Can we ever truly trust the cruise lines?

[K32682]

Hurtigruten Lines has had a COVID-19 outbreak on one of its arctic cruises.  Their official line seems a bit suspect. 

https://www.maritime-executive.com/a...-norway-cruise
 

Quote:

“There was no reason to suspect COVID-19 when the ship docked in Tromsø based on the symptoms the four of the crew had,” said Hurtigruten communications manager Rune Thomas Ege in a prepared statement the company issued. “

 

No reason to suspect COVID-19? They have sick crew. There's a global pandemic underway and if they had "no reason to suspect" why did Hurtigruten isolate the 4 crew members showing symptoms and only tested AFTER they docked and disembarked passengers?

 

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/one-first-cruise-ships-resume-22452931

 

A statement from Hurtigruten said: "The four crew members were isolated several days ago because of other disease symptoms, with no symptoms of Covid-19. They were still routinely tested when the ship docked in Tromso Friday morning.

 

Now 160 crew are quarantined on the ship and the passengers are circulating in public, supposedly in quarantine if know they were exposed but if not going about their usual business with the possibility they are unknowingly infecting other.   

[cbr663]

It appears now that 33 crew members have tested positive. https://thebarentsobserver.com/en/travel/2020/07/hurtigruten-cancels-svalbard-cruise-crew-members-have-been-diagnosed-covid-19

 

I agree with your thoughts, OP.  Any cruise line that takes the approach, "no reason to suspect" is taking the wrong approach.  The correct approach, imo, should be, "suspect it is onboard and test and retest to confirm."

 

It is going to take major changes before I will trust that cruise lines will take the correct approach.  One change I would like to see is infectious disease specialists staffed permanently on every ship with the authority to order quarantines and lock downs.

[Been There, Planning That]

cbr663, 

I agree completely, much is at stake for any cruise line, but more is at stake when it comes to our health.

 

We have no plans to rebook three cancelled cruises in either the short or long term.

 

Ruth

[evandbob]

It's really a self defeating tool for the cruise lines to minimize, downplay or obfuscate the impact of this virus.  We have seen how countries and states here in the USA that rushed to resume business as usual have created even more of a disaster than just keeping restrictions in place.

 

It's like going 3/4 of the way around the monopoly board only having to return to go without getting paid.  Except that instead of a game, we are dealing in lives.  The cruise industry, despite their protestations that pax safety is their #1 priority blah blah blah, has repeatedly taken dubious actions that have jeopardized its customers.

[iancal]

Trust the cruise lines?   I believe that we should judge them by their past actions.  Especially the ones leading up to covid.

 

Why would I trust a cruise line any more that I would an automobile manufacturer?

Edited August 1, 2020 by iancal

[drsel]

I think that only Hurtigruten, which belongs to Norwegian, is to blame for having hastily restarted cruising.
We cannot fault all Cruise lines for the mistakes of a few

[Been There, Planning That]

4 minutes ago, drsel said:

I think that only Hurtigruten, which belongs to Norwegian, is to blame for having hastily restarted cruising.
We cannot fault all Cruise lines for the mistakes of a few

 

I agree their restart was a hasty one, but I fault their lack of transparency when crew were first identified as being sick as being the greater 'sin.' 

[davecttr]

34 minutes ago, drsel said:

I think that only Hurtigruten, which belongs to Norwegian, is to blame for having hastily restarted cruising.
We cannot fault all Cruise lines for the mistakes of a few

Hurtigruten is owned by TDR Capital, a private equity firm based in London

[drsel]

Oh sorry, it's a Norwegian cruise line, which does not belong to Norwegian cruise lines.

[chipmaster]

Cruiselines are in the business of maximum extraction of money from their passengers, is that an organization that you can trust totally.   Of course they want your return business and are regulated/governed by laws and between repeat customer satisfaction and abiding by regulations is all you can trust them with.

 

if they could get away with something they most surely will.

[clo]

1 hour ago, drsel said:

I think that only Hurtigruten, which belongs to Norwegian,

Nope.

 

TDR Capital

 

The two companies merged in March 2006 to form Hurtigruten Group ASA, and twelve months later the merged entity assumed the name Hurtigruten ASA. In 2012, the company headquarters was moved from Narvik to Tromsø. In 2015, the legal form of Hurtigruten was changed from ASA to AS. The company is now owned by TDR Capital.

 

Hurtigruten AS - Wikipedia

[clo]

1 hour ago, Been There, Planning That said:

 

I agree their restart was a hasty one, but I fault their lack of transparency when crew were first identified as being sick as being the greater 'sin.' 

I haven't looked to see their itinerary and had read that they were going to do a/some cruise to Hamburg with no stops. But they also do RT voyages along the Norwegian coast. Yes, for 'tourists' but also operated as a ferry for cargo and 'day trippers.' And as far as I know all their crew is Norwegian. Not making excuses one bit but they're not what many think of as a cruise ship, at least not along their coast.

[navybankerteacher]

When dealing with a pandemic, it would seem that an illness IS “reason to suspect” — a responsible operator would assume that there was COVID until it was proved the illness was not COVID, rather than what they seem to have done - assumed it was not COVID until it was proved not to be.

 

With that demonstrated mindset - there is very little reason to trust the line.

[Hlitner]

When it comes to COVID-19, we think the cruise lines have given folks more then enough cause to doubt the information released by the lines.  Consider that not only do we have the Hurtigruten issue, but it seems like TUI Cruises might have misled the public when it came to the recent cancellation of their first restart cruise on Mein Schiff 1.  Apparently when TUI announced the cancellation of the July Mein Schiff 1 cruise they had said it was because they were unable to fill certain crew positions in time to operate their scheduled July 31 cruise.  But it later turned out that at least 5 members of the crew had tested positive for COVID.   While this might have just been bad reporting one could be suspicious that TUI did not want any negative publicity prior to their initial short cruise on Mein Schiff 2.

 

Whether some of these cruises are restarting prematurely is something one can certainly debate.  But consider that COVID may well be around for many years and there is no guarantee that there will ever be a safe/effective vaccine with a high degree of efficacy.  So those that think the world should stop for COVID need to answer the simple question of "what happens if COVID is still around for a few more years?"

 

Hank

[cruisemom42]

5 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

But consider that COVID may well be around for many years and there is no guarantee that there will ever be a safe/effective vaccine with a high degree of efficacy.  So those that think the world should stop for COVID need to answer the simple question of "what happens if COVID is still around for a few more years?"

 

Hank

 

I take your point, Hank, but I feel the question should be more "What do the cruise lines plan to do when COVID cases occur on board?"

 

I want to know that they have a plan. With that information, I can then make up my own mind regarding the risk.

 

[Hlitner]

13 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

I take your point, Hank, but I feel the question should be more "What do the cruise lines plan to do when COVID cases occur on board?"

 

I want to know that they have a plan. With that information, I can then make up my own mind regarding the risk.

 

We agree and have posed that same question elsewhere on CC.  It also goes to the heart of several questions posed by the CDC and now open for public comment.  What scares me is that the CDC is also asking the questions rather than giving us the answers.

 

Hank

[Joebucks]

Too many of these issues are cruise line specific because they are made to be that way.

 

How do you know if you can trust ANY business? Local grocery store? Restaurant? A virus is far more sophisticated than just hitting your vacation spots and Trump rallies.

[K32682]

11 minutes ago, Joebucks said:

Too many of these issues are cruise line specific because they are made to be that way.

 

How do you know if you can trust ANY business? Local grocery store? Restaurant? A virus is far more sophisticated than just hitting your vacation spots and Trump rallies.

 

Local grocery stores are an accepted risk because I need food.  They and restaurants are controlled locally by public health authorities. There is more accountability than a cruise line that deliberately chose to isolate sick crew, claim the symptoms weren't COVID,  administer tests after the passengers were allowed to disembark and discover the four crew and 29 others were positive.  Meanwhile, those passengers are circulating in the community potentially spreading the virus.  If a local grocery store or restaurant covered up sick staff and didn't tell customers until well after the fact where I live they'd be shut down.

 

The behavior of cruise lines through the pandemic has left a lot to be desired.  They need to rebuild some trust with passengers and regulatory authorities and the recent conduct of Hurtigruten is a very poor start. 

 

Edited August 1, 2020 by K32682

[sfaaa]

Trust has nothing to do with it. Everyone was aware of the risk when they boarded. 

[Charles4515]

I haven't looked to see their itinerary and had read that they were going to do a/some cruise to Hamburg with no stops. But they also do RT voyages along the Norwegian coast. Yes, for 'tourists' but also operated as a ferry for cargo and 'day trippers.' And as far as I know all their crew is Norwegian. Not making excuses one bit but they're not what many think of as a cruise ship, at least not along their coast.

I read most of the crew was Filipino. The ship is an expedition ship that had been normally doing Antarctica cruise.


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[K32682]

1 hour ago, sfaaa said:

Trust has nothing to do with it. Everyone was aware of the risk when they boarded. 

 

It seems unlikely passengers would be aware there was a risk that the cruise line would isolate ill crew members, not tell anyone and only have them tested after the passengers had disembarked to potentially infect friends and family. 

 

It is reasonable to expect the ill crew members would be tested while everyone was still on the boat and that passengers and local health authorities be informed before the ship lands.  The ship isolated 4 crew but there are 36 infected crew members (and counting) and it is likely passengers are carrying the virus as well. 

 

It is also possible passengers from earlier cruises were infected too.

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/cruises/2020/08/01/hurtigruten-cruise-line-33-crew-infected-covid-19-norway/5562151002/

 

Potentially impacted passengers from two separate voyages had already disembarked a cruise on July 24 and the last cruise on Friday, leaving ample time for passengers to begin their voyages home and potentially spread the virus. 

 

Edited August 1, 2020 by K32682

[ldubs]

I'm repeating myself as well as others on this and many other threads.  Had this cruise line found passengers tested positive, then what would they have done?   If they had passengers with symptoms, what would they have done?  What would the port stop(s) have done?  There is an incredibly huge missing piece of information.  I actually have concerns that this cruise ship may have intentionally looked the other way with passenger health in order to avoid addressing this question.     

 

Right now I do not trust the cruise lines to handle this.   

Edited August 1, 2020 by ldubs

[lenquixote66]

1 hour ago, ldubs said:

I'm repeating myself as well as others on this and many other threads.  Had this cruise line found passengers tested positive, then what would they have done?   If they had passengers with symptoms, what would they have done?  What would the port stop(s) have done?  There is an incredibly huge missing piece of information.  I actually have concerns that this cruise ship may have intentionally looked the other way with passenger health in order to avoid addressing this question.     

 

Right now I do not trust the cruise lines to handle this.   

I agree 100%

[chipmaster]

1 hour ago, ldubs said:

I'm repeating myself as well as others on this and many other threads.  Had this cruise line found passengers tested positive, then what would they have done?   If they had passengers with symptoms, what would they have done?  What would the port stop(s) have done?  There is an incredibly huge missing piece of information.  I actually have concerns that this cruise ship may have intentionally looked the other way with passenger health in order to avoid addressing this question.     

 

Right now I do not trust the cruise lines to handle this.   

 

WSJ article was really good, says it all about cruise ship ethics where they dropped of what at the time was known high risk very sick and didn't tell anything... they did their legal minimum and nothing more.   

 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/cruise-ships-set-sail-knowing-the-deadly-risk-to-passengers-and-crew-11588346502

[ldubs]

4 hours ago, chipmaster said:

 

WSJ article was really good, says it all about cruise ship ethics where they dropped of what at the time was known high risk very sick and didn't tell anything... they did their legal minimum and nothing more.   

 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/cruise-ships-set-sail-knowing-the-deadly-risk-to-passengers-and-crew-11588346502

 

I can almost understand that back in the early days of the pandemic before the full extent was appreciated.  But after all we have been through and what we know now, for a cruise line to do something similar now is just incredible to me.  

Edited August 2, 2020 by ldubs