2?  That might offer some new discussion view points... wonder how it feels to 1200, rather than the normal 2900, pax on board.    I do bet that lots of cruise execs from various lines are watching this one...

 

https://www.poandpo.com/companies/blue-cruise-ship-with-1200-guests-aboard-back-to-scenic-cruising/