New Ships = New Itineraries?

[comcox]

Does anyone have a guess as to whether Fred Olsen will create new itineraries for the two new ships or whether they will just be used to replace two existing ships?  I'm so hoping for some new itineraries as I've done a number of FO's cruises and am looking forward to new adventures.

[Britboys]

I think it is difficult to know about the itineraries until Fred has confirmed when/if two of the current fleet are being retired as expected. If Boudicca and Black Watch are indeed retired fairly quickly, then I would expect the two new ships to largely just take on their itineraries. Boudicca is however due to sail two cruises through the Kiel Canal next year, which the two new ships are too large to transit.

[tring]

3 hours ago, comcox said:

Does anyone have a guess as to whether Fred Olsen will create new itineraries for the two new ships or whether they will just be used to replace two existing ships?  I'm so hoping for some new itineraries as I've done a number of FO's cruises and am looking forward to new adventures.

 

I am more interested in facts rather that complete speculation, but I am sure we all have our hopes.  Certainly the older ships were going to be restricted in visiting some environmentally vulnerable locations, such as some Arctic and Norwiegian locations, due to the requirements for "greener"credentials.  Hence places which Fred has been visiting may have been removed from future itineraries published in the future.  I have no knowledge about how the new ships will fit in with those requirements - I suspect not the best, but probably better than the current ones.  Perhaps someone with more knowledge of emissions and requirements could enlighten us?

 

I am also thinking about his regional departures and if they new ships can turnaround at the same places.  Information on another thread suggests Rosyth would be a vulnerable turnaround base, due to the need to sail under low bridge(s).  I am thinking they may get there at present, passing under them at a very low tide, but turnarounds are another matter as there is always the risk of delays which would mean sailing in different tidal conditions to those planned.  I have a particular interest in our local port of Liverpool.  The current terminal is not the best, though there is limited on turnaround facilities at present, though docking is no problem for big ships.  Magellan (1,452 passengers) has been turning around here regularly though, so I am optimistic as cruises from Liverpool sell well (need to keep my fingers crossed though).  Yes, there is a new terminal planned for next year using the same landing stage, but the only work being done at present is investigation of the bedrock, so with all our past promises, I will not be holding my breath to see it in the current climate.

 

The Bonheur statement did mention two ships going.  When is the big question and Fred is being very coy about that, though I wonder if that decision is something he would like to delay making, depending upon any recovery of the cruise industry.  Ships cost a bit to keep ticking over and cruise passengers will be difficult to get in the near future, but an announcement re getting rid could loose bookings currently on his books.  Hence running the same itineraries with some necessary changes (such as Kiel Canal mentioned above) is a possibility if the older ship's go soon.  Itineraries may well be changed anyway in the short term as we all realise.  I am not convinced a change of ship is something Fred can insist people accept on a booking though, so some bookings could still be lost.  Perhaps a sweetener would be of use there - an upgrade please Fred if you are reading this 🙂

 

Barbara 

[ScottishMaid]

The Amsterdam visited Antarctica earlier this year and Alaska last summer. Both places require light fuel. She also has azipods so can turn more easily in tight spots. The Rotterdam has been in Norway.


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[tring]

2 hours ago, ScottishMaid said:

The Amsterdam visited Antarctica earlier this year and Alaska last summer. Both places require light fuel. She also has azipods so can turn more easily in tight spots. The Rotterdam has been in Norway.


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Thanks, that is great news.  The azipods will presumably be a great boon for smaller ports.

 

Fred has done a lot of Norway, Spitsbergen, Greenland and been getting away with it so far, though certain ports which he visited in Spitsbergen and Greenland five years or so ago have disappeared from itineraries more recently.  Stricter controls are planned though, so Fred will need a change of ships to just keep himself doing current itineraries.  Speaking to a junior deck officer on (?Boudicca), there is an alternative fuel they switch to going in/out of certain ports, I think it was diesel c.f. the normal heavy oil, but we are not sure now. 

 

Regards potential switch of ship(s) by Fred, we realise that his T&C's say he can do that, but the crunch is that T&C's cannot overrule statutory rights.  Paraphrased, the Package Travel Regs. 2018 say that he cannot unilaterally change the terms of a contract unless the contract allows such changes (which T&C's do), the change is insignificant and the change is notified by a durable medium (email or writing basically).  So he could only make an insignificant change and DH with his consumer law background is of the opinion the ship change we are talking about would not be insignificant.  A change to an identical ship may not be insignificant though as long as cabin location is much the same.  It also depends on what is significant to the passenger (e.g. Kiel may be insignificant for some people, but not others) so they do not have to agree to the change.  I do  not want to run a revolt here and certainly hope that any changes Fred does effect will go down fairly smoothly as he is having a tough time already and I, (like most), feel the two new ships are a great move forward.  We have a cruise booked for next July and would be happy to change to one of the new ships as long as the itinerary is not butchered.  Still would not mind an upgrade though and he should have plenty of space to allow for that on the new ships.  I do not personally see Fred making changes to the schedules of the ships he retains, as that would loose a lot more bookings that are currently in place. 

 

I messaged Fred to ask if the new ships would be able to get into Bordeaux (which is on our itinerary) and received a reply earlier to say they are currently planning the itineraries for the new ships including the following comment:- "Please be assured that we are, as always, planning itineraries with the guest experience in mind, so will be looking to visit - and get closer to - the very best destinations that we can"  Not that it tells us anything more than we already know.  I have asked if they can give any timescale for publishing the new itineraries (fairly soon or as long as 6 months).  I doubt they will be drawn on that either, just a waiting game, which seems to have become the way of the world at present.

Edited July 27, 2020 by tring

[ScottishMaid]

The Amsterdam and Rotterdam are accustomed to switching between the light expensive fuel if required, as in Alaska, and the cheap thick crude when out in the ocean.
No Holland America ships could sail into Bordeaux after they sold the Prinsendam, about 30,000 tonnes. A and R are about 64000.
Their draft is about 23 feet as I remember.



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[comcox]

I am sorry to hear the Black Watch is on the retirement list as that's my favorite ship.

 

I would expect one of the two bigger HAL ships would be used for RTW cruises as they would allow for more passengers and I think those cruises focus less on getting in close as do the current European cruises that do places such as Rouen, Bordeaux, and Seville.

[tring]

3 hours ago, comcox said:

I am sorry to hear the Black Watch is on the retirement list as that's my favorite ship.

 

I would expect one of the two bigger HAL ships would be used for RTW cruises as they would allow for more passengers and I think those cruises focus less on getting in close as do the current European cruises that do places such as Rouen, Bordeaux, and Seville.

 

Neither Black Watch nor Boudicca have been named by Fred or Bonheur.  We have all just jumped to that assumption as Bonhuer mentioned two ships going and they are a fair bit older than the others.  Fred avoiding any questions, so chances are we will only find out when the new itineraries are published, but suspect if a date is given someone will mention here.

[tring]

16 hours ago, ScottishMaid said:

The Amsterdam and Rotterdam are accustomed to switching between the light expensive fuel if required, as in Alaska, and the cheap thick crude when out in the ocean.
No Holland America ships could sail into Bordeaux after they sold the Prinsendam, about 30,000 tonnes. A and R are about 64000.
Their draft is about 23 feet as I remember.



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Thanks a lot for that information.  I noticed Balmoral is also Scheduled to go there, but a quick search told me that is shorter and has a shallower draught as well as only being about 43,000ton.  I see P&O have Bordeaux on their itineraries for their mid sized ships, but looking closer they actually visit Bordeaux (from Le Verdon - which looks about 60 miles away and not much locally either). 

[rkacruiser]

On 7/27/2020 at 11:28 AM, ScottishMaid said:

She also has azipods so can turn more easily in tight spots. 

 

I have sailed on Amsterdam during one and one-fourth world cruises.  I can attest that Amsterdam has the ability to dock in very tight places.  One Asian port where we docked, the bow was very close to the stern of the freighter ahead of us and our stern were short meters away from the breakwater behind us.

[rkacruiser]

Does anyone think that Fred. Olsen might consider an expansion of their cruise service to sail from North American ports?  If not the United States, but maybe from Canada?  

[comcox]

12 hours ago, rkacruiser said:

Does anyone think that Fred. Olsen might consider an expansion of their cruise service to sail from North American ports?  If not the United States, but maybe from Canada?  

They have announced that they will base the Braemar in Havanna for Caribbean cruises.  Not good for Americans unless we get a new President who opens Cuba travel again.

[DM6045]

Cant see why they would TBH they have a good customer base this side of the Atlantic and with us loosing CMV they will probably be getting alot more if they price the new ships right. Also I’ve come across a few Americans on Fred and with the odd exception they have all said they found the experience to be a bit to staid and quiet for their tastes, not being judgemental just basing it on my experience of meeting people onboard. And Having travelled on HAL a couple of times (Amsterdam, Rotterdam and Veendam) HAL is positively active and lively in comparison.

[Britboys]

12 hours ago, comcox said:

They have announced that they will base the Braemar in Havanna for Caribbean cruises.  Not good for Americans unless we get a new President who opens Cuba travel again.

Yes and no. She is sailing out of Havana for only 3 cruises plus one cruise that starts in Barbados and ends in Havana and then one doing the reverse. She is only in the Caribbean from 19th December '21 to 21st March '22. I do feel for US citizens on this - Havana is wonderful.

[comcox]

20 hours ago, DM6045 said:

Cant see why they would TBH they have a good customer base this side of the Atlantic and with us loosing CMV they will probably be getting alot more if they price the new ships right. Also I’ve come across a few Americans on Fred and with the odd exception they have all said they found the experience to be a bit to staid and quiet for their tastes, not being judgemental just basing it on my experience of meeting people onboard. And Having travelled on HAL a couple of times (Amsterdam, Rotterdam and Veendam) HAL is positively active and lively in comparison.

Personally I love good old staid FO, but then perhaps that's because I was raised by a British mother and travel over there at least once a year.

[Cruising Nomads]

Fred tried two winter seasons out of Miami when Balmoral first came into service. It was a total disaster for them. Passengers were not happy with the queues at the airport for immigration which lasted hours at certain times.  They did not like the fact of having to collect their own luggage and then take it to a coach for transfer to the ship. After the cruise passengers had to disembark early and quite often dropped off at the Bayside Market place with a voucher for food to await airport pickups for later flights.  Due to been based in American waters the entertainment was mainly American themed and this did not go down well with a lot of Freds regular travellers.

[London-Calling]

On 7/28/2020 at 2:03 PM, tring said:

 

Neither Black Watch nor Boudicca have been named by Fred or Bonheur.

 

Olsen said two ship would be going BEFORE CMV collapsed. Maybe they are reconsidering.

 

CMV had many regular fans at various UK reginal ports. Maybe Olsen will want to win them over to their product?

 

Maybe Olsen can use the CMV itineraries/berths, which must all be going spare at the moment?

 

Lot's of "Maybes" 😉

[Britboys]

2 hours ago, London-Calling said:

 

Olsen said two ship would be going BEFORE CMV collapsed. Maybe they are reconsidering.

 

CMV had many regular fans at various UK reginal ports. Maybe Olsen will want to win them over to their product?

 

Maybe Olsen can use the CMV itineraries/berths, which must all be going spare at the moment?

 

Lot's of "Maybes" 😉

It would be great if you are right but Fred would need to lower launch prices to interest CMV cruisers. The ones advertised for 2022 so far are nearer Saga Cruise prices than CMV!

[DM6045]

2 hours ago, London-Calling said:

 

Olsen said two ship would be going BEFORE CMV collapsed. Maybe they are reconsidering.

 

CMV had many regular fans at various UK reginal ports. Maybe Olsen will want to win them over to their product?

 

Maybe Olsen can use the CMV itineraries/berths, which must all be going spare at the moment?

 

Lot's of "Maybes" 😉

 

 

10 minutes ago, Britboys said:

It would be great if you are right but Fred would need to lower launch prices to interest CMV cruisers. The ones advertised for 2022 so far are nearer Saga Cruise prices than CMV!

Funny i was having a conversation about this just the other day... IF and its a big If they were to move BW and BD onto cmv’s more successful itineraries I think they could be onto a winner having travelled both CMV and Fred for years the people who will book again are the ones who took CMVs longer more ‘exotic’ itineraries. IE. Their 42 day Amazon trip that CMV have done every year from the beggining or we were booked onto a 25 night canaries and cape verde trip this november these are trips nobody else does. However to attract them they would have to drop their prices abit  on these ships not necessarily to CMV levels but not their current £150-250 per night average. This would also help them win back alot of their ‘defectors’ like us who switched as they felt Fred was becoming too expensive and CMV provided much better value for money... I think they could make a success of it after all if it wasnt for COVID CmV would still be going strong after all they were 87% fully booked for next year before COVID struck. And CMV people were loyal on this years Amazon trip 94% had travelled with CMV at least twice before and just over 60% of those had done the same Amazon trip previously. But as i say pricing would be a big factor but dropping fares can be successful Our Amazon trip was £2300 pp for 42 nights or £55 pn (booked 8 months in advance) and it was nearly fully booked compare this to BWs cancelled 32 night Caribbean trip this November when I looked at that in Feb it was £3600pp or £112 pppn  also plenty of availability left for IMHO not much of a better product (dont shoot me!) and Freds newer prices are frankly eyewatering So maybe split the old girls off onto a budget arm of Fred? We can dream but there is certainly a big gap that needs filling now. Also Tilbury will be great full for the custom as they’ve just refurbed the terminal.

 

sorry long winded and not very well worded post over! 🤐

[London-Calling]

7 minutes ago, DM6045 said:

 

 

...also plenty of availability left for IMHO not much of a better product (dont shoot me!) and Freds newer prices are frankly eyewatering So maybe split the old girls off onto a budget arm of Fred? We can dream but there is certainly a big gap that needs filling now.🤐

 

Yes, It makes good business sense for somebody to take up the CMV slack. Olsen's style and fleet are a similar product, just MORE expensive for a similar quality in my opinion too. All they need to offer the CMV ports and drop their prices!😉

 

Marella might be interested too. Ships like Thomson  Spirit and Celebration (now both gone) would have appealed to CMV fans.

 

I bet Olsen reconsiders losing two ships!

[DM6045]

24 minutes ago, London-Calling said:

 

Yes, It makes good business sense for somebody to take up the CMV slack. Olsen's style and fleet are a similar product, just MORE expensive for a similar quality in my opinion too. All they need to offer the CMV ports and drop their prices!😉

 

Marella might be interested too. Ships like Thomson  Spirit and Celebration (now both gone) would have appealed to CMV fans.

 

I bet Olsen reconsiders losing two ships!

 I completely agree and as you could say CMV were Freds Biggest Competition (although now it looks like their matching Saga prices) it would make sense for them to take up the slack.
Someone needs to fill the gap i’m relying on it !
And yes so sad to see Spirit and  Celebration gone.
What i loved about CMV was they never pretended to be something that they weren’t as the MD told me on the anniversary on Columbus last year we want to show people the world who couldn’t see it otherwise and in my opinion thats what they did should have had 67 nights with them this year and i couldn’t afford that anywhere else!

Friendliest passengers as well in my experience (being somewhat younger than most) me and my partner have had some rude and snotty remarks on Fred and P&O in the past. Most often Freds Passengers think i’m crew so I tell them i’m the fitness instructor (im a 20 something slightly overweight guy with purple hair, a very obvious limp and a walking stick) 😆

[London-Calling]

1 hour ago, DM6045 said:

 

Friendliest passengers as well in my experience (being somewhat younger than most) me and my partner have had some rude and snotty remarks on Fred and P&O in the past. Most often Freds Passengers think i’m crew so I tell them i’m the fitness instructor (im a 20 something slightly overweight guy with purple hair, a very obvious limp and a walking stick) 😆

 

I'm mature now, but when I took my first Olsen cruise I was in my late 30's but still looked young-ish.

 

The lady at the check-in said to my wife and I, "are we crew"

 

Many of the passengers, at the time, were twice our age, although I do not have a problem with this. many of them had more get up and go than many youngsters.

 

I always enjoyed the CMV crowd.

 

have you ever tried Thomson cruises. They were similar to CMV.

[DM6045]

39 minutes ago, London-Calling said:

 

I'm mature now, but when I took my first Olsen cruise I was in my late 30's but still looked young-ish.

 

The lady at the check-in said to my wife and I, "are we crew"

 

Many of the passengers, at the time, were twice our age, although I do not have a problem with this. many of them had more get up and go than many youngsters.

 

I always enjoyed the CMV crowd.

 

have you ever tried Thomson cruises. They were similar to CMV.

Yes have done thomson but alas no good for me now as they’re not doing any more ex uk and i cant fly also apart from the dream they’re all abit big for my tastes now (I considered the Columbus as too big) and unfortunately apart from transatlantics (again have to fly) they have never done anything in the 3 weeks plus duration and thats my preference. Still sit tight and wait for further announcements from Fred. All my favourites have gone...Swan Hellenic.... Voyages of discovery now CMV. Maybe its me 🤣

[London-Calling]

It's funny some people complained about Thomson's little old ships, but now I miss them.  A lot of people said that they needed to modernize their fleet, which they are, but this changes the product into something else. As you say they have abandoned the UK ports.

 

However maybe they will be back to pick up some of the old CMV trade.

 

Maybe the CMV CEO will buy back/charter a couple of CMV ships and start over again!😊

[Britboys]

4 hours ago, London-Calling said:

 

Yes, It makes good business sense for somebody to take up the CMV slack. Olsen's style and fleet are a similar product, just MORE expensive for a similar quality in my opinion too. All they need to offer the CMV ports and drop their prices!😉

 

Marella might be interested too. Ships like Thomson  Spirit and Celebration (now both gone) would have appealed to CMV fans.

 

I bet Olsen reconsiders losing two ships!

Yes, but not sure CMV regulars would like the Marella style. I certainly didn't.