Best summation of HAL: going forward

[FredT]

Sorry of this has been posted before, but this article sums up HAL going forward perfectly:  (In my humble opinion) 

 

 

https://thepointsguy.com/guide/holland-america-capacity-cuts/

[kazu]

There is already a thread about this with over 100 posts on it.

 

You might want to join the discussion there and request your thread be merged with it.

[Himself]

HAL might well deploy most of its remaining fleet to Alaska for 2021 or longer.

[iancal]

Don't know about that.  For the last three years HAL's late booking prices on Alaska cruises have been the absolute lowest.   We have seen prices as low as $279USD for insides on Zaandam.   Princess was not far behind.   These were July and Aug sailings....not early May or mid Sept.

 

That tells me that they either had too much capacity on this run or that other ships/cruise lines had higher demand.

[oaktreerb]

59 minutes ago, iancal said:

Don't know about that.  For the last three years HAL's late booking prices on Alaska cruises have been the absolute lowest.   We have seen prices as low as $279USD for insides on Zaandam.   Princess was not far behind.   These were July and Aug sailings....not early May or mid Sept.

 

That tells me that they either had too much capacity on this run or that other ships/cruise lines had higher demand.

I am amazed that people will sail in an inside room.  If HAl can get people on a ship at rock bottom prices I would hope that these adventurers leave the gratuities in place and spend their money on booze and excursions.  Even if I were a single I would need some natural light (obstructed on the lower promenade minimum).

 

 I would rather sail on a ship with a minimum of inside rooms.  If people have a balcony they are less likely to be playing cards in the Lido or sitting at a corridor window sleeping.  

[TiogaCruiser]

8 minutes ago, oaktreerb said:

I am amazed that people will sail in an inside room.  If HAl can get people on a ship at rock bottom prices I would hope that these adventurers leave the gratuities in place and spend their money on booze and excursions.  Even if I were a single I would need some natural light (obstructed on the lower promenade minimum).

 

 I would rather sail on a ship with a minimum of inside rooms.  If people have a balcony they are less likely to be playing cards in the Lido or sitting at a corridor window sleeping.  

Well that’s quite a generalization. And more than a tad bit rude.

 

We always book either an inside or OV. We wouldn’t even think of removing or decreasing gratuities, and have added more on all but 1 occasion (when our steward was mostly MIA and we saw him about 3 times the entire week). We spend very little time in our cabin so it’s for sleeping and changing. We’re deck rats. 
 

So you enjoy your balcony and we’ll enjoy or cabin and the rest of the ship and the destinations. 
 

Smooth sailing!

[Himself]

17 minutes ago, oaktreerb said:

I am amazed that people will sail in an inside room.  If HAl can get people on a ship at rock bottom prices I would hope that these adventurers leave the gratuities in place and spend their money on booze and excursions.  Even if I were a single I would need some natural light (obstructed on the lower promenade minimum).

 

 I would rather sail on a ship with a minimum of inside rooms.  If people have a balcony they are less likely to be playing cards in the Lido or sitting at a corridor window sleeping.  

I agree

[cruisemom42]

58 minutes ago, oaktreerb said:

I am amazed that people will sail in an inside room.  If HAl can get people on a ship at rock bottom prices I would hope that these adventurers leave the gratuities in place and spend their money on booze and excursions.  Even if I were a single I would need some natural light (obstructed on the lower promenade minimum).

 

 I would rather sail on a ship with a minimum of inside rooms.  If people have a balcony they are less likely to be playing cards in the Lido or sitting at a corridor window sleeping.  

 

Nice of you to make my travel choices for me. 

 

And what exactly do you mean by "even if I were a single (as if we were some lowly species?), I would need some natural light..."  (No, we actually mutate into zombie-like beings when exposed to natural light.). 

 

Silly me -- I thought there were public areas of the ship for a reason -- so that people could use them. I would never camp out in the Lido, but would certainly sit and read in a chair on the promenade deck or in a quiet indoor area for a good bit of time on a sea day. 

 

 

[kazu]

1 hour ago, oaktreerb said:

I am amazed that people will sail in an inside room.  If HAl can get people on a ship at rock bottom prices I would hope that these adventurers leave the gratuities in place and spend their money on booze and excursions.  Even if I were a single I would need some natural light (obstructed on the lower promenade minimum).

 

I know lots of people that sail in inside cabins.  

Appreciate what you need (natural light) but everyone is not the same.  Different strokes for different folks. 😉.  The single supplement is a BIG hit and I totally understand the inside cabin choice.  There are some amazingly nice ones.

 

1 hour ago, oaktreerb said:

 

 I would rather sail on a ship with a minimum of inside rooms.  If people have a balcony they are less likely to be playing cards in the Lido or sitting at a corridor window sleeping.  

 

I have to say I disagree on this one.  I’ve seen lots of people playing cards in the Lido, relaxing in the Crow’s Nest, Promenade deck and Lido and I can assure you that most of them were not in inside cabins.

 

If you really want to play cards or Mahh Jong with others, there really isn’t enough room in a verandah cabin.  All of our card games and Mah Jong on roll calls were always arranged in public areas. - much nicer and airier.  And I can assure that most were NOT in inside cabins.  

[hallpau]

1 hour ago, Himself said:

I agree

Your response surprises me....we're perfectly fine with an inside cabin.  I've loved the occasional time that we've had a verandah stateroom but not enough to reduce the number of cruises we can take.

Edited July 26, 2020 by hallpau

[oaktreerb]

4 hours ago, TiogaCruiser said:

 

 

We always book either an inside or OV. We wouldn’t even think of removing or decreasing gratuities, and have added more on all but 1 occasion (when our steward was mostly MIA and we saw him about 3 times the entire week). We spend very little time in our cabin so it’s for sleeping and changing. We’re deck rats. 

 

Smooth sailing!

Just me.  I need the light.  My first cruise was obstructed, then OV, then lanai, balcony, and finally suite.  It’s great that cruising has so many options.  I would have a panic attack in an inside cabin.  

 

[oaktreerb]

3 hours ago, kazu said:

 

I know lots of people that sail in inside cabins.  

Appreciate what you need (natural light) but everyone is not the same.  Different strokes for different folks. 😉.  The single supplement is a BIG hit and I totally understand the inside cabin choice.  There are some amazingly nice ones.

 

 

I have to say I disagree on this one.  I’ve seen lots of people playing cards in the Lido, relaxing in the Crow’s Nest, Promenade deck and Lido and I can assure you that most of them were not in inside cabins.

 

 

Many times we have wandered around looking for lunch seating in the Lido with tables occupied by card players.  We have learned to eat lunch in the dining room or at Lido off hours.  This would be high season Alaska cruises which are pretty fully booked and provide lots of scenic viewing.

[oaktreerb]

3 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

 

 

And what exactly do you mean by "even if I were a single (as if we were some lowly species?), I would need some natural light..."  (No, we actually mutate into zombie-like beings when exposed to natural light.). 

 

 

I enjoy cruising and have thought about cruising alone.  I’ve met lots of delightful people who are cruising single even when they may have a partner at home.  I know they pay double fares for the most part.  I also know that there were some very nice insides on the ships that were just sold.  My conclusion has been that I would need an obstructed room on the lower promenade.   

[DFD1]

Stirred up a hornet's nest with that one... and rightly so.

[voyageur9]

HAL going forward: To survive it needs to dump not just its smaller ships but its older, sicker clientele. Unless (and that may be never) a 95% vaccine (like measles) not a 50% vaccine (like flu) exists and potential passengers can be forced to prove they have been vaccinated, then HAL's longstanding focus on an older and thus much more vulnerable demographic is corporate idiocy.

Unlike gastro, a Corona outbreak that erupts in a ship full of old and/or especially vulnerable passengers rife with pre-existing conditions -- a plague ship -- could wreck the company.

So the next incarnation of HAL (there have been several) will have to appeal to a less vulnerable demographic. CCL will abandon high-risk, low reward passengers, no matter how loyal.

Edited July 27, 2020 by voyageur9
typos

[Lady Arwen]

10 minutes ago, voyageur9 said:

HAL going forward: To survive it needs to dump not just its smaller ships but its older, sicker clientele. Unless (and that may be never) a 95% vaccine (like measles) not a 50% vaccine (like flu) exists and potential passengers can be forced to prove they have been vaccinated, then HAL's longstanding focus on an older and thus much more vulnerable demographic is corporate idiocy.

Unlike gastro, a Corona outbreak that erupts in a ship full of old and/or especially vulnerable passengers rife with pre-existing conditions -- a plague ship -- could wreck the company.

So the next incarnation of HAL (there have been several) will have to appeal to a less vulnerable demographic. CCL will abandon high-risk, low reward passengers, no matter how loyal.

I can’t even express how offensive this post is to older people.  

[Sir PMP]

3 hours ago, voyageur9 said:

HAL going forward: To survive it needs to dump not just its smaller ships but its older, sicker clientele. Unless (and that may be never) a 95% vaccine (like measles) not a 50% vaccine (like flu) exists and potential passengers can be forced to prove they have been vaccinated, then HAL's longstanding focus on an older and thus much more vulnerable demographic is corporate idiocy.

Unlike gastro, a Corona outbreak that erupts in a ship full of old and/or especially vulnerable passengers rife with pre-existing conditions -- a plague ship -- could wreck the company.

So the next incarnation of HAL (there have been several) will have to appeal to a less vulnerable demographic. CCL will abandon high-risk, low reward passengers, no matter how loyal.

And that's a comment from a 'voyageur' , I assume you're not a doctor, because that remark is disgusting ..

 

[DFD1]

This has become the Offensive Post thread....too bad.

[voyageur9]

Lady Arwen and Sir PMP

I truly sorry if I upset you or caused offense. My sincere apologies to you and others if they too were offended. For what its worth,  I too am part of the vulnerable cohort that faces a much higher risk of death or serious injury from Covid-19. So my post wasn't aimed at others. Just the opposite. It was a stark  assessment (about which you may disagree) about the dire circumstances facing HAL because such a high percentage of its previous clientele are those most vulnerable to Covid-19. In the past that wasn't a high-risk corporate strategy.  Quite the opposite. It allowed CCL to position various brands to appeal to different segments of the cruise market. HAL's was the brand which appealed, for various reasons, to an older demographic. In my opinion, that positioning is now high-risk, at least until the disease is extinguished or a very high percentage vaccine is available. That assessment may be very unpleasant to countenance. But sugar-coating a truth doesn't help.

[ski ww]

10 hours ago, voyageur9 said:

HAL going forward: To survive it needs to dump not just its smaller ships but its older, sicker clientele. Unless (and that may be never) a 95% vaccine (like measles) not a 50% vaccine (like flu) exists and potential passengers can be forced to prove they have been vaccinated, then HAL's longstanding focus on an older and thus much more vulnerable demographic is corporate idiocy.

Unlike gastro, a Corona outbreak that erupts in a ship full of old and/or especially vulnerable passengers rife with pre-existing conditions -- a plague ship -- could wreck the company.

So the next incarnation of HAL (there have been several) will have to appeal to a less vulnerable demographic. CCL will abandon high-risk, low reward passengers, no matter how loyal.

Do you have grand parents? do you spent any time with them? have you shared this little gem of wisdom with them? I suggest you cruise on the party boats and don't ever get old.

[KirkNC]

18 hours ago, oaktreerb said:

I am amazed that people will sail in an inside room.  If HAl can get people on a ship at rock bottom prices I would hope that these adventurers leave the gratuities in place and spend their money on booze and excursions.  Even if I were a single I would need some natural light (obstructed on the lower promenade minimum).

 

 I would rather sail on a ship with a minimum of inside rooms.  If people have a balcony they are less likely to be playing cards in the Lido or sitting at a corridor window sleeping.  

That’s a hell of a generalization.  We usually sail in insides and not only leave the auto gratuity in place but usually leave a generous additional gratuity, not that it’s any of your business.  You are entitled to you opinion but not your judgement.  Ignore button activated. 

[bouhunter]

2 hours ago, voyageur9 said:

Lady Arwen and Sir PMP

I truly sorry if I upset you or caused offense. My sincere apologies to you and others if they too were offended. For what its worth,  I too am part of the vulnerable cohort that faces a much higher risk of death or serious injury from Covid-19. So my post wasn't aimed at others. Just the opposite. It was a stark  assessment (about which you may disagree) about the dire circumstances facing HAL because such a high percentage of its previous clientele are those most vulnerable to Covid-19. In the past that wasn't a high-risk corporate strategy.  Quite the opposite. It allowed CCL to position various brands to appeal to different segments of the cruise market. HAL's was the brand which appealed, for various reasons, to an older demographic. In my opinion, that positioning is now high-risk, at least until the disease is extinguished or a very high percentage vaccine is available. That assessment may be very unpleasant to countenance. But sugar-coating a truth doesn't help.

Well put. Obviously there are elderly posters who are struggling to admit their cruising days are over and don't want to hear about it.  It isn't just HAL though, longer cruises on other lines aren't much different.  We were on a B2B RCCL cruise (10 & 11 nights) last winter.  I honestly believe 70%+ were in their 70's and 80's.  The ship could have been named "Assisted Living of the Seas".  The cruise lines have been thrilled to take the money from this elderly clientele for years, but now they have to deal with the fact a large portion of their clientele isn't suited for their product for quite some time.  Nursing homes and other elderly facilities filled with at risk people are a disaster on land, how is a ship supposed to deal with that?

Edited July 27, 2020 by bouhunter

[RuthC]

3 hours ago, voyageur9 said:

I truly sorry if I upset you or caused offense. My sincere apologies to you and others if they too were offended.

If? IF??? 

A real apology would not use the word "if". It would say "...THAT I upset or caused offense." See the difference? 
It's not always what someone says, it's how they say it that matters. What you said WAS offensive. No 'if' about it. 

[Lady Arwen]

1 hour ago, bouhunter said:

Well put. Obviously there are elderly posters who are struggling to admit their cruising days are over and don't want to hear about it.  It isn't just HAL though, longer cruises on other lines aren't much different.  We were on a B2B RCCL cruise (10 & 11 nights) last winter.  I honestly believe 70%+ were in their 70's and 80's.  The ship could have been named "Assisted Living of the Seas".  The cruise lines have been thrilled to take the money from this elderly clientele for years, but now they have to deal with the fact a large portion of their clientele isn't suited for their product for quite some time.  Nursing homes and other elderly facilities filled with at risk people are a disaster on land, how is a ship supposed to deal with that?

The offensive people seem to be coming out of the woodwork lately.  Unfortunately, it’s the irresponsible younger people who are spreading this virus.  I think they should be banned from cruising.  The older generation tend to follow all the prescribed safety protocols and the younger ones have beach parties.  Discrimination can be applied to both sides of the coin.

[bouhunter]

1 hour ago, RuthC said:

If? IF??? 

A real apology would not use the word "if". It would say "...THAT I upset or caused offense." See the difference? 
It's not always what someone says, it's how they say it that matters. What you said WAS offensive. No 'if' about it. 

Wow.  It's just an internet message board.  If posts here get you that upset it might be time for a break.

 

And actually the posts you're referencing weren't offensive in any way.  The poster was just stating facts about passenger demographics and the cruise industry.  There were no personal attacks or insults whatsoever.